/ Kalymnos mopeds

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
steve4736 - on 20 Oct 2013
Is it just me our is the number of mopeds careering around Kalynos not becoming a serious detraction from the whole atmosphere of the place? I arrived by bicycle and am constantly in the wake of these noisy and polluting little horrors.Most of the crags are no more than a couple of kms away and could easily be done on foot or bicycle.Are climbers really so lazy and soft?
remus - on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736: When you say 'most crags are no more than a couple of kms' I assume you're referring to the section between poets and odyssey? Crags like Ghost Kitchen, Sikati cave, Arhi etc. are a fair bit further (5, 7.5 and 3.5 miles resp.) and personally im not very keen to add a 10 mile trudge along the road on to an already pretty tiring day. I didn't see anywhere to hire bicycles, though I wasn't looking particularly hard.

Not to say the mopeds aren't annoying, but they're certainly very useful if you want to visit any of the more out of the way crags.
Blue Straggler - on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:

I used a car when I was there! But we had diving gear as well as climbing stuff to cart around, and greater distances to cover.

Kalymnos is pretty devoid of atmosphere anyway, being somewhat barren etc, so there was not much to detract from it in the first place...
steve4736 - on 20 Oct 2013
Granted there are outlying crags but you can hire bicycles (I'm sure alot more if there was the demand) most of the mopeds are parked below the crags local to the accommodation as I see it.
steve4736 - on 20 Oct 2013
Not much to detract from? How about peace and quiet?!!!
Blue Straggler - on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:
> Not much to detract from? How about peace and quiet?!!!

You clearly have somehow managed to escape being within earshot of groups of Italian climbers at the Grande Grotte then! I'd rather listen to moped engines than hear that lot shrieking and carrying on :-)
r0x0r.wolfo - on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:
> Is it just me our is the number of mopeds careering around Kalynos not becoming a serious detraction from the whole atmosphere of the place? I arrived by bicycle and am constantly in the wake of these noisy and polluting little horrors.Most of the crags are no more than a couple of kms away and could easily be done on foot or bicycle.Are climbers really so lazy and soft?

Yes. I like the idea of polluting when no doubt most climbers drive cars in this country whilst those scooters will do about 80-100+ mpg. Most have 2 people on them too, and you can park loads of them without much fuss. Are far as going cragging they're great, especially going to ahri, aginonta etc.The 2 strokes are noisy though. I don't see many people on bikes in the peak district, lots of guzzling larger cars and 4x4s though. You're on holiday, relax, if you want some peace and quiet have a day at kastri or something.
steve4736 - on 20 Oct 2013
Talk about missing the point! I was under the mistaken impression that climbers were conscientious types,sensitive to affecting their environment and willing to put a little effort in to get to a crag. By the replies I have got to this thread this is a wrong impression and apologise to all those out there who don't give a **** about the world around them. I give up!
Blue Straggler - on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:
> Talk about missing the point! I was under the mistaken impression that climbers were conscientious types,sensitive to affecting their environment and willing to put a little effort in to get to a crag.

How did you get to Kalymnos?
r0x0r.wolfo - on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736: Do you own a car? I don't I use public transport to get to the crag. Grow up, you can't pick and choose when to decide to be environmentally responsible. As someone has mentioned, you are flying 4 hours across the world for a bit of winter sun, you are hardly one to harp about co2 emissions. Scooters are extremely cheap and efficient on petrol use and the fact that the island is 90% that kind of transport means that they are probably produce much less co2 on transport per capita than we do in our own country. Stop moaning, you are on holiday.
johnnorman on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to steve4736)
> [...]
>
> How did you get to Kalymnos?



pmsl

johnnorman on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:


I can only assume you are refering to the local people.
Many Greeks don`t have much money so the moped is a great cheaper option, i suggest you stay at home if you don`t like the way the locals live.
steve4736 - on 20 Oct 2013
You guys are wrong on all counts I'm afraid-I cycled all the way from UK and don't own a car, but that is beside the point- all I wanted to say is that all the mopeds (vast majority ridden by climbers on mostly unnecessary journeys) zipping around had changed t he character of a once peaceful and relatively unspoilt island.
hedgepig - on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:
There is a regular bus service up and down the whole length of the road. The times fit well with the climbing day and tickets cost about a euro. It may seem restricting to use a timetabled bus, but it works much like a ski-lift - up after breakfast, home just before dark. I have been offered unsolicited lifts by locals when walking back along that road, they're generally keen on climbers. and for Telendos there is the boat. But it can be quite hard to find out about the public transport options in advance, and there are different winter and summer timetables. The climb Kalymnos website could possibly do better in this respect.
I was more afraid that the moped riders were going to fall off the edge of the road due to only having learned to ride one that morning.
In reply to steve4736:
> all I wanted to say is that all the mopeds (vast majority ridden by climbers on mostly unnecessary journeys) zipping around had changed the character of a once peaceful and relatively unspoilt island.

The climbers have changed the island true; they have extended (doubled) the tourist season and brought a very welcome revenue stream with a loads of extra cash flowing into to the place.

Personally I think the scooters are horrible, noisy, smelly and dangerous, but they help a lot of folks have great holidays.


Chris



Blue Straggler - on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:

The sponge blight of the early 70s changed the character of Kalymnos. I might start a thread about that.
steve4736 - on 20 Oct 2013
You do that.....
r0x0r.wolfo - on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736: Why don't you start a thread about people driving to font instead of a few climbers who will spend all of a tenner on fuel in two weeks.
woolsack - on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:
>Are climbers really so lazy and soft?

It's sport climbing ffs. Mopeds fit entirely into this most manufactured branch of the sport. Fair play to you cycling from Kos to Kaly though

Postmanpat on 20 Oct 2013
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to steve4736)
> [...]
>
> Personally I think the scooters are horrible, noisy, smelly and dangerous, but they help a lot of folks have great holidays.
>
They aldo help a lot of locals make a living

ads.ukclimbing.com
steve4736 - on 21 Oct 2013
Why are replies on forums so full of inaccurate assumptions, spurious and flippant comments? I wish people would read the original post carefully and make constructive replies. Or maybe that is as wishful a thought as thinking that anybody might share concern about the mopeds!!!
icnoble on 21 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736: My wife and I are here in Kalymnos for 3 weeks. We are both in our late 50's and both have stressful jobs, so we are tired. Also my wife had mortons neuromas removed from her feet about 10 years ago. Even now she finds it painful to walk distances of more than half a mile or so. This is the main reason that after a week here we are hiring a scooter. It means we can get to the climbing sectors when they are in the shade without relying on the local transport. It is not ideal but what do you suggest as an alternative? Also this huge influx of people to the island is a massive boost to the economy, the owner of the apartment we are in is thankful for the revenue.
steve4736 - on 21 Oct 2013
With all due respect your situation is not typical. The local economy would not collapse with less scooters- they are only benefiting a few locals. I'm sure many locals hate the beastly things as well!!
icnoble on 21 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736: How many have you asked?


r0x0r.wolfo - on 21 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736: Why are they beastly?
1) They take up little room which kalymnos is quite short of.
2) Contribute to the economy
3) Are economical on petrol/emissions especially the 4 strokes.
4) The locals all ride them as well so nothing strange or unfamilar,
5) Are rarely rode passengerless so used efficiently.
6) They aren't likely to cause major damage as they are restricted to around 30 mph and are relatively very light.
7) They allow people to move with the sun and get more climbing in, the locals want climbers to enjoy themselves and come back having felt they got their moneys worth.
8) They are cheap to rent and run and locals want climbers to come back having felt they have had their moneys worth.
9) They allow climbers to travel round to other areas, spreading the income to places like emborios, vathi and others.
10) They allow climbers to visit other than the honey pot crags and allow development further affield from massouri increasing the number/variety of routes making kalymnos an even better destination to visit and spend money.

Any more you need? Yes they are noisy, in particular the 2 strokes which are a higher pitch sound, I give you that.
tjekel - on 21 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736: usually going to kaly in the warmer months, so shade is essential, and the bus time table does not really reflect this. We usually lk mot thing up to kastelli, but beyond in the hot son is no fun however early you get up. Solution could be buses at say 6.30 and 7.30am and one back around noon ...
.
Postmanpat on 21 Oct 2013
In reply to r0x0r.wolfo:

>
> Any more you need? Yes they are noisy, in particular the 2 strokes which are a higher pitch sound, I give you that.

Agree with all your points. Really they are not all that noisy. A bit of a nuisance in Massouri itself but I barely remember hearing them from the crags.
steve4736 - on 21 Oct 2013
You can come up with justifications til you're blue in the face, but wouldn't it be nicer if there were fewer of them? It sounds like the starting grid of a formula 1 race in Massuri every morning at the moment!!
kipper12 - on 21 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736: I have not long come back and the scooters are annoying, and there is a very noticeable increase in cars now, we had one and it was great for shifting 5 of us about. I missed it, but there was a Q&A session as part of the 2013 festival, and part of the discussion was on transport. One option discussed was using electric scooters which are expensive and apparently climbers are perceived as being mean and unwilling to cough up.

Equally, there was a shuttle bus operated but it failed due to opposition from taxi drivers. I think a few electric shuttles using solar power would be an option. I cant imagine more petrol powered personal transport is the answer.
Blue Straggler - on 21 Oct 2013
In reply to r0x0r.wolfo:
> (In reply to steve4736) Why are they beastly?
> 1) They take up little room which kalymnos is quite short of.
> 2) Contribute to the economy
> 3) Are economical on petrol/emissions especially the 4 strokes.
> 4) The locals all ride them as well so nothing strange or unfamilar,
> 5) Are rarely rode passengerless so used efficiently.
> 6) They aren't likely to cause major damage as they are restricted to around 30 mph and are relatively very light.
> 7) They allow people to move with the sun and get more climbing in, the locals want climbers to enjoy themselves and come back having felt they got their moneys worth.
> 8) They are cheap to rent and run and locals want climbers to come back having felt they have had their moneys worth.
> 9) They allow climbers to travel round to other areas, spreading the income to places like emborios, vathi and others.
> 10) They allow climbers to visit other than the honey pot crags and allow development further affield from massouri increasing the number/variety of routes making kalymnos an even better destination to visit and spend money.
>
> Any more you need? Yes they are noisy, in particular the 2 strokes which are a higher pitch sound, I give you that.

I think the OP is concerned SOLELY with the noise.

John W - on 21 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:

Ever get the feeling that you're in a significant minority?

You obviously have an issue with these "beastly things" / "little horrors" - the vast majority of posters on this thread clearly do not.

You asked in the OP "Is it just me?" - you now have your answer, so let it go.
Enty - on 21 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:

Business oportunity? cheap hybrid bikes with a panier rack big enuogh for a sport sack and rope?
I'd go for one of these over a scooter.

E
r0x0r.wolfo - on 21 Oct 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to r0x0r.wolfo)
> [...]
>
> I think the OP is concerned SOLELY with the noise.

Yes I see that. He doesn't give a shit about the island, he just wants some peace and quiet whilst on holiday. I get it.

Anyone saying that a 50cc scooter sounds like an F1 car needs to have their ears tested.

They are slowly encouraging 4 strokes over 2, which is a decent thing. Better for environment/even more economical, they also make a much less annoying sound. Cars are not the answer, there is little space to park already in massouri (which is why locals usually don't bother with them), not to mention the parking for some crags. Kastri for example you will struggle to get more than 2 cars there but a dozen scooters will fit. I don't know many people who travel in groups of 5 to the crag, not doubting that you did, it's just not the norm. 2 scooters for a group of 4 is miles better to be honest, they're still 1/10th the cubic capacity of a 1l car combined and caters for most partners to have autonomy and travel in the most economical way.

Electric scooters/cars have their own problem, this is a small greek island, not tokyo. This is a place where you after to order a wifi booster from Athens and it takes weeks to arrive costing far more than it should. Electric powered vehicles are expensive, and have expensive and heavy batteries that have a limited lifespan. There just isn't the infastructure to support it, everyone is in apartments which would make powering the vehicles overnight next to impossible. The apartments would also have to raise prices considerably for the extra electricity used(they charge an extra 5 euros a night at most places for working aircon). If something goes wrong, they aren't nearly as easy to fix. Also, I don't mind hearing the scooter coming whilst walking around massouri shopping or to a restraunt, I do appreciate the heads up. I'm afraid it's not even remotely viable for the island, I could go on but I won't.

I like that these things are taken seriously and these ideas would be awesome if they were workable. The scooters represent life on the island and are an efficient method of getting around. There is a reason why the locals all ride them, and I don't care if Steve from Milton Keynes(?) thinks they're too noisy. They aren't even that loud, if you don't like the sound of a tiny engine I think you are pretty much stuck when you are climbing on roadside crags. Want peace and quiet Steve? Don't be so lazy and climb something over an hour from the road.
Phill Mitch - on 21 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736: We just got back, we had scooters (again), we loved it. The climbing sectors within walking distance are now so crowded we went to Polionisis Bay, Polionisis Red wall, Sekati Cave, and Ghost kitchen. I would imagine if you walked from Masouri to those sectors and back each day you would spend most of your holiday walking and get no climbing done.
We also rode our scooters to the taverna in Polionisis bay at least 4 times to spread our custom and enjoy the wonderful place, I don't think they were bothered how we got there.
Another day we rode to Vathy for a look and took our custom there I didn't see them turning their nose up at our custom either.
I do think if the bus service was developing as fast as the climbing then more people would use it. We have used the bus before, if you manage to squeeze on the only one in the morning, then you are faced with a wait of 2 to 3 hours for the only one back. The sun makes climbing too hot after about 2pm and the bus dose not come until 6pm! A bus every half hour say 8.30- 9.00- and 9.30. then 2.30- 3.00- and 3.30 would be great, but still won't get you to Polionisis Bay!
icnoble on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to tjekel:
> (In reply to steve4736) usually going to kaly in the warmer months, so shade is essential, and the bus time table does not really reflect this. We usually lk mot thing up to kastelli, but beyond in the hot son is no fun however early you get up. Solution could be buses at say 6.30 and 7.30am and one back around noon ...
> .

I don't think the scooter rental owners would like this solution!! But seriously, the Kalymnions have done a great job in looking after the climbers and scooters are part of the mix.
steve4736 - on 22 Oct 2013
Ok I accept few people on this forum share my view on this, but as a Parthian shot I suggest that the vociferous defences of mopeds hide some guilty consciences on the matter-
"The lady doth protest too much, me thinks!"
woolsack - on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:
> You guys are wrong on all counts I'm afraid-I cycled all the way from UK and don't own a car, but that is beside the point- all I wanted to say is that all the mopeds (vast majority ridden by climbers on mostly unnecessary journeys) zipping around had changed t he character of a once peaceful and relatively unspoilt island.

Aside from the obvious chip resting on your shoulder from cycling all the way from the UK, do you actually remember Kalymnos pre-mopeds?
Cellinski - on 22 Oct 2013
I don't see why most people think the scooters are economical on gas. They are not, but are terrible guzzlers. With 2 tall persons on them, with luggage and going up- and downhill like you do to get to Secret Garden, we did not more than ~40mpg. My car back home (Skoda Octavia) does more than that!
woolsack - on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to Cellinski:
> I don't see why most people think the scooters are economical on gas. They are not, but are terrible guzzlers. With 2 tall persons on them, with luggage and going up- and downhill like you do to get to Secret Garden, we did not more than ~40mpg. My car back home (Skoda Octavia) does more than that!

We pushed the choke in on ours, it went much faster as well
jalien on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to Cellinski:

a good compromise would be a fleet of electric bicycles with large panniers - quiet, easy to charge in apartments or campsites, good for the environment, and you can get a pretty good range out of them.

They are still fairly expensive, but can't cost much more than a petrol scooter
ads.ukclimbing.com
r0x0r.wolfo - on 22 Oct 2013
The best scooters in the best conditions do about 140+ mpg. Yes if you are driving uphill, on a twisty road, into a headwind, a bit overweight, dragging a dead goat carcass then your mileage will vary. Maybe on kalymnos you are only getting about 80 out of them. I did laps of the island over 3 weeks. We went everywhere, twice, not just cragging. Still used under 20 quids worth of petrol. It is moronic to say that your 2l car does better mpg. You should have gotten a larger/seperate scooters if you were struggling that much.
Gus - on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:

Scooters are all part of the fun of Kalymnos, at least as much fun as the climbing.

They also allow to spread the load of people out from the popular crags, and allow exploration of the island, opening of new routes and development of new cliffs. (and accessing the fantastic "pirate bar")

Get over it innit.

Gus - on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736:

Whoever mentioned starting a thread on the 1970's Kalymnos "sponge blight" that's a great idea, would be really interested to see that.

And also whoever made the cycling from kos to Kalymnos comment, nice work, that must be some badass Roger Moore style bike conversion!
r0x0r.wolfo - on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to Gus: It's mainland greece to kos I'm thinking about!
Morgan Woods - on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to r0x0r.wolfo:
> (In reply to Blue Straggler)
> [...]
>
The scooters represent life on the island and are an efficient method of getting around. There is a reason why the locals all ride them, and I don't care if Steve from Milton Keynes(?) thinks they're too noisy. They aren't even that loud, if you don't like the sound of a tiny engine I think you are pretty much stuck when you are climbing on roadside crags. Want peace and quiet Steve? Don't be so lazy and climb something over an hour from the road.

quite right....i find the noise from traffic at Tremadog, worse than anything i've experienced in Kalymnos.
icnoble on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to steve4736: Just had my first day on a scooter, 150cc 4 stroke. I had a chuckle as we were setting off for the crags, the owner of the little supermarket near our studio zipped past on a little scooter. I don't supposed you will read this as you spat your dummy out earlier!!
In reply to steve4736:

Not completely relevant but I wonder how many people know that the scooters don't necessarily live on Kalymnos. I don't know where they come from, but at each end of each season the get shipped in/out to somewhere on big lorries,


Chris
Belly1 - on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to icnoble:
A bit of a comedown from the Kawasaki 750 in your garage, hope you can handle the power. I reckon this thread was just an excuse to gloat about your 3 week break in Kaly.
icnoble on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to Belly1: Luckily I have a bike licence so I could get a scooter with a bit more power.

icnoble on 22 Oct 2013
In reply to Chris Craggs: The place we have rented from said we could get a scooter if we came next March

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.