UKC

Is UKC in decline ?

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 Dave 15 Oct 2013
Or, more precisely, are the forums in decline ? With a fair amount of lurking and the occasional post over the years I've seemed to find less of interest in the forums recently. That set me wondering if its because there is less forum activity, and therefore less interesting posts, or perhaps I'm just a bit jaded with the whole thing. Having far too much time to waste at work at the moment I analysed forum activity (new messages, authors, topics) using the numbers given in the weekly Top 40 Posters for 2011 to date. Plotting the weekly data and linear regression analysis using a scientific software package (GraphPad Prism for those interested) shows clear declines in all three values from year to year with the exception of 2012 where the decline in numbers of new messages was not significant. The reduction in activity during 2013 so far seems more pronounced than in 2011 and 2012 but, since there is usually an increase in activity in the autumn, this may change with the full year data.

Whats going on ? Is the novelty of UKC waning ? Are other social media taking a toll on activity ? Where will this end ?

Note. I'm not an expert in this sort of data analysis and if anybody else wants to look at the data I'm happy to send the Prism files.
 tlm 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave:

They've all gone to Facebook.

and you haven't even addressed the quality of the messages, or the grammar and spelling, or the volume of climbing related messages versus biscuit related messages...
 planetmarshall 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave: Personally I think the site could do with a bit of an update with respect to mobile-friendliness (perhaps an app of some sort), but I have no idea what resources are available, if any, to do that.

My interests lie mostly in the logbooks and crag maps rather than forum posts as such.

Andrew.
 imkevinmc 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave: I visit the site less often as I find the content has become too diluted with running, biking etc. Climbing is my interest and the site no longer "...does what it says on the tin..." to the same extent.
It would be nice to be able to filter the folders, so that I could make it at least look like "my climbing forum"
 The New NickB 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave:

We have posts like this every 6 months and have for the 10 years I have been using these forums.

It was certainly evolved in that time, more users posting less. I certainly have periods of less interest,but usually get drawn back. I would also say the way that I engage with it has changed.
 Mike Stretford 15 Oct 2013
In reply to imkevinmc:
> (In reply to Dave)

> It would be nice to be able to filter the folders, so that I could make it at least look like "my climbing forum"

You can, click on 'user option' and apply filters.
 The New NickB 15 Oct 2013
In reply to imkevinmc:

You can turn those forums off. I am at least as interested in cycling and running as I am climbing these days, so those forums are a bonus.
KevinD 15 Oct 2013
In reply to imkevinmc:
> (In reply to Dave) I visit the site less often as I find the content has become too diluted with running, biking etc. Climbing is my interest and the site no longer "...does what it says on the tin..." to the same extent.
> It would be nice to be able to filter the folders, so that I could make it at least look like "my climbing forum"

you can:
User Profile
User options - untick the ones you dont like.
 Neil Williams 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave:

Web forums are probably on the way out, at least those not easily accessed via mobiles, like USENET Newsgroups before them. But the quality of debate on here is much higher than almost any FB group I've seen.

Neil
 teflonpete 15 Oct 2013
In reply to imkevinmc:
> (In reply to Dave)
> It would be nice to be able to filter the folders, so that I could make it at least look like "my climbing forum"

Click on your profile name in the top right hand corner, then click on user options on the left and select which forums you want to see on your front page and get updates from.
 Blue Straggler 15 Oct 2013
In reply to The New NickB:
> (In reply to Dave)
>
> We have posts like this every 6 months and have for the 10 years I have been using these forums.

I think the "Is UKC in decline?" threads are in decline
 Milesy 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave:
> shows clear declines in all three values from year to year with the exception of 2012 where the decline in numbers of new messages was not significant. The reduction in activity during 2013 so far seems more pronounced than in 2011 and 2012 but, since there is usually an increase in activity in the autumn, this may change with the full year data.

Have you factored in weather conditions into your sums? How does UKC use vary depending on the potential for actually getting climbing done? I am sure a wet summer would see more posts than a stonking summer.
 teflonpete 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to The New NickB)
> [...]
>
> I think the "Is UKC in decline?" threads are in decline


They're just not as good as they used to be, bit like nostalgia. ;0)
 teflonpete 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Milesy:
> (In reply to Dave)
> [...]
>
> Have you factored in weather conditions into your sums? How does UKC use vary depending on the potential for actually getting climbing done? I am sure a wet summer would see more posts than a stonking summer.

And it depends on the time of day, which day of the week and so on.
 ripper 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave:
is decline in decline?
In reply to teflonpete:
I admit I'm here less than I used to be, guess I got a life.
 teflonpete 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Hannah S:
> (In reply to teflonpete)
> I admit I'm here less than I used to be, guess I got a life.

It seems like a lot of people are. I didn't post much for a while as I was studying OU courses at work, came back and loads of people are gone. If you can't be bothered to have a row about religion, there isn't much going on.
 Offwidth 15 Oct 2013
In reply to The New NickB:

I'd say it's having a bit of an upsurge recently often driven by news (where UKC is excellent). When the forums started it was way more of an experienced climbers clubby atmosphere; these days its let down by a few too many folk posting twaddle on climbing. On UKB such posters get short shrift and the site is a lot better for it plus they have karma to emphasise that intolerence to climbing crap... check out what happened to jcm or sloper over there. Plus there are the problems around moderatation and banning that has lost characters here that a softer moderation policy on UKB or Supertopo would have retained. Banning on UKC can really hurt as it removes access to all you personnal information on logbooks (I for one would like to see a half ban to make lesser punishments fit the crime...ie no access to forums but probationary access to logbooks subject to better behaviour). The missing climbers take their missing experience and advice.
OP Dave 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to The New NickB)
>
> I'd say it's having a bit of an upsurge recently often driven by news (where UKC is excellent).

It might appear so to you but the data shows that over the last couple of months forum activity is the lowest it has been over the period I've analysed, 2011 to date.
 link 15 Oct 2013
In reply to planetmarshall:
> (In reply to Dave) Personally I think the site could do with a bit of an update with respect to mobile-friendliness (perhaps an app of some sort), but I have no idea what resources are available, if any, to do that.

The Arbtalk forum (like UKC but for people with chainsaws) uses an app called Tapatalk to make things easy on a mobile device. It works well.

> My interests lie mostly in the logbooks and crag maps rather than forum posts as such.

This in my opinion is the best resource here over the forums

 ericinbristol 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave:

Less does not necessarily mean decline. Could be fewer crap posts and more considered ones.
 Milesy 15 Oct 2013
Could you also factor in a decrease because the amount of useful information is starting to reach a plateau? By that I mean the information on the site has caught up with what people are looking for and asking for? People might be searching existing content more. The log books are busier and therefor contain more beta and useful information, including crag topos and photos.

There could be dozens of reasons which mean less people are actively posting on the forums rather than "the forums are shite"
OP Dave 15 Oct 2013
> Have you factored in weather conditions into your sums? How does UKC use vary depending on the potential for actually getting climbing done? I am sure a wet summer would see more posts than a stonking summer.

Thats an interesting point and certainly could be a confounding factor which might explain the lower number of posts this summer compared to 2011 and 2012. However in general the reduction in the number of topics and authors has been steadily going down since at least the beginning of 2011.

 Andy Hardy 15 Oct 2013
In reply to ripper:
> (In reply to Dave)
> is decline in decline?

No, decline is having an upsurge at the moment.

Does anybody remember when Viz started printing letters about how it wasn't as funny as it used to be...?
In reply to Neil Williams:

> Web forums are probably on the way out, at least those not easily accessed via mobiles, like USENET Newsgroups before them.

Ha! I remember with fondness the youarsey days, and still have a t-shirt somewhere. But I think there's always an element of churn; people get older, have less time to spare, or give up either climbing or webbery and go and do other things with their time.

Paradoxically, since I retired a couple of months ago and so in theory have more time to spend posting nonsense on web forums, I have found myself posting less. Life intervenes, and this site gets pushed down the priority list. The time and energy I have has been saved for other things. I shan't be leaving, I'm just not posting as much as once I did.

> But the quality of debate on here is much higher than almost any FB gro I've seen.

I've recently been paying a little more attention to FB as a means of staying in touch with friends and ex-colleagues. As a networking tool I like it; as a forum for debate, I found it so bad I didn't even bother trying.

Despite the inevitable ups and downs, the trolling, arguments, mounting of high horses and all the rest of the local colour that makes up this site, there remain some high quality diamonds in the rough.

T.
 Offwidth 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave:

I don't care about numbers of posts its what they say inside that matters. The quality of UKC was best near the start, it got a lot worse then bobbled up and down from time to time but never really got close to the early days.
 Offwidth 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Milesy: I know a small number of people who left because they were banned and they still feel sore (especially if they had extensive logbook info) I know people who left because they though some bannings of pals or the subsequent stuff around them were unfair, I know people who left because they felt things did get a lot worse when the site really got popular. They are genuine so I don't think a 'rose timted specs' theory would go down well with them. Some got busier (or a life), some spotted a potential addiction and stopped wasting time here, some didnt get the attention they wanted and sulked off etc , so sure it wasnt everyone who left that had reasons around real quality.

Logbooks are an astonishingly useful tool but much more so in terms of logging stuff.
 Blue Straggler 15 Oct 2013
In reply to teflonpete:
> (In reply to Blue Straggler)
> [...]
>
>
> They're just not as good as they used to be, bit like nostalgia. ;0)

Saying "nostalgia isn't what it used to be" isn't what it used to be.


That's my screenplay for "Inception Pt. 2".

 Ava Adore 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave:

There are far too few threads on relationships and food. That's all I visit for.
 Toerag 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave: Is it because people have moved across to UKB? I also find the forums lacking in features/functionality such as smileys, and don't even get me started on how useless the search function is! The quality of posters is generally good with plenty of intelligent people, but we'd really benefit from some decent forum software.
 Offwidth 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Toerag:

It's little to nothing to do with format. UKC regularly asks its members to provide feedback and they design to meet majority needs and respond well to good ideas. For instance for every smiley lover there is someone who hates the things. As for software UKC is bespoke and simple which means I can read it when other sites get blocked or my bandwidth is low on some foreign trip. UKB is very much part of the problem as some of the most knowledgable climbers that used to post here have moved over there.
 Pete Pozman 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave: I used to spend a lot of time on the FRA forums but it sort of went off the boil a bit as topics kept coming back up again. Maybe that's it with all forums that you're going to get bored with them after a bit. Still very useful for finding stuff out though.
 xplorer 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave:

Definitely noticed a lack of interesting posts over the last few months.

Incredible amount of negative comments by people.
 Enty 15 Oct 2013
In reply to xplorer:
> (In reply to Dave)

>
> Incredible amount of negative comments by people.

:O

E

 Cuthbert 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave:

I've noticed a huge decline in climbing related posts and posts by climbers I know. I can think of ten people at least who I know are still climbing but don't post here anymore.
 Banned User 77 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave: I've been using UKC since 2002.. I reckon this comes up eevry 18 months.. 'its not the same'.. 'the characters are gone'.. 'I'm off'.. its always had peaks and troughs.. thats life.

Agree re the FRA I get into some interesting threads.. then nothing will interest me for months.. There's only so many times you can read about Stolly's BG attempts..

But it is generally pretty good and reliable because some very experienced runners post and will point out rubbish.
In reply to Dave:
> Or, more precisely, are the forums in decline ?

Yes.

Once at top there is only one direction to go
In reply to Offwidth:

No you can still access your logbook if you're banned. You have to click on logbooks => my logbook though, rather than just going through your profile.
Kipper 15 Oct 2013
In reply to Toerag:
> (In reply to Dave) Is it because people have moved across to UKB?

I wouldn't have thought so - what do they get; 10 posts a day?
 Kimono 15 Oct 2013
In reply to planetmarshall:
> (In reply to Dave) Personally I think the site could do with a bit of an update with respect to mobile-friendliness (perhaps an app of some sort), but I have no idea what resources are available, if any, to do that.

Forget it. There have been many threads asking for this, one only a few months ago where the site owners were promising change and....
....nothing!
I have never known a website so resistant to change

 Offwidth 17 Oct 2013
In reply to willexodus:

Is that new, or does it depend on the ban??
 Raskye 17 Oct 2013
In reply to Kimono:
> I have never known a website so resistant to change

Not only change, but criticism. I complained when they took ages to make Bonatti's death a news item, they made spurious excuses about 'waiting for Luca to make a fitting obituary'. All it took was a mention until Luca provided.

They're quick to report 'News' within their realm but in the real world, forget it.
 Offwidth 18 Oct 2013
In reply to Kipper:

"(In reply to Dave) Is it because people have moved across to UKB?

I wouldn't have thought so - what do they get; 10 posts a day?"

For those on the other channel who belive in Karma: what a day to choose to say that with the G interview n'all.
 Jus 18 Oct 2013
In reply to Dave:

It is much better than it used to be as far as articles, news and media content.

I don't visit the forums much now and havent done for years - Facebook is probably to blame for that!
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to willexodus)
>
> Is that new, or does it depend on the ban??

I don't know, but on my account that got banned (about a year ago) if I clicked on my profile it just said 'currently restricted', with no option to click on my logbook from my profile, but I could still access it in the way I described. Looking at other posters who are banned their profiles say the same thing, so I would guess they can probably also still get onto their logbook.


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