UKC

I have been watching this programme and can no longer hold my peace, It is a hugely propaganda programme for the Jewish faith. I am not an anti semite, but I would like to see a similar programme being screened for Islam or Christianity, or even atheists. It is totally one focussed and presupposes that Judaism is a correct and worthwhile philosophy and everybody else does not have valid philosophies.
We all know the appalling things that have been done to Jews over the past, and any thinking person sympathises with them because of this persecution, but this programme is a propaganda act that needs to be countered by the right to speak for Muslims and Christians and Atheists.

In reply to Al Evans:

What did you expect when watching a program on one of the worlds biggest propaganda outlets love and light?

In reply to Al Evans: Well, here's something similar for Islam http://www.channel4.com/programmes/islam-the-untold-story/episode-guide , perhaps other posters can help you with other religions.

In reply to Al Evans:

I haven't seen the programme but, having watched a lot of Schama (no "r") stuff in the past, I can guess where you are coming from on this and suspect I might feel similarly. He can be annoyingly one-sided in his story telling. Having said that, we don't perhaps see much positive stuff about the Jewish faith on the TV - which tends to be defined by the often negative images coming out of Israel. It would be quite refreshing to watch something which does not simply equate being Jewish to modern life in Israel. This might be partly intended to go some way towards countering those images and perhaps that is no bad thing given the supposed rise in anti-Semitic feelings in parts of Europe.

In reply to Al Evans:
Christianity:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00ntrqh
plus of course all the normal Christian broadcasting - Somngs of Praise, etc.

Atheism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism:_A_Rough_History_of_Disbelief

You can understand their being wary of Islam given what happened when this was broadcast
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/islam-the-untold-story/episode-guide

In reply to Al Evans:

Documentary on the Jewish People presented by prominent Jewish Historian in 'Sympathetic to Judaism' shocker.

Can't help feeling this is a bit of a non-story?

In reply to Al Evans:

'.... Prof Schama declined to comment.'

www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/111371/simon-schama-and-bbc-attacked-over-story-jews

Sorry about that.

In reply to Al Evans:

Come on Al, you can hardly blame him for not giving equal billing to other faiths. I was interested that he addressed his interpretion of Zionism so directly, acknowledging that it's a loaded term for many people but stating his position very clearly. I would have liked a bit more discussion on this but I suspect that it might have been edited out for fear that it wasn't really appropriate to the story he was telling (it seem pretty clear that Schama didn't have a problem talking about it).

Public figures don't get much more liberal, secular and rational than Schama but this is also a personal account, which makes it intersting.

In reply to Al Evans:

If you think it's propaganda then are saying he's lying, in part at least.
Where specifically do you see the untruths?

In reply to Mike Highbury:

I love this comment from your link

'But supporters of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign have complained to the BBC, claiming it was “alarming” that Professor Schama should be allowed to discuss the Shoah.'

You are supposed to discuss the story of the Jews and ignore the part when nearly half of them are killed? Isn't history about what actually happened, rather than editing out parts that don't fit with some group's narrative?

In reply to MikeTS:

I know of course that some of your best friends are Jewish

but....?

In reply to Al Evans:

Here in my pocket I've got...


(Sorry. Sorry. Can't see that title without starting to sing. Just re read Head On so got Wah and Wylie somewhere in my mind.)

In reply to Sir Chasm:

Hmmm, I'm watching this, thanks, I'll get back when I've digested it.
Al

In reply to Al Evans: Well all this documentary does is confirm my belief that all religion is bollox, and that Islam is just one of the worst and newest of all that bollox. How the modern world deals with that, I have no idea, but obviously nazzism was not the right answer.

In reply to MikeTS:

You appear to be talking to yourself!

In reply to MikeTS:

No; you are wrong. The best propaganda is composed of carefully chosen and presented truth.

In reply to Al Evans:

You're welcome to your opinion. So I'm curious why religions offend you so much.

In reply to Al Evans:

Really? Because your initial post was about how Schama's tv prog about Jews was propaganda because no other programmes have been made about any other religions, ever, in the history of tv.

In reply to Andy Say:


Lying can also be by omissions. What terrible thing shave been omitted in this doco to make it propaganda?

In reply to The New NickB:

I know, happens a lot.

In reply to MikeTS:

Because, just like political ideology they do so much damage, maybe more to individuals than nations.

In reply to Al Evans: They never do anything positive?

In reply to Al Evans: I haven't seen this documentary does it mention Nakba?

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Mussolini got the trains to run on time, but I'd suggest that overall he was probably a bad thing.

In reply to Al Evans: The Story of the Jews - Is this a cover of the original by Pete Wylie and The Mighty Wah?

<pops on coat>

In reply to Al Evans:

Read his Landscape and Memory - wonderful book

In reply to MikeTS:

Given that this is a documentary about Judaism I wouldn't assume that shaving features highly?

Sorry. Cheap shot.

I have no idea what has been omitted from the documentary to whitewash the history of the Jews in Al Evans' eyes; TV on the blink you see.

But you shift strangely from accusations about suggesting there is 'lying' to accusations about 'not telling the whole truth....'

Re propaganda. To issue a press release denying the use of white phosphorus by the Israeli Army could be considered as 'propaganda' that includes 'lies'. To suggest that fire into Palestine is simply as a response to the latest rocket attack equally be could be considered as 'propaganda' 'by omission'. To suggest that many Palestinians have a legal right to reclaim the land taken from them over the recent period is also 'propaganda' as well; of course

Propaganda is information circulated to support a particular cause/issue. We all do it.

In reply to Al Evans:

The filmaker Tom Hollands life was threatened by the ROP followers, just for making this documentary.
I don't think Simon Schama will lose any sleep over the making of his series.

In reply to andyathome:


I haven't seen the show, but the Jews have a dramatic 3500 year history in which they can reasonably claim to have contributed hugely to Western civilisation.

But you obsess on an incident with the Israel conflict in Gaza - and of course ignore the thousands of missiles and rockets aimed at civilians by the Islamic fanatics of Gaza. Strange!

In reply to Al Evans:

Couple of comments.

1. You start a thread about an apparently too favourable treatment of Judaism: then when challenged for specifics you complain about Islam
2. The when asked what your problem is, you say that the problem is that religion is like ideology, which is not really getting anywhere

Since your posts seem to consist only of assertions: no arguments or evidence, it's really difficult to debate with you. So I'll stop!

In reply to MikeTS:

There you go. Propaganda in action! (The contribution of Islamic scholars?)

In reply to Al Evans:

How very liberal of you to say so.

In reply to Al Evans:
I cant disagree with you more. I guess you're not a Jew as neither am I. And I suppose in some ways you will take from this Sharmas narrative what you read into it. But lets look at it another way. If I was a Jew then maybe Id be more aware of the Jewish story as seen from a Jewish perspective but Im not and therefor not privy to their culture. I think Mr Sharma ia actually giving some valuable broad insight into the Jewish mindset, something about how the Jew relates to life but perhaps something even more so - how the Jews have survived. And if you dont see that message in Sharmas delivery then you've missed the point. You think its faith propaganda? no, and if history dosent learn the point of the Jewish experience then all we will be is reinforcing a form of cultural isolation. Trying to separate the survival of the Jews from their God is impossible, they're too entwined. You might not agree with their ideas or their faith but hey Mr Sharma is giving us an education. Just an idea really.

In reply to Al Evans: this sounds like a good documentary did it mention the king david hotel incident 1946 ?

In reply to Al Evans:

Opening a discussion with that phrase tends to knock a few credibility points from an argument straight away dude.

Just saying

In reply to Al Evans:
Given he's compressing 3500 years into 5 hours of TV he's bound to miss out some stuff. But as long as you're savvy enough to recognise every story has a narrator, who in turn has an agenda, it's a good TV programme.

In reply to drsdave: I think I agree with everything you say.

In reply to ThunderCat:

But why should it if it's the truth?

In reply to Al Evans:

Anyone who begins his post with :I am not an antisemite, but ..."

In reply to MikeTS:

Not that you are bias of course.

In reply to Al Evans: And excuse me, where did I obsess about this?