/ Petzl Basic for shunting/self-belay

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humptydumpty - on 18 Sep 2013
Thinking of getting one of these for shunting, but a bit confsued:

The Petzl website has instructions for setting it up for self-belay:
http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/product-experience/self-belay-solo-climbing/introduction

But also the manual for the (presumably new-model) Basic says: "Self-belaying is prohibited" - http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Pro/B18-BASIC.pdf

Does that mean the old basic is good but the new one not?

Also, the self-belay page says to attach to the top attachment hole, whereas the manual suggests the bottom should be used... which is correct?
needvert on 18 Sep 2013
In reply to humptydumpty:

Use the old basic, with a carabiner through the top holes, for self belaying. That way the rope is entirely captive. Same as one does with an ascension:
http://assets.outdoorgearlab.com/photos/1/44/135881_4721_XL.jpg

If you're buying kit, look at the microtraxion too.
humptydumpty - on 19 Sep 2013
In reply to needvert: Thanks, is the new one completely unsuitable then? I am thinking of buying, and Joe Brown's let's you choose old vs new model.

I've used the old basic and it works very nicely, so I assumed the new one would be the same but lighter. Will check some reviews of the microtraxion.
needvert on 19 Sep 2013
In reply to humptydumpty:

I haven't seen a new basic, but with the old basic or the ascension, if you only had a biner through the bottom whole, it was feasible to accidently get your ascender off. Uncommon event, but not unheard of. Is more likely to happen on traverses. I suspect thats the case with the new basic...But I'm not sure, you could try to play with it and see if you can get the rope to come out. I do wonder what the difference between the croll and the new basic is, they're almost the same device.

(On a side note the minitraxion accidently locking open is also not unheard of.)

Microtraxion is a really nice device, very light, low bulk, and a much better pulley than the minitraxion. Infact looking at the two you realise just how bad the minitraxion design is (small radius pulley, a locking open fail mode that's a little too likely, almost twice the weight of the micro...)

Might interest you:
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/a/11085/The-Best-Progress-Capture-Pulley-or-Ascender-for-Solo-Self-Bel...
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Hauling-Device-Reviews/Petzl-Micro-Traxion
ads.ukclimbing.com
humptydumpty - on 19 Sep 2013
In reply to needvert:
> (In reply to humptydumpty)
>
> I haven't seen a new basic, but with the old basic or the ascension, if you only had a biner through the bottom whole, it was feasible to accidently get your ascender off.

Yeah, having read the Petzl guide, I assumed top-holing was the recommended behaviour, and it's certainly safer as the krab should jam on a safety knot if the cam is opened or fails.


> Uncommon event, but not unheard of. Is more likely to happen on traverses.

Toproping traverses doesn't sound very fun to me anyway - will avoid.


> I suspect thats the case with the new basic...But I'm not sure, you could try to play with it and see if you can get the rope to come out. I do wonder what the difference between the croll and the new basic is, they're almost the same device.

Unfortunately I won't get a chance to try different devices before I order. I read a caver's review that said the new croll is slightly worse than the old (gets stuck, IIRC), and then new basic is just as good as the old one, although they suggest it might not be as durable ( http://blog.rockcreek.com/archives/vertical-caving-with-the-new-redesigned-2013-petzl-basic-and-petz... ).

> (On a side note the minitraxion accidently locking open is also not unheard of.)

From a quick read, you can modify the device to prevent this from happening - http://www.supertopo.com/photos/1/71/138598_20946_L.jpg - not sure how inconvenient this would be if you ever wanted to use it as a pulley, though.


> Microtraxion is a really nice device, very light, low bulk, and a much better pulley than the minitraxion. Infact looking at the two you realise just how bad the minitraxion design is (small radius pulley, a locking open fail mode that's a little too likely, almost twice the weight of the micro...)
>
> Might interest you:
> http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/a/11085/The-Best-Progress-Capture-Pulley-or-Ascender-for-Solo-Self-Bel...
> http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Hauling-Device-Reviews/Petzl-Micro-Traxion

Thing is, I've never needed a pulley and doubt I will soon, whereas an ascender would be quite handy, so unless the microtraxion is easier to toprope with I don't think I'm interested.

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