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A timely blog post

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 Puppythedog 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Tyler: Nice thoughtful post.
In reply to Tyler:

I didn't understand it to be honest. Is he putting forward two alternative realities, or has the chap made it back down to the hut and then been killed walking down from the hut the next day?

jcm
 Puppythedog 10 Sep 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: I read it that they had survived the day thta they bumped into each other but the following day the other chap fell and died.
OP Tyler 10 Sep 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

The later.... I think, I only read it once.
 galpinos 10 Sep 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to Tyler)
>
> I didn't understand it to be honest. Is he putting forward two alternative realities, or has the chap made it back down to the hut and then been killed walking down from the hut the next day?
>
> jcm

Unfortunately, the second option.
 abcdefg 10 Sep 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to Tyler)
>
> I didn't understand it to be honest. Is he putting forward two alternative realities, or has the chap made it back down to the hut and then been killed walking down from the hut the next day?

The latter. The Gouter Hut is *above* the Grand Couloir.
 TobyA 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Tyler: Oh dear, very sad. I remember on my first ascent of Ben Nevis - a very very cold day in February. We had done No.2 and were coming down the tourist track, helmets still on, cramponed, ice axes in hands. We met some young Germans coming up; jeans, fabric boots, no axes or even ski poles. We told them there was water ice the whole way up the path and it would be very hard without crampons, that it was very very cold on the top - but I guess we didn't say "Don't do it" or "you're crazy if you go on". I suppose as relative beginners we didn't feel we were experts. But just as they started walking up again my mate Ed said "many people die on Ben Nevis y'know?" A few minutes later we saw them turn around and start slithering their way back down. I really wished I had thought to say something like that.
 Simon4 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Tyler: It is a tricky one, as the responses to the chap who got into trouble on the Tour Ronde show. No real consensus, and some quite strong views on that.

At what point do you get involved in what you see as poor mountain judgement, or a party heading for disaster, and at what personal risk, or risk to your party? Even if you start using up water and resources that you are relying on, you are worsening your own situation, certainly if trying to help someone else out leaves you on a snow slope late, in the sun, you are putting yourself and your party at greater risk, let alone shepherding them down in stonefall or rapidly worsening snow conditions where you could easily and quickly get out of the situation.

I have actually taken someone down from a point very close on the Bosses ridge to where this article/blog post talks about who was completely away with the fairies, a danger to himself and everyone else, in fairly grim weather. Similarly, I have with my partner shepherded a pair who were obviously at high risk of disaster down the North ridge of the Zinalrothorn - one was staggering all over the place, the other really wasn't controlling the situation.

The first occasion carried such substantial risk to my party that I felt obliged to formally ask my partner if he agreed before intervening as it was not a question of whether the victim would fall, but when. On the second occasion it was not without risk to us, but we could mostly avoid it, albeit we would have been very close to a pair plummeting to their deaths. As it was, we were clipping them into gear, which the relatively compos-mentis one was failing to notice or utilise, and telling them both what to do as well as physically helping them.

There are so many people in the Alps doing things that you may regard as dubious, not just bold mountaineering judgment and considered risk taking, but what you consider stupid bad practice. Can you intervene on every occasion, if the immediate danger is not obvious? Will they agree that what they are doing is dangerous anyway? Prepare to be sent away with a flea in your ear, even if you are convinced you are right.

In general you should say your piece, if only to salve your own conscience. But don't imagine it will always be welcomed, still less acted upon.

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