/ Pedestrian Cyclist collision

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Kemics - on 23 Sep 2013
Im cycling home from work.

I approach a cross roads. There are cars and (an important) bus queuing. The bus is signalling to turn right. Im heading left. The lights go green and the cars ahead of us start to move. I filter past the bus on the left and a man running across the road jumps out in front of the bus. I perform an emergency stop, snapping my break cable(!) the man like a rabbit in a headlight stares at me and we have a strange moment of eye contact before I hit into him.

He runs off. I'm still on the floor, by the time im on my feet he's heading up a drive way into an office. This happened 10 meters from his door. I call him a prick.

who's in the right, who's wrong?

I went up to the office, he answered the door. I said he shoudlnt have run off and it's considered polite to check if people are okay. He says I was cycling illegally (im not acutally sure though) I say im not. We bicker for a bit, he gets angry asks if i want to sue him, blah blah I decide to leave.



Siward on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics: was the man coming from left to right in front of you? If so he should have remembered his green cross code.

If he was coming right to left (i.e.popped out from behind the bus, then there's not much you can do to prepare for such things- he had a bus to get clear of and you had right of way.
Sir Chasm - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics: Clearly he shouldn't have run out. But you should have had properly functioning brakes. So you're both wrong.
Kemics - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Siward:

yeah he was coming right to left.

It's possible I could have slowed a lot more if my brake cable hadnt snapped. Fortunately, a tw*t in a gilet is probably the best case scenario for things to hit into. Thinking about it, it could have been a lot worse.

Kemics - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Sir Chasm:

the brakes was a surprise to me! I only replaced the cables 6 months ago... I did put the full anchors on. But wouldnt have thought I could have snapped them. It's a nice racer and I spend a lot of time/effort maintaining my bike. So it's not carelessness....my baby is scratched now :( amazingly no real damage but ive not done a thorough inspection as it looks like im smuggling a golf ball in my elbow and my palm smarts somewhat...
ScraggyGoat on 23 Sep 2013
Just one of those rolls of the dice. But you're probably both in the wrong. He was crossing the road and thus shouldn't have stepped beyond the bus without checking it was clear to do so.

Your view of traffic to the right was obscured by the bus and thus you should have been alert to the possiblity of hidden hazards. Plus busses commonly mean the likelihood of pedestrians.

One things for sure filtering is not illegal...........so he is talking rubbish.

You are of course both lucky, that it was a pride denting bump, rather than a trip to A&E.
joan cooper - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics: I thought if injuries were sustained in a road accident the police should be informed Its about time pedestrians were done for J walking or walking without due care. Too much blame on drivers.
richyfenn on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics:

You are allowed to undertake vehicles signalling to turn right as well as pass vehicles queuing in a right hand lane. He's running across the road without looking. I would say he was completely in the wrong, but one of those 'you' have to anticipate unforeseen idiots.

As a motorcyclist I've seen all too many people run out from queuing traffic not thinking that any kind of cyclist could be filtering their way. If I can't see what's in front of the vehicle (ie bus or van) I'll slow down a lot, but it doesn't guarantee I won't hit someone if they jump out.

As/if no one was injured I don't think there's much can be done. If the only damage was the brake cable I don't think he could be made to pay anything as a brake cable shouldn't snap (considered un road worthy?). It was very rude of him to just run off.

Watch out for him every time you go past there and if you see him shout "watch where you're going, tw@t!" every time :)
rallymania - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics:
> He says I was cycling illegally (im not acutally sure though) I say im not.

well in the UK jaywalking isn't specifically a crime, it sounds like he didn't cross the road within the guidelines of the highway code either.

hopefully no damage done and at least you had something soft to land on after a brake cable failure ;-)
Kemics - on 23 Sep 2013
my elbow is swelling up a treat under this pack of peas though :( getting hard to bend it. I doesnt actually hurt so hopefully just a monster bruise. no climbing now today which has wrecked my half day

i think i may post a copy of the highway code through the letterbox will a short note attached =)
RCC - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics:
Filtering isn't illegal, but in terms of liability it is a bit of a grey area. You are not automatically at fault if you have an accident filtering, but you will probably be held to a very high standard of behaviour. Best done at a very slow speed...

johnjohn - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics:
> a tw*t in a gilet

There's the crime. Speeding up would have been forgivable.
parkovski - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics:

I got taken out by a pedestrian a few years ago in similar circumstances, only he was running out from behind the bus. It was very reminiscent of this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2oymHHyV1M
wintertree - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics:


I generally view any cyclist cutting up the inside of any vehicle (as opposed to taking a central line in a whole other lane) let alone a bloody big bus, as writing their death warrant, if not signing it.

Almost nobody expects you there. Most drivers don't check their inside mirror, some motorbike riders don't always check over their left shoulder, other potential hazards (drivers and pedestrians) have a poor view of you and are likely more focused either on their phone or the more obvious hazard you are undertaking. So you are placing yourself in a really vulnerable position, and you were not anticipating the problems associated with doing so as evidenced by your crash, and that cost you some scrapes and pride. None of this excuses someone for stepping out like a muppet and he's lucky he didn't do it with a motorbike and get properly clobbered, but you have to accept that your failure to anticipate other people's mistakes can hurt both of you.

I don't really care if it was a legally acceptable manoeuvre or not, but in my mind it's one that's very likely to court danger.

Are all the risks of undertaking a bus worth the 10 seconds gained?
The Norris - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to wintertree:

Are you suggesting that cyclists should overtake cars and buses in a traffic jam by overtaking on the right?

Surely that would mean cycling right next to the on-coming traffic? I'm not sure i'm too keen on that idea.

As long as the cyclist keeps an eye on anyone indicating left, and drivers indicate left when they want to turn left, then there shouldnt be a problem.
earlsdonwhu - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics: I am very wary of pedestrians these days. So many wander round with headphones on and although they may hear a vehicle approaching, they seem oblivious to cyclists and often just step off the pavement without looking. Groups of kids who operate with a herd mentality are another dimension to the problem.
Trevers - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to The Norris:
> (In reply to wintertree)
>
> Are you suggesting that cyclists should overtake cars and buses in a traffic jam by overtaking on the right?
>
> Surely that would mean cycling right next to the on-coming traffic? I'm not sure i'm too keen on that idea.
>
> As long as the cyclist keeps an eye on anyone indicating left, and drivers indicate left when they want to turn left, then there shouldn't be a problem.

It's true. There's no clear cut rule, it's a call you have to make with each different situation. Undertaking vehicles signalling left is a crazy thing to do but with right-turning vehicles it should be alright so long as care is taken. I probably wouldn't at lights that have just changed and vision is obscured

Cyclists have as much right not to be held up by motor vehicles as the other way round
wintertree - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to The Norris:

> Are you suggesting that cyclists should overtake cars and buses in a traffic jam by overtaking on the right?

Madness, following the same rules as all other road users, and therefore being predictable to them, and expected by them.

> Surely that would mean cycling right next to the on-coming traffic? I'm not sure i'm too keen on that idea.

Yes. Just like motorbikes. I make great progress doing that - often city traffic is stop/start with junctions and lights and crossings. When the oncoming is stopped some way away and a gap opens up, pull right out to the right and power past the cars. You can always see a gap to pull into where a car is over far left, and by the time you get there there's another one further up. You can go much faster, and more safely, in the space there. The only problem is rapidly moving left if the traffic speeds up so you don't slow them down.

> Surely that would mean cycling right next to the on-coming traffic? I'm not sure i'm too keen on that idea.

They can see you and are looking at you, unlike the people you're undertaking. If the road doesn't have space, don't do it but then it probably doesn't have space to undertake safely either.

> As long as the cyclist keeps an eye on anyone indicating left, and drivers indicate left when they want to turn left, then there shouldnt be a problem.
As long as the car holds its line. The further problem is that other motorists and pedestrians just don't expect you to be there.

Mind you, I've overtaken a bus that was pulled over and signalling left when the see-you-next-tuesday pulled off right into me, so you can't win.
puppythedog on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to wintertree: I tried to reply to you earlier but the post vanished.

I always check my inside before manoeuvring and I was taught to by my driving instructor. Have you noticed where they tend to place the cycle lanes?
puppythedog on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to puppythedog: oh and I don't really cycle.
wintertree - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
> (In reply to wintertree) I tried to reply to you earlier but the post vanished.
Fixing my usual myriad typos

> I always check my inside before manoeuvring and I was taught to by my driving instructor.
Congratulations, you're more attentive than most drivers

> Have you noticed where they tend to place the cycle lanes?
Yes and I consider the pattern of encouraging cyclists up the inside of traffic to a special area at the front of a queue to embody several different examples of Very Wrong - all from the viewpoint of cyclist's safety.

Eric9Points - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics:

I get the impression that you must have been going a bit too fast.

If you're undertaking you've really got to be prepared for anything going wrong.
lmarenzi - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics:

Very disconcerting when people don't stop at the scene of an accident to see if everyone is OK or needs help. Very poor.

Strange that in your post you chase after the pedestrian and tell him he should not have run off and bicker, but did not check that he was OK?

In the heat of the moment of course there are often arguments about whose fault it is and these are a bit pointless since neither party is likely to have an overview over what happened and its all just adrenaline at that point. These conversations are best avoided.

On reflection though I think you will agree that if you were hauled to court after having hit a pedestrian you will without any doubt be getting done.

Glad to hear that there was no major damage though!
Bimbler - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics:

I thought all cyclists record their confrontations for YouTube fame now.

If your brake cable is damaged enough for it to snap under load then you certainly cannot describe your bike as well maintained. Just be thankful you didn't hurt the chap.
MHutch - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to :

Rule of thumb is to always expect motorists, pedestrians and other cyclists to behave like tw*ts.

I don't see how you could avoid filtering left in those circumstances, the key thing is how fast you were going. Anything much more than walking pace when your view of the junction is obscured would be too much for me.

I must admit, I'd be expecting a vehicle coming the other way to turn across and t-bone me rather than an idiot pedestrian.
digby - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to Bimbler:

> If your brake cable is damaged enough for it to snap under load then you certainly cannot describe your bike as well maintained.

Yes you can. You can also describe the brake cable as insufficiently strong. Or you have a very strong climbers grip.


digby - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to Kemics:

I will never forget (I hope) filtering up the inside of a queue of traffic, with a gap in it ahead of a bus. Just as I was a metre or two from the front of the bus a car shot across in front of me, coming from a side road to the right, across the road, heading for the side turning on the left. I didn't see it coming and though I normally slow and peer carefully around the front of any bus I'm undertaking to see if there are any pedestrians I stupidly wasn't about to this time. So I was VERY lucky not to get flattened.
You just can't rely on nothing coming around the front of any vehicle you are undertaking. You absolutely have to check. It's your own skin, it's no good relying on 'rights'

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