/ Cannabis and bouldering

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dan_dangled - on 30 Aug 2013
Cannabis and bouldering:

Now firstly I would like to recognise the general pot head boulderers perhaps do not spend time scrolling the forums of ukc, however I am not on any particular side just have an "each to their own" attitude.

So as a collective, what is everybodies actual view on this?
Jamie B - on 30 Aug 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:

Had a brief experimentation many moons ago.

On the plus side, I felt a deep and almost spiritual connection with the medium, the texture of the rock and the complexities of my body biodynamics.

On the down side, I got shit-scared if I was ever more than a foot off the ground. It only really worked on low-level traverses.
ThunderCat - on 30 Aug 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:
> Cannabis and bouldering:
>
> Now firstly I would like to recognise the general pot head boulderers perhaps do not spend time scrolling the forums of ukc, however I am not on any particular side just have an "each to their own" attitude.
>
> So as a collective, what is everybodies actual view on this?

I'm not really a climber at all. I do a bit of indoor stuff for fitness, but that's it. I enjoy it, but I'm crap at it :)

Long before I started 'climbing', I loved a spliff. Abso-f*cking-lutely loved it. But as I got older and more sensible I lost the resistance to it and even a small puff would send me massively paranoid and give me the fear.

So I wouldn't even try the two together now. It would ruin the experience.

But if I'd got into climbing at the same time as I was loving the spliffage, I think I might have actually enjoyed it....

ThunderCat - on 30 Aug 2013
In reply to ThunderCat:

Sorry if this was aimed at bouldering rather than climbing.
dan_dangled - on 30 Aug 2013
Well I suppose just on a personal level, unlike other sports I do not find it hinders my ability to perform. I chill, have a joint and state at a climb until I've pictured the moves I'm going to make. I just wondered If there was anyone that objected to this is all.
mgco3 - on 30 Aug 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:

Who wants to climb after toking up a spliff??

Forget the bouldering and lets order pizza..
balmybaldwin - on 30 Aug 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:

As long as you are subtle with it and arent skinning up in front of kids etc I cant see the problem.

its been a while for me, but I found it meant I did less bouldering, although performance wasnt hindered (i also didnt excel while stoned), so I tended to keep it more for the end of the session or back at the tent.
dan_dangled - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Well of course, but just the same as I would not roll and smoke a cig Infront of kids. This has surprised me to be honest, I thought there would be FAR more negative responses ha
ThunderCat - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> Well of course, but just the same as I would not roll and smoke a cig Infront of kids. This has surprised me to be honest, I thought there would be FAR more negative responses ha

I do miss a nice joint, but I really can't handle it anymore. I'm trying to remember the mindset and the feeling of being very focussed on what I was actually doing...and I do think it might have improved the climbing a bit. Maybe not the actual standard...but the experience.

Mind you, I'm not sure I'd be happy having a stoned belayer....

lowersharpnose - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:

A lifetime ago, I ended up setting off up a multi-pitch Extreme stoned. Just past the first pitch crux, I pulled on the ropes to check which one went through the last bit of gear and accidentally pulled it out. Right, best put a nut in. Got the nuts off my harness and promptly dropped them. I didn't panic and climbed 30' up to the peg belay. I cannot recommend it, but, on the other hand, I am quite glad I have had the experience.
Baron Weasel - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to dan_dangled: I definately happens amoung the climbing elite. I have seen a famous climber roll a doobie then onsight E7. There was also the case of Chris Sharma testing +ve after winning the bouldering world cup.

As Barmy said, just don't skin up in front of kids ;-)
Kimono - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Baron Weasel:
no, but its alright to drink in front of them...

Smoking and climbing is one thing...we used to take acid and mountain bike.
Now that is quite a mixture of exhilaration and fear :)
SI - profile removed on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:
>
> So as a collective, what is everybodies actual view on this?

I've always thought of bouldering as a nice way to fill the time while you get stoned in the countryside.
Fishmate - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:

A couple of my partners do during, myself only after. One friend claims to climb far better after a smoke. Personally, I find I lose connectivity with the rock and much of the prerequisite interest. I insist on it after though with a beer.
Mattdixclimb on 31 Aug 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to dan_dangled: smoking pot believe it or not is a sports enhancing drug which is band. it is proven to reduce that latic acid build up in your muscle. so in theory it is cheating but there are no rules governing climbing outside so you really can't call it cheating. what do you think
Robert Durran - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:
> (In reply to dan_dangled) smoking pot believe it or not is a sports enhancing drug which is band. it is proven to reduce that latic acid build up in your muscle, so in theory it is cheating.

In which case pasta is also cheating and I shall not be claiming the routes I did today.
Mattdixclimb on 31 Aug 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to Robert Durran: here is the list mate its a banned substance http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/World_Anti-Doping_Program/WADP-Prohibited-list/2013/WADA-Prohibite...

its under S8 some funny reason i couldn't find [pasta on the list
Robert Durran - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:

> (In reply to Robert Durran) here is the list mate its a banned substance.

The list is not relevant (obviously) to proper climbing. Didn't Sharma show the way by stopping doing competitions so that he could use cannabis?

TheDrunkenBakers - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to mgco3:
> (In reply to dan_dangled)
>
> Who wants to climb after toking up a spliff??
>
> Forget the bouldering and lets order pizza..

You tw*t, everyone knows its chinese.

Mattdixclimb on 31 Aug 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Mattdixclimb)
>
> [...]
>
> The list is not relevant (obviously) to proper climbing. Didn't Sharma show the way by stopping doing competitions so that he could use cannabis?

i believe sharma has been stripped off all the titles he's won aswell its cheating mate but if your ok with cheating thats down to you and your conscious mate
Robert Durran - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> [...]
>
> i believe sharma has been stripped off all the titles he's won aswell its cheating mate but if your ok with cheating thats down to you and your conscious mate.

In which case I think it's very healthy for climbing that he is in absolutely no way considered a Lance Armstrong like pariah.

Obviously, when you say cheating, you only mean in competitions I take it.
Mattdixclimb on 31 Aug 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to Robert Durran: well no it enhances your performance so no matter where it is its cheating, i'm not going to go up to him and say that the 9a he just did didn't count its down to the persons conscious. theres no rules governing climbing outside, but personally i wouldn't take a performance enhancing because i think its cheating and to be honest it is really cheating init!
Mattdixclimb on 31 Aug 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to Robert Durran: really what i should say is the induviaul is cheating themselves by taking a performance enhancing drug
Robert Durran - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) well no it enhances your performance so no matter where it is its cheating.

So does pasta. And broccoli. So you consider them cheating too I take it.
Jamie B - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:

Have you actually smoked any cannabis? It's not a performance-enhancing drug, if anything the opposite.

Mattdixclimb on 31 Aug 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to Robert Durran: ok is pasta a banned substance ( i'll answer that no as it does not slow the heart rate down and block the latic acid build up like canabis does) and i personally do not smoke cannabis so in thoery a particular route or boulder problem would be easier for a person who is the same fitness/ skill level as me who takes a performance. its morally wrong.
Mattdixclimb on 31 Aug 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to Jamie B: oh believe me I know people who perform better after a joint. its actually quite suprising it gives them more guts more than anything.
Robert Durran - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) ok is pasta a banned substance ( i'll answer that no as it does not slow the heart rate down and block the latic acid build up like canabis does) and i personally do not smoke cannabis so in thoery a particular route or boulder problem would be easier for a person who is the same fitness/ skill level as me who takes a performance. its morally wrong.

And if I eat lots of pasta (and other food) and you don't, I'll find the boulder problem easier than you (and not just because I'm stronger than you). Therefore eating pasta and other food is morally wrong.

Mattdixclimb on 31 Aug 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to Robert Durran: so its ok to take drugs and its wrong to eat food your saying !!!
Coel Hellier - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:

> And if I eat lots of pasta (and other food) and you don't, I'll find the boulder problem easier than you ...

Pasta, that's ok but not the real stuff. I gather that all the best climbers (including Adam Ondra) regularly take dihydrogen monoxide in various drinks.
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Mattdixclimb on 31 Aug 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to Coel Hellier : dihydrogen monoxide is a legal substance at the moment so its fine you use it such as pasta is legal sorry i'm trying to get accross not only canibis is illegal its a banned substances and shouldn't be used as a performance enhancing substance and Robert Durran seems to be promoting its use
Baron Weasel - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier: I confess to addiction to DiHydrogen MonOxide. I wish I could give it up because it makes you weigh something like 99.6% more, but it's just too addictive...
Robert Durran - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> [...]
>
> Pasta, that's ok but not the real stuff. I gather that all the best climbers (including Adam Ondra) regularly take dihydrogen monoxide in various drinks.

Obviously all actual chemicals should be banned. Ondra should be stripped of all his 9b's.

Baron Weasel - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Baron Weasel: Sometimes it gets diluted with alcohol though, which reduces its harmful effects...
Mattdixclimb on 31 Aug 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to Robert Durran: i dought adam ondra actually takes dihydrogen monoxide anyway as its actually very posionous ( although it seems to be in some baby food products and bubble bath). don't turn this around after you where promoting the use of cannabis!!!!
Baron Weasel - on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) i doubt Adam Ondra actually takes dihydrogen monoxide anyway as its actually very poisonous

He's an addict too, I'm not saying he injects per say - however I'm willing to bet that if he injured himself that the doctors would administer it intravenously (just in case his addiction was not fed and met).
Timmd on 31 Aug 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) ok is pasta a banned substance ( i'll answer that no as it does not slow the heart rate down and block the latic acid build up like canabis does) and i personally do not smoke cannabis so in thoery a particular route or boulder problem would be easier for a person who is the same fitness/ skill level as me who takes a performance. its morally wrong.

Tea is supposed to help with physical and mental energy. I think the point being made by others (perhaps obtusely) is that lots of things can affect physical performance.

Cannabis might help with preventing lactic acid build up, but I'm not sure how helpful it would be for being alert and full of energy, and if smoked it would reduce the amount of oxygen which the lungs can transport to the bloodstream and then the muscles, through gumming up the lungs.

I'm no scientist, but cannabis probably isn't something I'd be very concerned about from a moral point of view. Quite a lot less than other drugs used by sports cheats that is.
Mattdixclimb on 31 Aug 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to Timmd: yeah but i'm trying to get accross that its illegal and it should be used anyway even its for performance although its on the wada bnanned list for performing enhancing drugs so its wrong flat out. its a beta blocker so it is cheating really in my mind i'm not saying you should see it as cheating. promoting its use is wrong as you can see in the above comments
dan_dangled - on 01 Sep 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:

You are the madest mother fu**er I have ever encountered hahahaha. You did not need to tell us you don't smoke as that is evident by your clear lack of knowledge.

Smoking and climbing just go together, the comment about a stoned belayer made me laugh though. I agree with that to an extent, however if climbing with a regular partner it doesn't matter stoned or not. Although I tend to boulder so no worries about anyone being too stoned ha.
aln - on 01 Sep 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:
> (In reply to Timmd) yeah but i'm trying to get accross

You could get your point across better if your postings made sense.
Mattdixclimb on 01 Sep 2013 - 5ac9387b.bb.sky.com
In reply to aln: what don't you understand that its illegal!!
puppythedog on 01 Sep 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb: But you are not only making the point that it is illegal. You are also making the point that it is morally wrong because it is performance enhancing. Robert has separated the two arguments and is dealing with simply the performance enhancing aspect.
His point seems to be (taking the legality aside) that many things are performance enhancing, that cannabis is banned in competitions but that competitions are only a small aspect of climbing and that there are no rules in outside climbing (except being honest). No-one is cheating when they climb outside unless they lie.
He is also not promoting its use merely challenging your view of its use.
LakesWinter on 01 Sep 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:
> (In reply to Mattdixclimb)
>
> You are the madest mother fu**er I have ever encountered hahahaha. You did not need to tell us you don't smoke as that is evident by your clear lack of knowledge.
>

Yeah but he is a lover, worker and fighter or something like that.

Baron Weasel - on 01 Sep 2013
In reply to puppythedog: I remember this guy getting in trouble for a +ve cannabis test. Personally, if it makes him this good he should be made to have a spliff before competing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McThDshEgU0
dollydog - on 01 Sep 2013
In reply to dan_dangled: hi,i lost a close friend who would roll a spliff after a climb;he was killed climbing down.
Timmd on 01 Sep 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb: I do get where you're coming from, but I'm still not sure it's that big a deal. From a helping performance point of view that is.

If I'm working outdoors on not a lot of sleep, I struggle if I forget my tea bags for the day. If caffeine isn't banned I think that maybe should be too, as it does affect how the body functions. There's been things written about it in Cycling Plus a few times, about not having a coffee habit being best for if you want to benefit from it on a sportive, for example.

Robert Durran - on 01 Sep 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:
> (In reply to aln) what don't you understand that its illegal!!

The banned substance list includes substances, some of which are legal (caffeine etc) and other illegal (steroids, cannabis etc). The list exists in order to create a level playing field at a level which protects competitors from the temptation to use the substances at dangerous levels in order to gain an advantage. It is probably immoral to cheat by using banned substances in competetitive sports, including competition climbing, to which the list applies. The list does not apply in everyday life including normal climbing. The only question of morality in everyday life (and normal climbing) is whether you think it is immoral to use the illegal ones and many people do not consider cannabis use immoral despite being illegal.
TheDrunkenBakers - on 01 Sep 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) really what i should say is the induviaul is cheating themselves by taking a performance enhancing drug.

Hahaha, weed? Performance enhancing? Funny.

The only thing this would help would be in chocolate or sausage roll eating competitions. (or chocolate and s.roll eating comps). I wonder if food eating comps do testing on munchie enhancing drugs.

Anyhoo, all it would take would be a couple of tokes on a decent bifter and i think bouldering would be out. Sleeping or grinning would definitely be in.
dereke12000 - on 03 Sep 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:

Many years ago I used to work in forestry, and the whole crew used to toke (the job interview consisted of asking about my attitude to weed). It definitely helped you to focus when you were felling a 30' tree, and the bits in between were a great laugh too...

I'm not sure how it would help my climbing now as I can imagine the scary moments becoming epics.
tlm - on 03 Sep 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb:
> (In reply to Timmd) yeah but i'm trying to get accross that its illegal and it should be used anyway even its for performance although its on the wada bnanned list for performing enhancing drugs so its wrong flat out.

Having a picnic outside the houses of parliament is illegal, so is that wrong flat out, or is the law wrong? Where do laws even come from? Are they created by god? Is it fine to drink and climb because alcohol is legal?
tlm - on 03 Sep 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:

I don't really care about the moral side of it, but nowadays, I do worry about the health aspects (throat and mouth cancer, and burning all the cilia off the inside of my lungs). Seeing as I get asthma and watched my dad die in front of me from emphysema, I'd rather not. Climbing is enough fun on its own for me...
Timmd on 03 Sep 2013
In reply to tlm:
> (In reply to dan_dangled)
>
> I don't really care about the moral side of it, but nowadays, I do worry about the health aspects (throat and mouth cancer, and burning all the cilia off the inside of my lungs). Seeing as I get asthma and watched my dad die in front of me from emphysema, I'd rather not. Climbing is enough fun on its own for me...

Good post.
cheek to the rock - on 03 Sep 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb: I dont wanna climb with you,you sound like a boring fuddy duddy or a copper
John1923 - on 04 Sep 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:

I regularly smell weed at sport crags and boulders. Just don't do it in front of children.

If you are interested in the real health the former chair of the government's advisory council for the misuse of drugs wrote a book, and has a blog. http://drugscience.org.uk/
ckms - on 05 Sep 2013
Wesley Orvis - on 05 Sep 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:

Personally i would blame the weed for my slow prgression through the grading system, it makes you question the trust you have in your protection a lot more than someone who doesn't smoke it.
jkarran - on 05 Sep 2013
In reply to dan_dangled:

> So as a collective, what is everybodies actual view on this?

As an individual I don't have a view on this, so far as I'm concerned it's none of my business what people do or don't smoke while they boulder.

I'd prefer they weren't too impaired by the time they drove home but that's driving not bouldering.
jk
USBRIT - on 06 Sep 2013
In reply to dan_dangled: As you may or may not know weed is legal in Colorado and actually I once met a climber from there that did not induldge.A friend I used to new route with on multi pitch sandstone climbs led on sight up to 6a/b with a drill on his back placing bolts and other pro from free stances and smoked at every belay ...and never seemed upset about taking a few big whippers. Certainly not something I could do ,but it seems its different tokes for different folks.
1poundSOCKS - on 06 Sep 2013
In reply to USBRIT: From my limited experience of climbing in the US, weed smoking seemed a lot more prevalent amongst climbers than in the UK. I only objected to it once, when a climber who had been smoking weed before leading a route, then unclipped my sling from the belay we were sharing, rather than his own. He informed me very calmly not to move, before he reattached me. Maybe it wasn't the weed, but it can't have helped.
kwaidy - on 06 Sep 2013
In reply to dan_dangled: i love to get stoned and boulder. Its great.... but can make me lazy and increase my fears . .
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kuju - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Mattdixclimb: Speaking as someone who has worked in substance use research for the past 9 years..I can absolutely assure you cannabis has no performance-enhancing properties.

And image and performance-enhancing drugs are my particular area of research interest...although I have done work around cannabis use too.


As for the cheating debate; cheating implies rules. You can only cheat rules....if you're not climbing competitively..how are you cheating? What do you lose from the experience when climbing using performance enhancers that you get when you climb without them?

You can argue a moral standpoint based on the wholly abritrary legal situation; but that's a moot point at best. Like most moral debates it comes down to opinions. There's no hard facts that determine whether a moral standpoint is "right".


Personally I wouldn't use cannabis before climbing as it would negatively affect concentration and cardiovascular function. I would use pasta though and gain the performance-enhancing benefits of increased glycogen stores. I would use beta-alanine...a perfectly safe and legal sports supplement that ...buffers lactic acid. I would use creatine - a perfectly safe sports supplement that enables slightly longer bursts of energy in short, power filled problems. I would use whey protein for recovery. I would use coffe to enhance my concentration. I would use jelly sweets, fruit and nuts for instant top up of key macro nutrients whilst climbing.

Presumably..since those are all legal....the very well evidenced performance enhancing benfeits of them all would be absolutely fine. Bearing in mind there is a HUGE amount of evidence showing all of those offer performance enahncing benefits vs basically none for cannabis in this context.

SO either your moral standpoint is based on the legality....which seems a poor position but each to their own. OR...your moral standpoint is based purely on the performance enhancing aspect..in which case everything in my list should be banned.
duchessofmalfi - on 10 Sep 2013
I think it is fine for bouldering but when doing routes it should be moderated to the level where the climbers can still tie a knot without being distracted by snacks...
BossHog - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to dan_dangled: Gettin baked and climbing is the one. Most the routes iv done iv been at least slightly high, keep your mind strong puff on that bong!!

I agree with a previous post I go bouldering as something to do when out in the outdoors getting baked.
StuartCJones - on 10 Sep 2013
Bouldering aside, sometimes you need a joint after taking speed to get up a mountain.

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