UKC

As per the title, first proper ice trip.

Pros and cons of both, rather keep it on a budget.

Ta!

In reply to jezb1: Spent a few days in Lliaz (a couple of km up the road from Cogne) and La Grave (Although we stayed up the road in a village called Villar D'Arene) last winter. I prefered Lliaz as it was much more peaceful. La Grave has a big busy road on the other side of the valley as well as a ski resort. Lillaz had a few cross country tracks and other climbers, much quieter. Lillaz/Congne also seemed to have more ice (although we may have missed a lot of stuff in La Grave?). Cant really comment on cost as I was tagging along with people who wanted nice accommodation so didn't research the options for budget places. Also will you have a car? I think it would be useful in La Garve but not really needed if you got yourself to Lillaz.

In reply to Olli-C: Cheers, prob no car, trying to research transfers or how to get to either from the airports.

In reply to jezb1:

La Grave is probably easier to reach - as Olli said, it is on a man road and there are plenty of buses to Bourg / alp D'Huez, from there you should be able to get up the hill to La Grave. You can walk (ish) to the nearest ice.

In reply to jezb1: I can't offer comparisons but I went on my first Ice trip this year to Cogne and thought it was brilliant. There were four of us and for a week it cost about 450 including half board accomodation in La Barme (I loved the place and they really tried to fatten us up). We flew into Geneva (I think, at least it was Switzerland) and hired a car. I know you said not hiring a car and I don't know if you can get to Cogne without a car but La Barme was ace, there is loads and loads of ice in the valley and it is totally worth a trip. I'd like to go back that's for sure.

In reply to jezb1: For La Grave, tgv to Grenoble, bus outside the station for Briancon via La Grave.

In reply to jezb1: La Grave has the back up of the skiing if the ice is not in nick.

In reply to Blinder: Most of the skiing at La Grave is pretty serious and full-on, if you are only a part-time skier.

In reply to jezb1: I've been to both venues twice and prefer Cogne. The routes there seem to have more of a big mountain feel to them and are far more scenic, but you wont be disappointed if you choose Le Grave...

In reply to Ian Black:

Surprised you say that Ian, I would have thought it was the other way around.

In reply to Simon4:
There is a couple of ski resorts under an hours drive from Cogne ( I think one was about 30 odd mins and the other more like an hour away)

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Cogne *is* a ski resort.

In reply to Dave Williams:


Does it have anything more than a bit of ski-du-fonde?

In reply to Simon4: has a lot of ski de fond and a (very) small downhill area just outside the town (http://www.cogneturismo.it/datapage.asp?id=90&l=3 )

In reply to Simon4:

Depends what you mean by 'a bit'. There's over 80km of cross country skiing there as well as 9km of piste, 5 groomed downhill runs and 4 lifts.

In reply to Dave Williams:

OK well when we asked the hotel owners for beginner to intermediate downhill pisted skiing (with lifts) they advised us to go further afield.

We went to Pila nr Aosta.

In reply to jezb1: For your first proper ice trip I would have no hesitation at all in saying cogne(with first hand experience in having done la grave as my first ice trip ten years ago, then going to cogne some years after.

The easier routes are much better in cogne, basically in la grave the hard routes are amazing and what people really go for, (especially grand clot area and things like erection) and the easier ones less amazing (like the pylone) although caturgeas is a good route.

Cogne has some big easier ones and I think is much more reliable conditions wise? (certainly post start of feb in la grave you are much more limited due to aspect of the bigger stuff).

Anyway, cogne would get my reccomendation, and if you get knackered you can have an afternoons downhill skiing after a lie in!

In reply to smithaldo:
I think the short walkin stuff around cogne is a fair bit more reliable than La Garve, however there is some higher up areas near La Garve with more of a walk in.

In reply to Simon4: Both venues are very good Simon, but the views just add to the ambiance and big mountain feel. La Grave still has lots to go at but straight choice between the 2 and I'd choose Cogne...

In reply to Ian Black: Fair enough.

I have just been booked to go to Cogne before Christmas, only the 2nd time there. Much more familiar with La Grave (and LOVE the skiing there), but perhaps I am prejudiced against Cogne. My friend certainly prefers it to LG.

I WOULD like to get more ice-climbing done this Winter than last.

In reply to jezb1:
I don't think you could go far wrong with either venue. I found La Grave to have more "après ice", the bars in Valnontey (Cogne) all seemed to close when the ski circuit closed. The walks in at Valnontey are a bit longer, but straight from the door if staying at La Balme. On trip a couple of years ago to Cogne, the ice was good there, but poor elsewhere. So better option for reliability? I think the valley is at a slightly higher altitude.
For digs in La Grave, we have stayed at the Edelweiss twice now, and would go back tomorrow. Easy walk to some classic routes, again from the door.
Enjoy whichever venue you go to.

In reply to jezb1: cheers for the opinions everyone.

Cogne is winning, any travel advice preferably without a hire car?

In reply to Simon4: So do I. Or has someone demolished La Meije? It is one of my favourite alpine views to sit on a bench outside the tourist office at LaGrave and gaze at the northern precipices and ice of the Meije. Much easier to get to La Grave too. And I have been to Cogne, in summer though,

In reply to jezb1:

Is there any cheap accommodation in Cogne though? I'm off to Cogne over New Year. Admittedly I was looking at double rooms but generally speaking Cogne seemed expensive (Probably no more than more expensive than your typical resort). I know there is a really cheap gite in La Grave.

I think visiting La Grave without a car would be a really shame as I presume it would put the likes of Vallon du Diable out of reach, which was the highlight of the region for me.

In reply to Mr. Lee:
Hey Lee,
I've stayed here and can highly recommend it, not too expensive either.

http://www.nigritelles.com/ninglese.html

Stevo

In reply to altirando:

Stunning view, I was probably just across the street, but sitting outside a bar with a drink rather than on a bench. The sight of the North wall of the Ecrins in Winter from the Col du Lautaret is even more compelling in early Spring, like a hedge of spears.

I suppose what Ian meant was that the ice-routes themselves don't feel particularly Alpine, but I am not sure that is correct when you consider some of the big routes on the North side of the valley, not that I have done many of them.

In reply to jezb1: Regarding chains, I know that in France it is usually better to buy them from Supermarkets than hire them as part of the car hire package, anyone know the deal in Italy? Coming from Turin airport.

In reply to Simon4: Avis in Turin Airport included them for free when we rented a car there in January. Not sure if this is standard practise though.

In reply to Mr. Lee: Expensive is a relative term so i don't know if it's any good to you but I stayed at


http://www.hotellabarme.com half board and felt it was good value.

In reply to jezb1: cogne for me, easier walk in to climbs, lots of good easier grade routes if it's your first trip. Stayed at both places recommended and both good, I think Lilaz valley has more to get to easily (although no supermarket if you do stay there) - les Nigritelles has cooking facilities in the spacious rooms which will help with the budget.

In reply to Mr. Lee: Cogne is very popular with Italian families over New Year and prices are at their highest. It gets much cheaper after the holiday period.

In reply to jezb1:

Never been to La Grave, but Briançon is close by. There you have a lot of possibilities in all grades (www.ice-fall.com/), but you might need a car. We've stayed in the gite "L'Aiglière" in Vallouise three times. Cheap and you can either cook yourself or choose half-pension.

Been twice to Cogne. Really great and conditions seem to be more certain as compared to Briançon (so probably also La Grave), but it can be more crowded, especially on the classics. Lillaz Gully is a must-do (as well as the final two pitches of Patry).

In reply to jezb1:

Last winter Cogne had excellent conditions beyond Feb, which is not always the case. I've not been to either for a few years now, but in an 'average' winter (late Dec-early Feb) I would pick Cogne over LaGrave. Lots more routes of a moderate grade, easier to get to, more likely to be in. At LaGrave I've done both LePylon and Coliere du Ciel twice, on both visits there, as both times they were the only things in reasonable nick.

Big mountain feel? I think if some of those big La Grave routes on the left of the road as you drive in ever formed regularly, they would be incredible and to me looked much more daunting and alpine than anything in Cogne - though Cogne does have nice scenery in the background.

I'd def second/third the vote for LaBarme at Cogne, though it's not cheap. I stayed in cheap places in both Cogne and LaGrave (couldn't afford the Edelweiss) though the LaGrave place was like an abandoned mental hospital type hostel thing.

Cogne is famous as a x-c ski destination, all those flat trails, whereas LaGrave is equally famous as a bloody steep off-piste ski destination. I would go elsewhere to ski.

In reply to jezb1: On a day off ice climbing last year I went skiing on the pistes in Cogne. Although they are not extensive, I think there were about 9 of them, I had one of my best days skiing ever. The slopes were quiet and both the lift pass and ski hire were very cheap.

In reply to jezb1: There was another thread recently discussing cars for Cogne. To cut a long story short you need one.

In reply to jezb1: Cheers for all the replies.

Short version is I'm booked up to go to Rjukan now...!

In reply to aostaman:
If you can find a way of getting to lilaz and stay there you don't really need a car for cogne, the only other problem is there aren't any shops in lilaz for getting food.

In reply to jezb1:

What happened to "keeping it on a budget"?

In reply to GridNorth: A few of us going so actually works out not too bad.

In reply to jezb1:

Careful about eating & drinking out - Norway can be eye-wateringly expensive

In reply to Carless: Yeah I know, been to Sweden many times and I know Norway is another step up from there in terms of prices

In reply to jezb1:

But the climbing is super! Should definitely pay a visit to Mael.