UKC

So has anybody been climbing in the Lagorai? Yesterday I drove home from Padova over the passo rolle and blow me down if there aren't some outstanding looking pieces of rock. So today I took the missus and kiddywink back and went for a walk... What a spot! Right opposite the Pale di San Martino with perfect porfery, and granite and awesome looking crags! I know theres a guidebook but as I knew next to nowt about it I didn't buy. I will now. So what's it like? If its evem half as good as it looks it'll some pretty outstanding climbing...

In reply to mike kann:

Done a little rock climbing (and lots of ice climbing, ski touring, and walking) in the Lagorai. I also know some of the folk who are slowly developing the area.

The rock is porphyry, a cousin of rhyolite along the main E to W chain. It tends to form columnar features a bit like the basalt crags in Scotland. Mixed rock quality from good to very bad. You need to be careful when developing routes because big bits tend to fall off without particular warning. However, when cleaned it is OK and without doubt there is immense potential for new routes with the spirit at the moment to develop euro trad style rather than bolts (which I think is good).

Boulderers could note that the scope here is just amazing, in incredibly gorgeous settings, with free bothies, idyllic wild camping, very few people, and so on.

You might not already know that there is a "secret" granite zone in the central southern part of the Lagorai, Cima d'Asta. Here there is heaps of rock climbing, good ice climbing, and a slowly developing (highly secretive) Scottish style mixed climbing scene. The granite is the most similar I have ever seen to Cairngorm granite - pink with fine crystals.

The Lagorai is considered one of the least spoilt areas of the Alps, so I probably shouldn't be putting this into the virtual sphere!

In reply to Erstwhile: Your description of it being like scotland is absolutely cock on. I'm really excited about exploring the area! So where would you recommend I look for more info? Obviously there is the guidebook, but that's just the rock climbing, and when I looked at it, it seemed rather limited in it's scope. Seems there's so much there, but then maybe people just haven't developed it that much?

In reply to mike kann:

Presumably you mean the relatively new Versante Sud rock climbing guide (?)
There is the beige C.A.I. definitive guidebook, which is also new and quite good (heavy going as ever, but masses of info and details). Capellari's Ghiaccio Verticale gives most of the icefalls (some still waiting to be discovered, without doubt).

As you say, rock development is very much W.I.P. The area was always more or less ignored because the rock faces are so small compared to the surrounding Dolomite peaks. Of course "small" here means 200 to 300 metres. The settings are gorgeous, completely differnt from the Dolomites but no less charming in their way.

Importantly the area offers occasional limestone/Dolomite relief therapy for those that live in these parts.

Lots of ski touring guides - the area is rightly famous for that.

Worth knowing that in Val Malena (southern area) you can drive up to Malga Sorgazza and eat and sleep year round in this brilliant little refuge run by my mate Maurizio (friendly prices, icefalls within sight of hut). For summer rock climbing on Cima d'Asta (starting from Malga Sorgazza) you can arrange to get your pack taken up on the service cable car to the refuge taking the sweat out of the walk up.

At some point I'll dig out some more photos.

In reply to Erstwhile: Yeah - that's the one. I'll have a look at the CAI one - I know what you mean by heavy - I have the Sassolungo guide... I saw a ski touring guide the other day, but didn't understand what an attractive area it is. I'll have to pick it up when I go past again. It's funny but my local friend hasn't even heard of the area I don't think... But you're right, after a couple of months of looking at ridiculous limestone walls its a great change of scenery. And especially if there's scottish mixed there... super excited about that! As you've been here for a while, I don't suppose you know the passability of Passo Valles during the winter do you? I suspect it's closed but it cuts the drive down for me...

In reply to Erstwhile: The other thing I was going to ask you was whether it's worth joining the CAI? I've had some pretty poor experiences of them recently, rather pompous instructors who quite frankly got lucky that I didn't chop their ropes and push them off. I'm sure they're not all like that, but I'm wondering if the other benefits outweigh having to deal with il machismo? Just looked at the price of their guidebooks and had difficulty staying on my chair!

In reply to mike kann:

Well, there is a bleeding great hotel place on the pass that claims to be open all winter ... you would need to check though.

In reply to mike kann:
The C.A.I. (or S.A.T. in my area) are a mixed bag but, yes, mostly a bit heavy going (in my experience).
I'm actually on the local committee of our branch - a nice enough crowd, but mostly ex mountaineers who enjoy a good walk or ferrata, well washed down with Teroldego. We do some path maintenance and other "useful" stuff, and (most importantly) form a massive popular/political pressure group to ensure, for example, that clowns on quad bikes are not allowed in the mountains in Trentino (even though "our beloved" leader Berlusconi legalized just about anything off road for his thieving yuppie friends).

Worth joining though for cheap insurance, reduced rates in huts, and big reductions on the guidebooks and other goodies they produce. Needless to say almost none of the "real" climbers have much to do with them (but are nearly all members for the above points).

Hi Mike. I'm a mate of Erstwhile's. I live in Montebelluna about 90 mins from S.Martino & like him (and you now by the sound of it) I'm a big fan of the Lagorai range. I've ski mountaineered & hiked all over them and rock climbed on Cima d'Asta (bolted belays and some intermediate bolts and pegs) and on the awesome black face you see on the way from S.Martino to Passo Rolle. (Via Col Vento and Via Valentino mostly bolted or pegged. Ring belays)
I've done some ice climbing there but no mixed. Erstwhile's done a lot more than me in that respect. As he says, Malga Sorgazza is a good starting point.
This website is worth a squint for some rock info.
http://acustica.ing.unife.it/staff/francesco/roccia/Lagorai_project.htm

There's an outstanding "Classic Traverse" (hillwalking essentially)across the entire range from E to W (or W to E indeed!) which takes 5-6 days. Sleeping under the stars and in some outstanding bivvies. I did it solo (with my dawg) last September and it is one of the finest experiences I've had in the hills!
As far as the CAI is concerned, as Erstwhile says, a mixed bag. Worth joining for the discounts. I qualified as a regional mountaineering instructor with them (for my sins), but the experience unfortunately was a negative one (among numerous things that grated, they didn't like me using a Petzl reverso for abseiling FFS!...nuff said.)
Passo Valles is open all winter. Where are you based? Do you ski mountaineer? Look me up if you're coming this way.

In reply to kean: I believe many moons ago we had some contact actually - I lived in Val Gardena for 6 months. Now I've just bought a place in Rocca Pietore at the foot of Marmolada. We're planning on using it as a holiday let with hopefully 3 apartments to rent. We'll have Sottoguda 5 minutes from the door and most of the best crags within 35-40 minutes drive from us. Seems like Passo Rolle is just another to add to the list!

I'm hoping to be based here a couple of months of the year at least, but it rather depends on how work pans out - all in a state of flux at the minute!

It's got to be said, in the last month or so, I've had one run in with a Trentino guide on Piz Pordoi, and one with these CAI instructors - which were quite simply some of the rudest and most arrogant manoevers I've ever seen performed anywhere in the alps. The first, I offered to let him overtake as I knew he'd be faster - he declined and then proceeded to climb up the next pitch at the same time as me. The other, the CAI instructors turned up as a group of 6, at the back of the queue and then climbed over and under our ropes to the first belay. They then attempted to overtake despite the "clients" not being that fast, and then pushed infront of us on a delicate traverse, with people insitue half way across the traverse. Their clients then proceeded to fall off three times on somebodies head. The best bit was that the second two groups got stuck behind us and were much much slower, so the "head" instructor then had to wait for hours at the top of the route as we finished up and walked off. Indeed we were at the bottom again having a beer by the time the last of them got off the route. It was simply disgraceful behaviour - as I said, both I and my partner had difficulties not punching the blokes lights out. It ruined what was an excellent climb. All the other groups there that day were having a nice relaxed time, chatting in german, english and croatian, making conversation as best we could. We made our displeasure perfectly plain to see and he still did it. I think the only reason I'd join is to track him down and knock his lights out. I think they were the Padova section.

In reply to mike kann: Yup. They hunt in packs...Not clients, but other CAI members doing courses (usually).

In reply to mike kann:
>, I've had one run in with a Trentino guide on Piz Pordoi, and one with these CAI instructors - which were quite simply some of the rudest and most arrogant manoevers I've ever seen performed anywhere in the alps.

I work with a load of local guides and most of them are extremely laid back and anything but offensive. However, once when working with one of these, we had a "run in" with a noxious guide from Val Canale (we were operating in "his" zone). Another guide mate told me that he once tried living over in that area but was constantly hounded and persecuted by the local clique of guides to the point he had to move to our valley (Arco). So I think that it is a very local thing around the Pale di San Martino (pity, because the area is otherwise superb). I really think that overall Italian guides are among the nicest around (Austrians get the thumbs up as well).

As for the C.A.I. instructors,they are all volunteers, and come in all flavours. I have had some quite good (free!) avalanche rescue instruction from them, for example. I can remember some very boring talks, as well. In Trento we have one of the best mountaineering libraries in the world, all care of the same. The whole organization is badly in need of a shake up and a lot of renewal - not the only Italian institution in this category!

In reply to mike kann:
P.S.
I just posted some Lagorai photos in my profile.
Valle dei Mocheni is right beside Trento - a particulary gorgeous looking area.
Cima Cece and Cauriol are central on the main E to W chain.
Cima d'Asta is central-south.