/ World Championships

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Fredt on 23 Sep 2013
So Mark Cavendish says he is looking forward to setting up Chris Froome to take the WC.

How does that work then?
Dave Kerr - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt:

Cav will work for Froome. Although the amount of work he'll be able to do on that course might be minimal he's obviously keen to play a team role.
tim000 - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt: probably the same way he helped wiggo in the tour last year . pulling on the flat and going back to the car for food/drinks.
Chris the Tall - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt:
> So Mark Cavendish says he is looking forward to setting up Chris Froome to take the WC.
>
> How does that work then?

First of all - just like any other domestique - he showed he could do it in last years TDF, going back to the team car for bottles, doing a stint at the front. Bear in mind that when we see him being sheltered until the last 100m, it's in order that he has a much as possible left in the tank at this point. It's not because he is to weak to do any work.

Secondly we might see Cav being used to chase down the odd break - you can be sure if he were to get in a break, plenty of other teams would work to bring it back.
Fredt on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt:

So why is Froome a better bet than Cav?
puppythedog on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt: When's it on too? will it be on ITV4?
Enty - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt:
> (In reply to Fredt)
>
> So why is Froome a better bet than Cav?

Basically theres a 4km climb at an average of 7%. You simply can't see Cav staying with the pack over this 10 times.

Then again I can't see Froome going hard with the punchers near the end.

E
Liam M - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt:
> (In reply to Fredt)
>
> So why is Froome a better bet than Cav?

The course is rather lumpy, and Froome has shown himself to be a good when the road goes upward. Cav excels on fast flat finishes, but whilst not entirely without success on hillier routes (cf Milan-San Remo) there are plenty who've got the better of him on uphill finishes and more who've done so when the whole route is filled with climbs.

Though if he is still there toward the end, I wouldn't put it past Gilbert to retain the jersey, even given his mediocre season.

I'm rather looking forward to being out there.
Liam M - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
> (In reply to Fredt) When's it on too? will it be on ITV4?

The BBC have obtained broadcast rights for it here. I'm presuming reasonably full coverage of the two elite races will be shown, though I'm not sure about the junior and U23 events - with Yates and Garner being decent shots for placing maybe they will show them.
Chris the Tall - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt:
Here's the course http://www.toscana2013.it/gara-in-linea29092013/?lang=en/#uomini-elite

One day races are far harder to predict that tour stages, but the riders will probably start dropping off the back of the peleton once they've done a few laps of Florence. So if Cav gets dropped on about the 3rd or 4th lap, he'll still have done over half of it and have contributed in that time.

You might see a break stick, you might see someone like Tony Martin or Cancellara go solo from 30ks out or the finish will be contested by a select bunch. I guess the GB hope is for the latter, and that the race is fast and hard, and that Froome is in the elite bunch, but hopefully without the likes of Sagan or Gilbert. Ireland on the other hand, with a smaller team, will probably not try to influence the shape of the race, hope to get lucky with getting Martin or Roche in a break. Whilst Italy and Spain, with several strong riders, may not have any coordinated plan, or at least ride that way !
Enty - on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to Fredt)
> [...]
>
> Basically theres a 4km climb at an average of 7%. You simply can't see Cav staying with the pack over this 10 times.
>
> Then again I can't see Froome going hard with the punchers near the end.
>
> E

I'm wrong. They do the hard climb once and the easy climb 10 times.
3.7km at 3.5% - who knows??

E
steev on 23 Sep 2013
In reply to Liam M:

The BBC coverage is detailed here:

http://road.cc/content/news/94049-bbc-broadcast-world-championships-road-races-time-trials-schedule

Looks like it should be an interesting race.
Chris the Tall - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt:
Any predictions for the ITT tomorrow ?

I'll go Martin, Fab, wiggo.

I've got a feeling that although Fab is aiming for both, he is more motivated towards the road race. And whilst Wiggo may be in his best form of the year, it's not a patch on last year, whereas Martin is at his peak
Dave Kerr - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Fredt)
> Any predictions for the ITT tomorrow ?
>
> I'll go Martin, Fab, wiggo.


Hard to see past that as the podium but the exact order will be interesting.
nniff - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Some variation on that theme!

Martin's solo effort in the Vuelta was special, but then again Fab took the TT stage. The questions are - have they got the measure of Wiggins or has he been off their radar for too long? Did all of the latter's reconnaissance of the TOB stage pay off for him or was he out and out quicker than the rest? Will Wiggins' stage and race win give an extra psychological boost?

Guess we'll find out tomorrow!
Dave Kerr - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to nniff:

The exciting part of this ITT is that Fab, Wiggo and Martin aren't just the best three in the world right now. They're 3 of the best testers ever.

Wiggo is the joker in the pack here based on his year so far but if there's one thing he knows it's how to hit form on the day.
JLS on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to Enty:

"3.7km at 3.5% - who knows?"

Isn't it 4.3km at 5.2% x10 ?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/uci-road-world-championships-2013/elite-men-road-race

I'm surprised there isn't anyone else who could do a better job than Cav on that course.
Enty - on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to JLS:

Yep - they only do the 3.7km hill once on the way to Florence.

1.5% steeper than Box Hill and the same length?


E
John Rushby - on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt:

Looking forward to the ITT today.

Going to be a classic, especially as we also have an outside chance with Dowsett.

dale1968 - on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt: Also Taylor Phinney must be a good punt, second last year
Chris the Tall - on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to JLS:

> I'm surprised there isn't anyone else who could do a better job than Cav on that course.

I'm guessing you didn't see how Cav won the national champs - proved he's no one-trick pony by beating Millar at his own game. It's quite possible that he will end his career as a classics rider like Tom Boonen. Just because he's a great sprinter it doesn't mean he's rubbish elsewhere.

There's also the fact that he's earned his place on the team. Britain are one short because only 8 riders earned ranking points, and Cav is the second ranked Brit after Froome. Millar is the obvious omission - maybe he has fallen out with Brailsford again as I'm not sure Edmondson or JTL are ahead of him on merit
Liam M - on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: JE and JTL may be slightly stronger on this sort of course though.

JTL has shown strength in being there when the road goes up quite steeply, not least by still being in there at the end of the Worlds last year. Edmondson was considered strong on climbs from his days as a junior and doesn't seem to have lost that since moving to Sky.

I agree that Millar is an interesting ommision, but I think the other two you name are obvious candidates to include on such a course.
JLS on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

>"I'm guessing you didn't see how Cav won the national champs"

I did, I walked the circuit on the day. The hills in Glasgow were short and steep that could be climbed with a sprint type effort. I realise he is more than a one trick pony but surely this course is at the wrong end of his spectrum of ability.
Chris the Tall - on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to JLS:
Fair enough !

Another factor is that he has a house nearby and his local knowledge might be a useful - he's just tweeted that he's off to watch the TT on his BMX!

It might be that he's too big (in term of prestige rather than physique!) to turn down when he said he wanted to ride
puppythedog on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt: C'mon Wiggo.
Chris the Tall - on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
Fab and Martin almost identical, Wiggo 15 secs down in 6th, but it's early days
puppythedog on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Not looing like he can catch Martin :-( I think he'll outdo Fab but it's 40 odd seconds to Martin.
Chris the Tall - on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
Sounds like Wiggo might just be able to get Silver - going to be very close

Bloody annoying as all of a sudden I can't get sound on my PC
puppythedog on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Bloody strong ride by Martin. he looks half dead.
Chris the Tall - on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
His time would have got 6th place in the team time trial !
Impressed by Wiggo, better than I thought
puppythedog on 25 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: Show's what I know :-) Still impressed with beating the field by a reasonable margin.
Chris the Tall - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt:
JTL withdrawn from the mens team and replaced by Luke Rowe

Has to be said I'm not convinced Wiggo is fully committed to the race, based on his post race interview yesterday - seemed to deflect questions about him riding, or at least riding in support of Froome. Is Millar on standby ?

Then again Boardman wondered if he might be used as a decoy - get him in a break and the other teams would have to chase, whilst he would he has a good sprint finish if they don't.

I hope GB do have a plan B this time - yes the tactic of one, obvious plan worked in Copenhagen, but failed badly in London. And the tactic of last man standing is far harder than to ensure a bunch sprint.
puppythedog on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall: is it not on the box :-( ?
HughM - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

What is going on with JTL? He's had a shocking year.

I don't think Millar will be riding. Fenn and Dowsett are the other reserves.

Re plan B - I'm not sure they have the riders for a decent plan A on this course, let alone a plan B.
steelbru - on 26 Sep 2013
puppythedog on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to steelbru: Thanks I thought that the people above were talking about a team time trial and that that was different to the road race. Have I got that wrong?
John Rushby - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to John Rushby:

Hmm, could be interesting.

Froome is the protected rider as they reckon he has the best chance over the repeated hill climbs, but Wiggins might be a surprise "5th column" - especially as he has a kick and Froome can't sprint to save his Fraggley little life.

Bad news about JTL - I wonder if the Epstein Barr has made a re-appearance or whather he has been over trained as Henry suggested. Met him at the Dave Raynor dinner last year and he's a nice bloke - be sad to see him burned out by Sky.
puppythedog on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to puppythedog: I really know so little about this I should stop trying to contribute but somehow I'm drawn in hoping I'll learn.
John Rushby - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to puppythedog:

Keep contributing - it the very least it will stop Coel and Toby hijacking the thread to argue about Muslamic tubulars.

Road cycling can seem a bit arcane at first, but all will become clear over the weekend. The women's race is Saturday and the men's sunday.

The team time trial last weekend was run on pro team lines, so is not a national undertaking - that can be confusing. The national competitions are the individual TT and the road races.

The road races are determined by the number of riders who have gained qualifying points in the previous season. In the past GB would have a couple of riders in there who had managed to snaffle enough points from their various pro racing - riders such as Roger Hammond and Charly Wegelius. They would never be in with a shout, and in Wegelius' case, ended up making a "commercial decision" and rode to help Italy, since that was where he lived and plied his trade.

Nowadays, as a resurgent cycling power we can field 9 (8 this year) riders of the quality you see lsited above and be favoured to win it.
John Rushby - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to John Rushby:

Of course, now the riders are clean it makes it more of a level playing field, not that I am saying owt mind *cough *Bettini* cough*
balmybaldwin - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to puppythedog:

Yes Puppy,

There are a number of different events, early on was the Team Time Trial, then Tuesday was the individual Time Trial, and Sunday is the main road race.

To race in the Individual Time Trial, you must also race in the road race i believe
puppythedog on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin: Thanks, i'd gotten confused thinking there was maybe something on today. I'm missing the coverage on the telly now the tours on ITV4 have finished.
link - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to John Rushby:
> (In reply to puppythedog)

> Nowadays, as a resurgent cycling power we can field 9 (8 this year) riders

9 If Bernie Rides for us again!

yesbutnobutyesbut - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to puppythedog)
>
> Yes Puppy,
>
> There are a number of different events, early on was the Team Time Trial, then Tuesday was the individual Time Trial, and Sunday is the main road race.
>
> To race in the Individual Time Trial, you must also race in the road race i believe

Not sure that's correct. I don't think Alex Dowsett is in the road team but he roade the TT.
Chris the Tall - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
> [...]
>
> Not sure that's correct. I don't think Alex Dowsett is in the road team but he roade the TT.

There was some arcane rule which meant that some French trackie ended up having to ride (or at least start) the Olympic road race

The problem is that UCI aren't very good when it comes to rules
nniff - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut)
> [...]
>
> There was some arcane rule which meant that some French trackie ended up having to ride (or at least start) the Olympic road race
>
> The problem is that UCI aren't very good when it comes to rules

And didn't that German trackie with the ridiculous thighs have to enter the mountain bike stuff?
tim000 - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to puppythedog)
>
>
>
> To race in the Individual Time Trial, you must also race in the road race i believe

could be wrong , but isn`t that just in the olympics .
steelbru - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut)
> [...]
>
> The problem is that UCI aren't very good when it comes to rules
They were saying at the Ind TT that the UCI rules state that the maximum length that an ITT can be is 50km, and yet Tuesday's was 57 or 58 - commentators couldn't explain why. Anyone heard an explanation ?

Chris the Tall - on 26 Sep 2013
In reply to steelbru:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
> [...]
> Anyone heard an explanation ?

If you've been following the UCI election farce you'll realise that UCI rules are a bit like the pirate code, more like guidelines - made, changed and bent on a whim, liable to be backdated if needs be.
TimB - on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to nniff:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
> [...]
>
> And didn't that German trackie with the ridiculous thighs have to enter the mountain bike stuff?

That was due to Olympic rules - there was a limit to the overall number in a team for cycling, so a few nations put in extra track riders who were listed for the XCO race and track events.

Sadly Förstemann was "DNS" (Did not start) in the mountain bike race - along with two other cyclists from France and Australia I think, who were also track riders. It's a real shame, partly because I would have loved to see him break a spindly carbon hardtail by sprinting, but mostly because it meant that a German mountainbiker would have been missed from the team.
TimB - on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to steelbru:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
> [...]
> They were saying at the Ind TT that the UCI rules state that the maximum length that an ITT can be is 50km, and yet Tuesday's was 57 or 58 - commentators couldn't explain why. Anyone heard an explanation ?

There's a list of amendements to the rules on the UCI website that came into force at the start of the month. Max distance in Worlds ITT has gone up to 60km for men and 40km for women : http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTY2NjU&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&am...

steelbru - on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to TimB:
Cheers for that Tim, you'd think the commentators ( Simon Brotherstone(?) and Chris Boardman ) might have known that !
Chris the Tall - on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt:
It would appear that the first vote at the UCI Congress ended up as a tie. I think it was regarding an amendment would definitely have allowed McQuaid to stand, so is not carried. But he's always maintained he didn't need it. So presumably there will still be a vote. And it will end up in a tie. What happens then - don't tell me Verbruggan has the casting vote !
HughM - on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to TimB:
> (In reply to steelbru)
> [...]
>
Those amendments (in 2.5.002) are for the team time trial, not the ITT?

Byronius Maximus - on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to TimB:
> (In reply to steelbru)
> [...]
>
> There's a list of amendements to the rules on the UCI website that came into force at the start of the month. Max distance in Worlds ITT has gone up to 60km for men and 40km for women : http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTY2NjU&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&am...

Why's it less for women? Seems pretty archaic.
TimB - on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to HughM:

Oh yeah - I guess the UCI (who have just finished their presidential election btw 24-18 to the winner) must have made the same mistake as me!
Chris the Tall - on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to TimB:
Cookson wins - cycling breathes a huge sigh of relief, swiss lawyers will be disappointed

Meanwhile the U23 road race is on with Simon Yates much fancied but not in the leading break. The roads looks incredibly smooth.
TimB - on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to TimB)
> ********* wins

Chris, you can't put that here! There isn't *Spoiler* in the title!!!

Everyone who's waiting to watch the whole thing in youtube later tonight will be very disappointed.

steev on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Just noticed that Lance Armstrong tweeted 'Hallelujah' after the news of Cookson winning broke. My tinfoil hat is twitching at the thought of what he might be so relieved about.
Chris the Tall - on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to steev:
Apparently the result was announced in the traditional way with smoke issuing from the UCI HQ in Aigle. Either that or the shredders were overheating.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Chris the Tall - on 27 Sep 2013
In reply to Fredt:
So did anyone catch any of the U23 race today - if that's an indication I'll put my money on Cancellara

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