/ MTS Winter ML Review - The Final Outcomes
You can view the full report on the review outcomes at the following link:
All of the Winter Mountain leader Syllabus, Guidance notes and Appendices were updated, re-written and restructured to ensure they were clearer and more accessible to candidates. You can view/download the new and revised Winter Mountain Leader Award Handbook at the following link:
The registration process now uses the new Mountain Training on-line digital logbook called DLog. At the moment only those who are registered on the either the Winter ML, Climbing Wall Leading Award or the new Coaching award will be able to view DLog on the Candidate Management System (CMS). Access to DLog will eventually be extended to all other candidates on the other schemes. In the meantime if you are registered on any of the above awards you can view DLog by going to your account on the CMS – once in your account you’ll see the ‘DLOG’ button on the left hand side. Please note you may have to first refresh your browser page to see DLog.
Ermm no. Please read the news item (on the Mountain Training website) there were changes made which is why I linked to the review outcomes there rather than re-write everything here.
Interesting: since when (date) were WML not supposed to run snowhole trips then?
Summer ML = camping
Winter ML = snowholes, of course.
> Interesting: since when (date) were WML not supposed to run snowhole trips then?
> Summer ML = camping
> Winter ML = snowholes, of course.
Since the very beginning of time! :)
Winter MLs have never been validated to lead snowhole trips. People do but it is not covered by the award and never has been. Note: no requirements for Winter Ml to have first been snowholing (there is for Summer Ml as assessment).
People make all sorts of assumptions about this award none of which generally are backed up by the intent or scope of the award.
Well done getting this review published.
I'm having a wee look at the updated WML handbook now. As someone who still thumbs through Langmuir regularly (the book not the man) I find the general trand to gloss-up technical manuals with nice photos a tad disconcerting.
The reasons for doing so appears sound but if folk cannae read a few paragraphs about a course they have invested heavily in before they present themselves for training or assessment they need to ask what they're playing at.
And what's wrong with "neve" as a word?
Thanks for the feedback. The handbook is not a technical manual as such e.g. like Langmuir or Winter Skills. It should contain guidance for candidates about the competences rather than the actual detail. The plan is though (and it is the 21st Century) to embed technical video clips within the handbook - that will help increase the potential technical info without it becoming too prescriptive i.e. if we recommend a specific technique it very quickly becomes the 'Mountain Training Scotland recommended technique'.
I empathise with your sentiments about reading! However the feedback about the older manuals was they were often a bit too wordy without adding anything to what had been said. Mostly what has been done is some heavy editing. The guidance notes for trainers and assessors are going to be available in another document. candidates will be free to access them if they wish. I just got them back from the proof reader so they will be completed by the end of the week and available on-line. Again I'll post to direct any interested parties to them.
Thanks again Craig :)
I was going to ask about Trainer and Assessor guidance so thanks for clearing that up. I hope there will be clear links between the candidate doc and the trainer/assessor one as I think that the old format worked well in that all three appeared together in the relevant sections. This made it clear what was expected of folk so there could be no surprises come assessment.
Do you have any info on the proposed CPD workshops?
Aye, I got the CPD info from the first link George provided (which was from Mountain Training) so I tought he might have info on it.
I was specifically interested in this: "George McEwan stated that there is currently an option under ‘Further Experience’ for award holders to be ‘signed off’ by a suitably experienced technical advisor within site specific schemes/further training to lead snowholes. He also mentioned that MTA are planning on running a series of winter based CPD events this coming winter 2014. One of these events could cover further training in snowholing as CPD."
I fall into the above category and would like the chance to see what current best practise is.
I did a CPD course at the Lodge for WMLs and MICs a few years ago. It was very good value.
What Al said above is spot on :)
MTA CPD weekend http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/eventsdisplay.asp?id=106
The decision was taken to split the Guidance for T and A staff stuff out as it was a/confusing to candidates b/ meant the 'voice' of the writing had to change. Also feedback was vast majority of candidates never read the handbooks in the first place. So I guess it was academic what was in it!
So the main intent of the new handbook is to encourage candidates to actually look at it. In short the older style handbooks did not work. I can only hope the new one is an improvement and does work. Time will tell.
AFAIK Belinda is still putting the January program together so feel free to put a bid in for something specific. If it doesn't fit that weekend we can perhaps arrange something else. If you get stuck and are looking for options drop me a line.
Al, I'm running a snow hole trip the following Monday (27th Jan). Any chance you could pm me details of where you guys have done yer wee dig. Could save me much hard work! ;)
> Since the very beginning of time! :)
> Winter MLs have never been validated to lead snowhole trips. People do but it is not covered by the award and never has been. Note: no requirements for Winter Ml to have first been snowholing (there is for Summer Ml as assessment).
> People make all sorts of assumptions about this award none of which generally are backed up by the intent or scope of the award.
Fair enough, but it seems a massive restriction and suggests that I'm better off without the award: no remit; can't be outwith remit :)
Ultimately you can do whatever you want within the law.....
There are no laws in this country about who can work as a mountain guide, instructor or whatever, and long may it continue...
I'd suggest reading the links above - in the news section. It is explained as it is in the Winter ML handbook.
Bottom line and I've been snowholing with groups for a longer than I care to recall is snow holing is dangerous and is very much experience based. You need to learn it as you go (under supervision). There is little or no margin for error.
However if you read the Further Experience section you'll see there are options to cover this.
FWIW only two people out of everyone who responded to the review specifically asked for this. But then you probably missed this:
But just to save you the bother here is an excerpt from the paper that was discussed by the Boards when asked to consider amending the snow hole section:
"GMc stated that only two respondents had explicitly asked for Winter ML holders to be able to lead overnight snowhole expeditions, whilst one had explicitly stated they should not (all were Winter ML holders). GMc added MTS Winter ML Provider had expressly asked all his candidates (During the season 2012/2013 he trained and assessed a total of 69 Winter ML candidates) about this issue and there was little desire expressed on their part to be able to lead groups snowholing..."
That hardly sound slike the majority of Winter MLs agree it's a short coming.
The Joint Services awards operate under a very tight management structure.
'Civvie' Winter MLs are basically able to operate independently. So you are comparing apples with oranges.
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