/ Sabotage at the Etape Cymru

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Tom Hutton - on 09 Sep 2013
dale1968 - on 09 Sep 2013
highclimber - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton: Some people are reckless dicks. good job no one was injured. How did you do, Tom?
Tom Hutton - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to highclimber: Not bad, 6hrs 24mns which was way better than I'd hoped. Feeling it this morning though... Thanks for asking and hope to catch up this week?


steelbru - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton:
I assume the reason for doing this was some sort of protest by locals for the closed roads ?

Does anyone know how long roads were closed for ?

I absolutely oppose what they have done, but I certainly wouldn't be very happy if I was told I couldn't leave my house in my car for a number of hours on a weekend day just because some people want to go cycling past my house. If it was just an hour, maybe 2 max, then people should be able to work round that, but if it was 4,5,6 or more hours then I don't think that is acceptable personally

Do these events need to be on closed roads ?



IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to steelbru: I'm surprised that was the case.. assumed closed exept for access would be the way it is done?
highclimber - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton: Yeah, sure. off all week so trying to get out as much as possible.
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to steelbru:
> (In reply to Tom Hutton)
> I assume the reason for doing this was some sort of protest by locals for the closed roads ?
>
> Does anyone know how long roads were closed for ?
>
> I absolutely oppose what they have done, but I certainly wouldn't be very happy if I was told I couldn't leave my house in my car for a number of hours on a weekend day just because some people want to go cycling past my house. If it was just an hour, maybe 2 max, then people should be able to work round that, but if it was 4,5,6 or more hours then I don't think that is acceptable personally

The whole attraction of this event is that it is closed roads.

The local paper reckons this event put a million pounds through local businesses, I'd say for an area like North wales that relies heavily on Tourism then closing roads for 1 day a year is worth it. Your profile says you're a runner, are you also opposed to events like the London Marathon that are run on closed roads?
>
> Do these events need to be on closed roads ?

a lakeland climber on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to steelbru:

I think that this is one of only three cycling events in the country open to the public (as opposed to licensed races) that has closed roads.

I don't know the exact period of road closure, probably variable since those roads near the start would be able to open once the sweeper had been past. I'd imagine that the organisers and police would have worked out a route and consequent closures to minimise disruption to residents. However there are inevitably going to be some properties that are going to "suffer" more.

If it happened to me then I'd either make sure I was out for the day or chill and watch the cyclists go by. I do realise that not everyone can chill and of course has to be able to do what they want when they want.

ALC
elliptic on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

"Closed except for access" equals "not closed" when you're barreling down a descent on the wrong side of the road.

These types of event don't *need* to be on closed roads - in fact the great majority of sportives aren't - but from the riders point of view it transforms the whole experience.

It's great to have the opportunity to do something properly every now and again.
Rigid Raider - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton:

It happened to me on the Cape Argus race in Cape Town near a place called Capri Village; at the end of a long fast straight I suddenly heard something going tick tick tick in my front tyre but stupidly I ignored it. Round a corner and 100 yards along in a rough-looking Cape Coloured area the tyre went flat to my utter disbelief. There was a shiny drawing pin, the same that was in the tyres of a couple of other competitors near me. A Police car was cruising up and down keeping an eye on things and I found myself surrounded by a crowd of 6 or 8 enthusiastic small boys who grabbed my tube and handed it to the biggest of them.... who had about a dozen inner tubes looped around his shoulder!

I guess bicycle inner tube makes good catapault rubber.... go figure!
a lakeland climber on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber:

Having done a sportive yesterday on "open" roads, I don't think that every sportive needs to be or should be on closed roads, it would cause too much disruption. They are only going to work where alternative routes are available for the majority of residents along the route.

ALC
johncoxmysteriously - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to steelbru:

> just because some people want to go cycling past my house

Bit more to it than that, though, isnít there? Estimated to put £1 million into the local economy, I read.

Always amazes me how much the more insular elements of the Welsh population hate money, when provided by tourists.

jcm
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to elliptic: But that could be a fallen cyclist on the road.. or sheep.. deer.. so you'd never go round a blind bend absolutely flat out.. would you?"
balmybaldwin - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to elliptic) But that could be a fallen cyclist on the road.. or sheep.. deer.. so you'd never go round a blind bend absolutely flat out.. would you?"

Of course not, however you would go round the corner not worrying about what side of the road you are on.

And cars coming the other way tend to be moving faster towards you than deer, sheep or fallen cyclists
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: I think thats slightly different.

London marathon means you can walk and use other transport.. thats different to being well off the routes in some welsh valley..
johncoxmysteriously - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to elliptic) But that could be a fallen cyclist on the road.. or sheep.. deer.. so you'd never go round a blind bend absolutely flat out.. would you?"

You ever watched the Tour de France?!

jcm
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Well I'd assume cars would be very slow knowing bikes are on the route..

Thats what happens in many road races. Few are properly closed like London.

Even the Snowdon race the road isn't actually closed.. just delays so people can come through and did one year.
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> [...]
>
> You ever watched the Tour de France?!
>
> jcm

I know.. I'm guessing the risks taken by Wiggins et al is greater than the average sportive cyclist.. remember what a sportive is..

steelbru - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> (In reply to steelbru)
> [...]
>
> Your profile says you're a runner, are you also opposed to events like the London Marathon that are run on closed roads?
> [...]
I've never run a road race on closed roads, steer well clear of mass participation events like London Marathon, and prefer small local events which are always on open roads.

ads.ukclimbing.com
Tom Hutton - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton: I for one only entered because it was closed roads... It's a great experience.

I also rode the Sella Bike Day in the Dolomites this year on closed roads. Interesting out there as the first year they ran this it caused all kinds of problems, now it's one of the biggest days on the tourist calendar.

For those asking how the closures work, they are on a rolling basis and they start at 7.00am so most won't be bothered for the first few hours anyway (although there were loads out cheering even that early!)

It's marvellous to see the revenue the event brings in but it would bring a lot more in if the hotels etc embraced it better.

We ended up driving over from Llanberis that morning - 4am start - just so we could get a decent breakfast. The standard hotel early breakfast of cornflakes, a flask of stewed coffee and some tepid orange juice isn't the way to fuel a 140km bike ride.

In Italy, all the businesses were totally set up for it.

Fantastic event though and will be back next year.

IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK: And TBH if I was going to be told to stay in for hours so someone can operate a commercial event to make money.. i.e. making financial gain.. I'd expect compensation tbh...

I'm surprised that doesn't happen. Even running races have now started paying marshalls for the professionally organised events.. because it started to dawn on people that they were volunteers for a guy making a good amount of money..
wynaptomos - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to steelbru:
> (In reply to Tom Hutton)
> I assume the reason for doing this was some sort of protest by locals for the closed roads ?
>

I don't know but I suspect you may be mistaking them for people who actually have a brain cell
Tom Hutton - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton:
This is so typical of this forum: You can post about some abhorrent and likely criminal behaviour putting members of 'our community' at risk of injury and get a bunch of replies attempting to justify it...

Out of here...
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton: We used a hotel in Llandudno for the World Trail running Championships.. I think was GB, French and Italians in our hotel.. we asked for an early breakfast and it was such a hassle.. in the end we got toast and honey.. but some wanted Porridge. They agreed but then on the morning refused...

Just incredible how unaccomadating to good business they were...
Hat Dude on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton:

There seems to be far more of a vociferous element who oppose closed road events when they include bikes. there was a fuss about the Henley Half Ironman last weekend.

There are way more running events with closed roads and they don't appear to stir up anything like the opposition.
steelbru - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton:
> (In reply to Tom Hutton)
> This is so typical of this forum: You can post about some abhorrent and likely criminal behaviour putting members of 'our community' at risk of injury and get a bunch of replies attempting to justify it...
>
> Out of here...

Hope that wasn't aimed at me ? I'll think you'll find I said I totally opposed what they had done. I just wanted some discussion on whether people felt it was acceptable to being unable to leave their own house because of a sporting event.
a lakeland climber on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin) Well I'd assume cars would be very slow knowing bikes are on the route..

Ha ha, you wish. Most sportives have signage to varying levels but it's not unusual to find a car coming towards you on a single track road that has been signed as being used for the event when there's a better (for cars) alternative route.

Of course they (the drivers) aren't doing anything wrong or illegal, just not using common sense: "Oh, there's a cycle event on today coming down this lane, I'll use it rather than the A-road just over there". Then they get annoyed that they are being held up by cyclists!

ALC
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to IainRUK) And TBH if I was going to be told to stay in for hours so someone can operate a commercial event to make money.. i.e. making financial gain.. I'd expect compensation tbh...
>
> I'm surprised that doesn't happen. Even running races have now started paying marshalls for the professionally organised events.. because it started to dawn on people that they were volunteers for a guy making a good amount of money..

It may be a commercial event but it brings a million quid to the local economy, maybe you could ask all the B and B owners and all the cafe and restaurant owners for a share of thier profits!
Would you complain about a road closure for resurfacing because the contracters are making money out of it.
You never know some of the people who came for a day may have visited for the first time and then decide they want to come back for a weeks holiday.

IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton: I don't think anyone is justifying it. Understanding why people are pissed off is the way to stop it.

Bloody awful they did it, literally could have killed people..

But if you look at why they are pissed off.. you can then try to ensure they are happy with events next year and reduce the chance of it happening again. Either compensation for those locked in.. or even a donation to some local charity, community account..

Running is now almost off roads.. even 'road' races are often not on roads any more becuase only big events can afford policing costs and closures are rare. Snowdonia marathon must be the only one and thats for a short time as possible. The route changed the other year because coaches were forcing through runners descending Gwynant and it was bloody dangerous. But the route is now far better and safer.

But thats a quality organiser, who came from a running background. The current set up was dangerous. Drivers weren't happy sharing the road. The race relied on good will of drivers to be courteous but that didn't happen, so it was either shut the road, with huge costs and inconvenience or look for an alternative... by the end of gwynant the field is slimmed down enough that runners and cars can co-exist.
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: Community gain.. road resurfaced..
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK: So there's no community gain to a million quid going through local business's !!!!
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Hat Dude:
> (In reply to Tom Hutton)
>
> There seems to be far more of a vociferous element who oppose closed road events when they include bikes. there was a fuss about the Henley Half Ironman last weekend.
>
> There are way more running events with closed roads and they don't appear to stir up anything like the opposition.

Are there? I can think of very few rural events which close roads? Snowdonia marathon shuts the pass. I can't think of one more off hand outside of big city events.
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: If you are with those businesses... of course there is indirect gains.

Look you seem to think I'm opposed. I'm not, but I think we are seeing more and more commercial events.

Look at rat race this weekene.. Man Versus snowdon.. 100 a runner.. 1000 runners.. 100,000... landowners won't get a penny yet its their land ran over. I think its predictable you will see a backlash towards large scale commercial events where others are inconvenienced.

You may disagree.. but it happens.. and drop the !!!!! I've competed in more events than most here so fully aware of the practicalities and issues involved, running and biking.
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to steelbru:
> (In reply to Tom Hutton)
> [...]
>
> Hope that wasn't aimed at me ? I'll think you'll find I said I totally opposed what they had done. I just wanted some discussion on whether people felt it was acceptable to being unable to leave their own house because of a sporting event.

Either or rules apply on UKC.. either for or against.. no middle ground fence sitting looking at the underlying reasons.. you'll learn.
Hat Dude on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

Several 10ks & Half Marathons around here which go out of the towns into the countryside and which close off main routes through smallish town centres.

Admittedly the amount of road closed is a lot less than for a 100 mile sportive.
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Hat Dude: I'm surprised.. most small races won't close roads. They will have caution runners. But road closure fees are huge.. for a race with a 10-20 quid entry fee.. 100-200 runners it just can't happen. Its why we lost so many classic races.

Even Snowdonia marathon, probably biggest road race in North Wales only actually shuts the pass (for maybe 1 hour) and now the highstreet in llanberis.

Llandudno 10 miler is now 4 x 2.5 mile loops and I think its only sections which are closed. But no great inconvenience.



IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK: I think it may also depends on who is organising.. a local, so money stays in the area, or a bigger event organiser.. so money exits the area.

Maybe it shouldn't but that was in issue in North Wales.. I was at a meeting for one big event and the councillor asked 'what do we get'.. the guy said.. and he said 'no what do WE get'. meaning personal payment for being involved at all.. and he was quite clear that he didn't want a company coming in making money and leaving..

sleavesley on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton: ironically 'cock bank' was one of the areas and this had just been resurfaced in part due to the event. This area is a lane so only impacts on the few people that live down it, who were waving on competitors in the main.
I witnessed a load of people with punctures (i didn't ride the whole thing but rode down the lane and did a different circuit as I had work so couldn't commit to paying and doing the whole event).
I did wonder at the time why they were getting punctures though! This would have been about 7.30am too for reference.

This part of the circuit did remain closed all day as it was the return journey after a loop back to the start/finish line.
From what I saw prior and during the event was forewarning of the event and times and also very good rod closures and marshalling.

I think North West Wales could benefit from the money invested in the local area running an event like this.

And there are quite a few people in every area that do not reflect on the vast majority of people that can see the benefits to the local area and people coming back that enjoyed cycling and spending time around Wrexham/llangollen/Ruthin etc.
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut) If you are with those businesses... of course there is indirect gains.

Maybe you need an economics lesson. B and B owner has a good weekened, B and B owner spends more in Butchers, Supermarket etc. Butcher spends more with local farmer,local farmer employs local workers, Supermarket employs more locals who in turn spend more with local business's etc etc etc etc
>

>
> You may disagree.. but it happens.. and drop the !!!!! I've competed in more events than most here so fully aware of the practicalities and issues involved, running and biking.

And yet you think you should be compensated for a bit of disruption for 1 morning out of 365 despite all the benefits it brings !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



ads.ukclimbing.com
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: Don't be a prick..

Look how many farms/houses were inconvenienced..

Go and give the locals a lesson. There is clearly bad feeling in the area about the race. Were the locals consulted? Were they offered any thing?

Free entry? 50 quid?

You can say they shouldn't be upset, but they are.. so the options are ignore and leave the bad feeling and this happens next year.. or look for a solution to appease those feeling aggrieved...


IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to sleavesley: What AAH events (major NW event organisers) do seems text book. Loads of press. Clear benefits to locals in terms of money in, they undertake studies of the commercial gain, they are all locals, from a cross section of society. Build up events slowly, even don't expect a profit for x number of years. So far they seemed to have got past most, but as far as I know they don't do many long term road closures for their sportiffs.. one on Anglesey and one in Snowdonia. TBH I don't know how that would go down in a rural area for a long duration. The marathon closes for a short period.

sleavesley on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK: the two areas that this happened in are pretty remote of 'locals'.
If you look at cock bank on a map you will see it doesn't really have much of an impact on people's travel. The main road running through from Marchwiel towards Overton was still open with a stop/go man in place for the crossing.

The other area too near Ruithin is not on a main thoroughfare. I live locally and signs were in place prior and a cone was placed on all houses down the lanes with the details on of the event and road closure.

The year before signs were removed and replaced in other areas. There are some not so nice locals living in the area!
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> [...]
>
> Ha ha, you wish. Most sportives have signage to varying levels but it's not unusual to find a car coming towards you on a single track road that has been signed as being used for the event when there's a better (for cars) alternative route.
>
> Of course they (the drivers) aren't doing anything wrong or illegal, just not using common sense: "Oh, there's a cycle event on today coming down this lane, I'll use it rather than the A-road just over there". Then they get annoyed that they are being held up by cyclists!
>
> ALC

I think you are right.. some people want conflict with cyclists.. cars v bikes is just a huge issue and maybe this could be an issue here. I cycle every day in cycle friendly city in Germany.. the general awareness, courteousness of cyclists and cars to each other is incomparable to the UK. Its hard to see how it can go back to being like it is here.
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to sleavesley:
> (In reply to IainRUK) the two areas that this happened in are pretty remote of 'locals'.
> If you look at cock bank on a map you will see it doesn't really have much of an impact on people's travel. The main road running through from Marchwiel towards Overton was still open with a stop/go man in place for the crossing.
>
> The other area too near Ruithin is not on a main thoroughfare. I live locally and signs were in place prior and a cone was placed on all houses down the lanes with the details on of the event and road closure.
>
> The year before signs were removed and replaced in other areas. There are some not so nice locals living in the area!

Moving signs is sadly all too common. It happened for one of the road races near there a few years ago...
sleavesley on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK: I think not coming back through the same area would be better so that the road only closes for a shorter period.

http://humanrace.co.uk/events/cycling/etape-cymru this is the route and in residents info you can see the timings for road closures.
Eric9Points - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> [...]
>
> Maybe you need an economics lesson. B and B owner has a good weekened, B and B owner spends more in Butchers, Supermarket etc. Butcher spends more with local farmer,local farmer employs local workers, Supermarket employs more locals who in turn spend more with local business's etc etc etc etc
> [...]
>

Which may well be little compensation for someone who has to get to work when the road's closed. All people see is inconvenience and the bloke that owns the cafe or the petrol station earning a few more quid.

> [...]
>
> And yet you think you should be compensated for a bit of disruption for 1 morning out of 365 despite all the benefits it brings !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

..and why not? If the area is going to benefit by such a huge amount of money then why shouldn't those inconvenienced by the disruption it causes get a little direct compensation?
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut) Don't be a prick..

Nice!
>
> Look how many farms/houses were inconvenienced..

Very few compared to what went on with the Olympics and the recent ride London Event. And the Locals there didn't chuck tacks on the road!
>
> Go and give the locals a lesson. There is clearly bad feeling in the area about the race. Were the locals consulted? Were they offered any thing?

They were offered the same as anyone else near an event like this.
>
> Free entry? 50 quid?

Is north wales a special case compared to the South East or maybe Newcastle with the Great north Run or |Glasgow when the commonwealth games start
>
> You can say they shouldn't be upset, but they are.. so the options are ignore and leave the bad feeling and this happens next year.. or look for a solution to appease those feeling aggrieved...

Appease people who endanger lives by throwing tacks on a road? I don't think any amount of explaining would work,



yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut)
> [...]
>
> Which may well be little compensation for someone who has to get to work when the road's closed. All people see is inconvenience and the bloke that owns the cafe or the petrol station earning a few more quid.
>
> [...]
>
> ..and why not? If the area is going to benefit by such a huge amount of money then why shouldn't those inconvenienced by the disruption it causes get a little direct compensation?

Are you really so short sighted?

steelbru - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to sleavesley:
Oh wow, that's worse than I thought it would be - 10 hours almost in some areas !!

Think you're right, it would surely cause less problems if it was a circular route rather than out and back.
a lakeland climber on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

I don't think the instance I mentioned is deliberately confrontational, just that some people don't seem to think beyond the immediate situation.

Earlier this year I did the Etape du Dales, one of the steeper climbs is the Coal Road leading over the moor from Garsdale Head station to Dent station. When I got there you could see a line of cyclists inching their way up the 25% gradient even before you turned off the main road. Now this is classic single track road so it's going to be hard work getting past one cyclist let alone 100 but there were still drivers insistent on taking the road. Now admittedly the alternative routes are significantly longer in terms of distance but common sense should kick in and drivers realise that it might not be the best route on that day.

Of course one car overtook me just before the summit and then had to pull in on the descent as I caught him up again! I'm not a particularly fast descender either.

ALC
FrankBooth - on 09 Sep 2013
I was born and grew up in North Wales (but now live in the Midlands) and love going back, but there's a local mentality that I still find difficult to hack - and unfortunately, lessons in local economics would be wasted.
shaun stephens - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to steelbru: any other country nwould be proud for this sort of event to happen and not have people complaining that they might have to have a wee bit of a change in their routines.
Eric9Points - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> (In reply to Eric9Points)
> [...]
>
> Are you really so short sighted?

Could you answer my question please?
a lakeland climber on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to steelbru:

Looking at the roads and closure times the only really bad one is the one through the Eglwyseg Valley as there's no real alternative to that road.

I see they had a sweep vehicle - maybe they should also have a minimum speed vehicle, if it passes you then you are on open roads again.

Most open road sportives attempt to spread the load by only letting a small number of riders set off every two or three minutes, obviously this only really has a huge effect close to the start point but does mean that the riders are thinly spaced quite quickly. However this does mean extended periods where cyclists are on the road. Not sure if the Etape Cymru was staggered or mass start, the web site says "start time 7am".

ALC
ebygomm - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber:

I wonder what OnePlanet at Llandegla thought of having their entrance closed for most of the day?
neilh - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton:
Is this what cyclists were doing yesterday up and down bits of the A55?Wondered what was going on.
sleavesley on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber: staggered start.
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Eric9Points: Try reading my other posts about the benefits of this event and that should cover your 'question'. It amazes me how places like London embrace the Marathon, Newcastle embrace the Great North Run and see it as showcases for there areas and cities , Foreign Cycle events are the same with similar 'disruption' to locals and yet there's almost universal support for them from locals.
sleavesley on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to neilh: possibly the VC melyd 10 TT
andy - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber: At the Etape Caledonia the starts were in waves spread over about 90 minutes at a guess - it was pretty busy for the first 5 miles then thinned out once groups formed. Then it got really thin after everyone except me and about 4 others got punctures from the tacks on the road!

In Spain most sportives are closed roads - the numbers are smaller because closed roads aren't so unusual, but they run a rolling road closure and people seem completely chilled about it. And I suspect there isn't the same potentially dramatic effect on the local economy that direct spend and the multiplier effect could have.

Let's just hope the Yorkshire folk (apart from my local councillor) can see the benefits of the Tour coming next year - that'll be long road closures, but estimates are £150m of income to the region.
Liam M - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Hat Dude) I'm surprised.. most small races won't close roads. They will have caution runners. But road closure fees are huge.. for a race with a 10-20 quid entry fee.. 100-200 runners it just can't happen. Its why we lost so many classic races.
>

You must have some uncooperative police forces/authorities around by you. There seem to be very few races that venture onto the public road around here (West/North Yorks) that don't have at least partial road closures.

Of the handful of races on road I've done in the last twelve months (often not that big events as I find dense crowds unnerving) I can't think of any that weren't fully closed for part of their length and having restrictions on other parts.
a lakeland climber on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber:

Just had a thought - I wonder if the drivers are blindly following sat-navs? If the units are set up for the shortest route rather than main roads then it's one reason they might ignore road signs.

Sat-nav does seem to turn off people's common sense. We live at a point where the tarmac road ends but the right of way continues as a muddy lane over a ford, it appears on sat-nav maps as a right of way. We regularly (there was one on Saturday) get drivers coming down the lane and turning round in the yard as they realise they can't get through. What's bizarre is that a couple of years ago we mentioned this to the highway authority who put up one of those no through road signs (like a T with a red bar) so the drivers are ignoring an official road sign and trusting that their sat-nav is correct.

ALC
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Liam M: Maybe..

Look at the borders leage.. can't think of one which shuts a main road.. maybe tattenhall? I don't think Caernarfon does? Most are cycle tracks or parks.

I was inconvenienced by the marathon.. it started just by my front door.. so the road was closed. But we were well notified. You could also tell it was giving to local charities and well nestled in the local community, so for me that was no issue.

Yesbut whatever.. donm't go around trying to be condescending using !!!! when you can't explain your point.. as eric said please explain?

You won't because you can't.. so you revert to !!!

And yes as one poster said, theer are some in North Wales who are just pricks.. sadly. We even had a kids race n the mountains where a local annoyed at the english only signs, removed the directions.. so the kids got lost.. around a dangerous quarry. For such people there is no excuse, no understanding necessary. Othertimes there is.

So asking for further info is perfectly fine. Sleavesly, being local has explained.. LC has explained his experiences.. you just !!!!! which shows a total lack of litteracy skills, so stop being a prick was a fitting response.
jkarran - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton:

Growing up on the Isle of Man where road closures for sport are frequent I really don't see why people get so wound up by this. You get plenty of notice then plan to work around it.

jk
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> [...]
>
> Nice!
> [...]
>
> Very few compared to what went on with the Olympics and the recent ride London Event. And the Locals there didn't chuck tacks on the road!
> [...]

In comparable. Look at the route.

>
> They were offered the same as anyone else near an event like this.
> [...]
>
> Is north wales a special case compared to the South East or maybe Newcastle with the Great north Run or |Glasgow when the commonwealth games start
> [...]
>

Again, look at the route.. plenty of other routes open and short road closure times. The commonwealths? How many road closures will there be? there may be the walks? looped marathon, looped road biking, usual closures around teh stadiums.. easily avoided just by parking elsewhere.

> Appease people who endanger lives by throwing tacks on a road? I don't think any amount of explaining would work,
I agree.. I never defended the throwing of tacks, just looking at what was going on. There's normally a pyramid, those who are OK, then a smaller groupd of people who are unhappy and then a small group who will act. Normally the middle group can be appeased. Saves bad blood which may threaten events like this in future.

Re Wales not wanting events. It is changing, but slowly at first, but its getting beter and better. They've held the commonwealths, the world trail champs, and now the world mountain running champs.

2 of the three events were meant to be in Gwynedd. The council refused to back them. Thats many many thousand coming into Gwynedd which COnwy then took. The direct and indirect benefits will be considerable, and thats a council having that short term view. The WMRA champs will be held in Wales in 2015, originally planned for Llanberis, how much of a coup for a small village, but they've now been switched to the conwy valley.



yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Liam M) Maybe..
>
>
>
>
>
> So asking for further info is perfectly fine. Sleavesly, being local has explained.. LC has explained his experiences.. you just !!!!! which shows a total lack of litteracy skills, so stop being a prick was a fitting response.

Should that be a lack of literacy skills. Oh the irony !!
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:Sorry typed in a rush after a 12 km run at lunch in the pissing rain... some of us do some just do armchair sport... apologies.
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: And I was right 'you won't'.. you didn't.. you reverted to type an sniping insult or !!!!

Comeon at least I put my explanations in the text...
tony on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> (In reply to Eric9Points) Try reading my other posts about the benefits of this event and that should cover your 'question'.

No it doesn't really, It's a response to a different question, but it doesn't address what should be done to stop the same thing happening again. Of course there are local benefits - no-one is saying otherwise - but there are also local disadvantages.

If local people really are prevented from using the roads for up to 10 hours, it's not surprising that someone is going to be a but pissed off. It only takes one unhappy local with a box of tacks to cause major disruption. Simply saying that it's not like this anywhere else and other places manage it fine doesn't do anything to tackle the problem. Spraying around a bunch of exclamation marks also doesn't suggest you're really engaging with the issues that are being raised.

yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut)Sorry typed in a rush after a 12 km run at lunch in the pissing rain... some of us do some just do armchair sport... apologies.

In reply to IainRUK. I have the utmost respect for your acheivements as a runner but to make cheap shots about armchair sports when you know nothing about the person you're aiming them at makes you seem a bit stupid. The only insults on here have been you calling me a prick. I thought your comments about compensation for locals were stupid and gave you my reasons why. You're welcome to disagree with me but I have at no point resorted to insults. Your post comes across as I run in the rain at lunchtimes therefore I'm in some way superior to you which is really rather sad.
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: Then don't be anonymous... you know about me because I post as me...
IainRUK - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: And no.. you were rude with the !!!! And about needing to teach me economics.. you were quite condescending then got all upset when I just don't be a prick..

Everyone else was discussing this you came in spraying around !!!! and then got all upset when people disagreed with a point you have continually refused to explain.

There are two sides to every story, so it was nice to get more info which people here provided. You just expected us all, regardless of facts, to accept road closures.

TBH If I was told 'look next week you have to stay in your house for 10 hours' no access as I'm running an event and will make thousands in profit.. but it will benefit locals'.. I'd expect a few quid so I can go elsewhere for the day.
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut) And no.. you were rude with the !!!! And about needing to teach me economics.. you were quite condescending then got all upset when I just don't be a prick..

Believe me no one here is upset
>
> Everyone else was discussing this you came in spraying around !!!! and then got all upset when people disagreed with a point you have continually refused to explain.

I think you'll find my first post quite near the beginning of this thread so I'm not sure how you're referring to everyone else. And I'm honestly at a loss as to what I haven't explained.
>
> There are two sides to every story, so it was nice to get more info which people here provided. You just expected us all, regardless of facts, to accept road closures.
>
> TBH If I was told 'look next week you have to stay in your house for 10 hours' no access as I'm running an event and will make thousands in profit.. but it will benefit locals'.. I'd expect a few quid so I can go elsewhere for the day.

So do you think massive parts of England should get compensation when the Tour de France comes to England in 2014 or the Commonwealth Games comes to Glasgow?
I find your stance quite amazing considering you're a top class runner. If everyone thought the same sporting events such as the Tour or Commonwealth games simply wouldn't happen in this country. It's got nothing to do with promoters making money, do you think that ASO don't make a huge amount of money from the Tour de France? or the company running the London Marathon doesn't make a profit of course they do and they also disrupt plenty of people with thier events. Fortunately most people can see that the benefits far outweigh the negatives, maybe not on a direct personal level but on a cultural and economic level. If everyone in Harrogate decides they want compensation for the Tour stage finishing there next year then the Tour would go else where, would this be a good thing for Yorkshire when as a previous poster has said they reckon the Tour will generate £150m pounds for the UK.




Toby S - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to IainRUK:

The Loch Ness Marathon is on closed roads for large parts of it. Likewise the Half Marathon that's organised earlier on in the year. It's great, I quite often set off early on the bike before the runners come through and take advantage of the empty roads :-)
tony on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

You're not really getting it are you. It doesn't matter what's happening with the TdF next year. Someone in North Wales is pissed off with being unable to use their local roads for up to 10 days. To avoid the same thing happening again, something needs to be done. Iain has made one suggestion. What would you do?
andy - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: £150m for Yorkshire, I think - presumably the third stage down south will generate more. Wharfedale RUFC are apparently almost sold out for camping places already, hotels are full.
andy - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to tony:
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut)
>
> You're not really getting it are you. It doesn't matter what's happening with the TdF next year. Someone in North Wales is pissed off with being unable to use their local roads for up to 10 days. To avoid the same thing happening again, something needs to be done. Iain has made one suggestion. What would you do?

10 days? Feck me, how slowly are they going? Is ALC riding? ;-)
tony on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to andy:

oops! 10 hours perhaps. Thank you.
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to tony:
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut)
>
> You're not really getting it are you. It doesn't matter what's happening with the TdF next year. Someone in North Wales is pissed off with being unable to use their local roads for up to 10 days. To avoid the same thing happening again, something needs to be done. Iain has made one suggestion. What would you do?

I'm getting that Iain thinks people should be paid £50 if a sporting event disrupts them once a year.
I don't think there's much you can do against one idiot who decides to put down tacks other than hopefully find the culprit, arrest them and issue a court order keeping them away from the course the following year. There will always be people against these sorts of events but fortunately they are in the minority in most parts of the country and within that minority there's a tiny few who do something stupid like this.
ads.ukclimbing.com
andy - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: And the trouble with £50 is you'd then get into horse trading - "Paid less than minimum wage to be trapped in my home - I demand at least a grand!".

It's a part of one day a year. That people have lengthy prior notice of. That they could make alternative arrangements for. That their region and community will benefit from.
tony on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

So you wouldn't do anything beforehand to try to stop it happening?

You wouldn't think about talking to the people affected, listening to their concerns, seeing what might be done? You'd wait until after the event had been spoiled and then do something?
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to tony: I've got no problem with a few mailshots or 'village hall' type meetings if that's whats needed , no problem at all.
tony on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

What about personal meetings? Taking disgruntled individuals seriously?
andy - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to tony:
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut)
>
> So you wouldn't do anything beforehand to try to stop it happening?
>
> You wouldn't think about talking to the people affected, listening to their concerns, seeing what might be done? You'd wait until after the event had been spoiled and then do something?

Don't know what happened in wales but round Pitlochry there was all sorts of meetings etc and basically a small number of people felt that if they were impacted in any way whatsoever then it should be stopped.
SteveRi - on 09 Sep 2013
It really does cost to close roads. And there's a lot of hoops to be jumped. And a lot of small races run by busy people in their spare time - the sorts of grass root, bread and butter events that a few hundred people turn out for - have packed up in recent years. It leaves a big gap between low key events, like my mate's fell race on Wed that took over a road for a minute or two and caused no real inconvenience, and much bigger events that need to follow the letter of the law and cover much bigger costs.
MG - on 09 Sep 2013
Why can roads not be shut in just one direction, thus allowing residents out of the race area, albeit via a longer than normal route?
ox - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton: Yes i was one of the riders to get a flat from a tack a bit pissed off but the Mavic support car helped me out and was back on the road in 15 mins and did it in 6hrs 37 so not too bad.I can understand why some of the locals are not happy i went passed a small village and you could see a bloke wanted to get his car out but i do not think he would be allowed,its closed roads thats its no access you can not have cyclists coming round bends at 40mph on the wrong side of the road and along comes mr Jones just nipped out for a bit of shopping one dead cyclist.People know about this a year before and i hope its good for the area please do not put tacks on the roads .
balmybaldwin - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton:

At the end of this month, a lot of major roads in surrey will be closed for the second time in 2months. Signage has been out for about 3 months informing residents and visitors of road closure dates and times, yet it doesnt seem to be a problem for the locals (yes theres always some muttering a long the lines of "forgot the tour of brittain was on, so got stuck in traffic...")

While it does seem that its a north wales issue, I think that's wrong (despite experiencing many anti outsider north walians first hand) and the majority of the locals support the race and income it brings. It only takes one cock to do this sort of thing, and it could well be that we'll see this in other areas too if the idea catches on.

You will never get everyone on side, due to nimbyism, and I think paying compensation wont work either.... can you imagine the outrage if it was less than a surrey resident etc, but also if you are paying compensation for an annual ride, whats to stop them organising a monthly ride (as long as each resident gets their £50 each time) at which point in genuinely starts to become a real inconvenience.
paul__in_sheffield - on 09 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Hutton: I felt such a c**k yesterday, the signs have been up about closed roads around Llandegla for a while, but I completely forgot. It took a lot longer than the customary 50 mins to Capel Curig. Bugger!

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.