/ Quickdraw Carabiner Positions

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alastairmac - on 17 Sep 2013
I almost hesitate to ask as it appears obvious but..... when setting up a quickdraw does everybody have both carabiner gates facing in the same direction? Or do some people have carabiners and gates facing in opposite direction ? (top one facing right and bottom one facing left for instance) I have them facing in the same direction top and bottom . But I notice that on some gear sites they are set up differently. With carabiners facing in opposite directions. Thoughts?
xplorer on 17 Sep 2013
In reply to alastairmac:

I can't think of many for and against arguments, I think it's mainly down to personal choice.

I'd like to hear if there are any reasons for opposing gates.

My draws have mostly come opposing so I've changed others and kept them opposing.
biscuit - on 17 Sep 2013
In reply to alastairmac: it is often personal preference but there is a slight safety advantage to do with having both gates facing away from your direction of travel. Its the way they interface with the bolt and rope in case of a fall.

It stops the draw from rotating as you climb past it stopping any cross loading or gate/bolt loading problems and the rope should fall down the back bar of the crab rather than the gate in the event of a fall.

Small margins really bt I always try to do it. However in extremis it goes in any old way. Bring clipped in is safer than faffing to get it 100% right and falling off un clipped cos you got too pumped.

There must he something on you tube showing this.

I was once told by a pro that it was the mamba that started the fashion for gates facing opposite ways and when he asked them why they didn't have an answer to why they did it.
GrahamD - on 17 Sep 2013
In reply to alastairmac:

My quickdraws / extenders are random. I don't find it a problem
Michael Gordon - on 17 Sep 2013
In reply to alastairmac:

Some of mine are one way, some are the other. Don't think it matters either way.

biscuit - on 17 Sep 2013
In reply to biscuit:

http://www.roadtoelcap.com/1/post/2013/07/the-5-biggest-safety-related-myths-in-rock-climbing.html#....

No idea who this guy is or what his experience is but a quick google put this up at the top. Myth no5 with pics.
In reply to alastairmac: If they face opposite ways, when you clip your gear in the easiest manner, you can then clip your rope in the easiest manner.

biscuit - on 17 Sep 2013
In reply to biscuit: http://www.roadtoelcap.com/1/post/2013/07/the-5-biggest-safety-related-myths-in-rock-climbing.html#....

And here.

Not sure if that was an issue in this case but with opposite gates the top krab is more likely to end up with the notch catching in the hanger if they are opposite.
biscuit - on 17 Sep 2013
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

I find it easier to clip with gate facing away from me - pushing it onto the hanger. If you're to the left of the bolt chances are you will be carrying on to the left so would prefer to have the gate facing to the right. So that works for me.

As for clipping the rope in just get proficient at clipping in all orientations, good skills to have.
pec on 17 Sep 2013
In reply to alastairmac: As well as having the gates facing away from your direction of travel you should also have them facing away from the rock so when they get pulled tight in a fall no bit of sticking out rock can catch on the gate and momentarily open it, thus massively reducing the krab's strength just as it comes under load. This applies to both krabs and so its better to have them both facing the same way in most circumstances.
Howard J - on 18 Sep 2013
In reply to alastairmac: most of the arguments for facing the same way apply to bolts. What about trad? I face them opposing and find it easier to clip gear towards me which leaves the clipped gate facing the correct way.
wurzelinzummerset on 18 Sep 2013
In reply to Howard J: Try this: get a no.1 wire and clip it to a quickdraw with wiregates. Hold the nut end of the wire in your left hand and the rope end of the quickdraw in the right, with the krab that's clipped to the wire orientated with the gate facing right. Move your right hand up so that the krab clipped to the wire rotates to the position where the wire sits at the point the gate opens. Now flick your right hand down and try to free the wire from the krab.

You'll find it's not difficult to remove the wire from the quickdraw in this way, which might go some way to answering your question.
Jonny2vests - on 18 Sep 2013
In reply to biscuit:

> It stops the draw from rotating as you climb past it stopping any cross loading or gate/bolt loading problems and the rope should fall down the back bar of the crab rather than the gate in the event of a fall.

I think you're confusing this with back clipping.
Michael Gordon - on 18 Sep 2013
In reply to wurzelinzummerset:

I think quickdraws unclipping themselves from wires is very rare in practice.
cyberpunk - on 18 Sep 2013
In reply to alastairmac: iI doesn't matter but I put mine both facing same direction so when I place gear in a corner the gates are facing away from the rock.
wurzelinzummerset on 18 Sep 2013
In reply to Michael Gordon: Quickdraws can unclip from hangers on sport routes and wires on trad routes, maybe it's rare, but it happens. They can only unclip if the hanger or wire interacts with the point at which the gate of the krab opens, probably in conjunction with a fall. So to me it seems fairly obvious that orientating krabs on a quickdraw to prevent this is the best option.
John Stainforth - on 18 Sep 2013
In reply to biscuit:

Opposite ways has the advantage that one can point the upper gate in the direction one is traveling (if climbing diagonally) to make clipping a rather distant bolt easier. Then the lower crab is pointing away from the direction of travel, which minimises the risk of backclipping.
DubyaJamesDubya - on 19 Sep 2013
In reply to alastairmac:
> I have them facing in the same direction top and bottom . But I notice that on some gear sites they are set up differently. With carabiners facing in opposite directions. Thoughts?

Opposite gives a nice Yin and yang look I find. Probably doesnt matter as I orient the gear Krab according to need.
JimboWizbo - on 19 Sep 2013
In reply to alastairmac: I go with opposite, personal preference, means I clip the biner into the bolt in the same direction I clip the rope into the biner, which is neat.
GridNorth - on 19 Sep 2013
In reply to alastairmac: I don't think it matters much on trad but on sport I find that with gates opposite the gate at the bolt end seems far more likely to end up pressed against the rock and therefore more prone to opening.
Howard J - on 19 Sep 2013
In reply to wurzelinzummerset:
> (In reply to Howard J) Try this: get a no.1 wire and clip it to a quickdraw with wiregates. ...Move your right hand up so that the krab clipped to the wire rotates to the position where the wire sits at the point the gate opens. Now flick your right hand down and try to free the wire from the krab.
>
I've tried what you suggested. I couldn't get it to unclip, even when I positioned the krab with the gate open and the wire just caught in the hook. However I'm using proper old-fashioned solid krabs instead of these new-fangled wire thingies. It sounds more like a reason for not using wire-gates :)

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I have to say it's not something that worries me.

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Simon Cahill - on 19 Sep 2013
In reply to alastairmac: The OP doesn't mention whether the question relates to sport or trad, most of the above posts have assumed a sport situation. The way i do it depends on each situation. Looking at sport first, i normally face the carabiner gate away from the bolt, on occasion due to the bolt placement or rock shape I may face the gate towards the bolt if there is a greater risk of something elsepotentially opening the gate either in the process of normal climbing or a fall. The carabiner clipped to the rope is considered next the gate should face away from the direction of climbing, ie the rope runs over the back bar and is not back clipped.

In a trad situation again it varies or depends on each placement. First I consider the carabiner clipped to the gear, place it in the direction in which the gate least likely to open. Then consider the carabiner clipped to the rope, again gate away from direction of climb, in rare situations if this means a risk of the gate opening I may turn it around, (asking myself is the greater risk of opening due to the gate catching on something or the rope unclipping in a fall). On a long extender or not knowing the direction of the route I may clip the "rope" carabiner either way around.

So how do I rack them - I tend to have a mix, but however I have the racked i normally end up rearranging the orientation on some draws as I use them depending on the placement.

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