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Hypothetically, if a local council thinks you owe them around £1000 and you disagree and refuse to pay, can anyone enlighten me about how things progress? (I assume small claims court?)
If you have no fixed address and are infact not resident in the UK, does this make any difference to court options the council has?
If you have no fixed address and are infact not resident in the UK, does this make any difference to court options the council has?
In reply to henwardian: For a grand (and assuming it's council tax) they can eventually put you in jail (if they can catch you). Your UK credit rating will be monumentally stuffed as you'll have an unsatisfied default on your record - but generally, if you live abroad and don't intend to come to the UK and apply for any credit the effect'll be pretty minimal.
In reply to andy: I'm temporarily abroad and can't really afford to burn my bridges that thoroughly!
It's rent, not council tax.
I thought that mayhaps they need you to actually be in the country before they can start court proceedings, etc. No? :S
It's rent, not council tax.
I thought that mayhaps they need you to actually be in the country before they can start court proceedings, etc. No? :S
In reply to henwardian: I think rent arrears are different, in that they can't send you to jail. They can certainly register a charge against you (and probably would to avoid any time-barring if they don't start proceedings), but generally they need to know where you are before they can actually do anything.
However, when you come back you'd find it difficult/impossible to buy or rent anywhere that required a credit check, as you'd show as having unsatisfied rent arrears/CCJ. If you genuinely believe you don't owe them the money then can't you just contest it?
However, when you come back you'd find it difficult/impossible to buy or rent anywhere that required a credit check, as you'd show as having unsatisfied rent arrears/CCJ. If you genuinely believe you don't owe them the money then can't you just contest it?
In reply to henwardian:
Hypothetically. Why would you not want to pay?
Hypothetically. Why would you not want to pay?
In reply to henwardian: I don't really want to write a diatribe about who said what when and how that relates to how much rent I should have been paying.
But basically there was an ongoing disagreement and the most recent part has been me offered to pay what I see as a fair settlement and them essentially ignoring my offer and saying "pay it all now".
I'm not really sure how to go about contesting something... I assume it is a time consuming process I have to be in the UK to do?
But basically there was an ongoing disagreement and the most recent part has been me offered to pay what I see as a fair settlement and them essentially ignoring my offer and saying "pay it all now".
I'm not really sure how to go about contesting something... I assume it is a time consuming process I have to be in the UK to do?
In reply to henwardian: WARNING: I AM NOT LEGALLY QUALIFIED - THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. You don't have to be resident in this country for Court proceedings to begin. The Pursuers can (eventually) ask the Sheriff for Walls of Court Service - essentially a form posted on a board in the Court's public office that no-one ever looks at unless they are waiting to be served. As for contesting it, you would have to first be aware that the case has begun and then you would need to appear in court on the hearing date or be represented by a solicitor. The problem for the pursuers would not be getting decree but actually enforcing it if you are overseas. Like a previous poster said a decree would mess up your credit rating but if you paid it in full you could seek a Certificate of Satisfaction from the Pursuers, present this to the credit agencies and this would go a long way to improving your record - although it won't expunge the decree which would remain there for six years.
Q - Which jurisdiction are you in?
If scotland it's small claims and a sheriff court. Turn UP! most people don't, get someone to review your side of the argument. A handy check to see if your living in fantast land.
£1000 seems like a lot but if you ignore it you'll really struggle to get a mortgage in 10 years time, and this is very likely to be UK wide.
If scotland it's small claims and a sheriff court. Turn UP! most people don't, get someone to review your side of the argument. A handy check to see if your living in fantast land.
£1000 seems like a lot but if you ignore it you'll really struggle to get a mortgage in 10 years time, and this is very likely to be UK wide.
In reply to henwardian:
A typical scenario for collecting small debts is often along the lines of:
1. They write nasty threatening letters about bailiffs etc.
2. They pass the debt to debt collectors who write more nasty letters
3. The pass the debt to another debt collector who write more nasty letters
4. They might, but not always, call round your house to persuade you to pay (don't answer to strangers).
5. They lose interest, writing occasional nasty letter
6. They try to offer you a deal: e.g. pay off just half the amount by such and such a dateto clear the whole debt
7. They give up on you as a lost cause
If you're NFA I'd say you've got nothing to worry about. They can't even write to you.
A typical scenario for collecting small debts is often along the lines of:
1. They write nasty threatening letters about bailiffs etc.
2. They pass the debt to debt collectors who write more nasty letters
3. The pass the debt to another debt collector who write more nasty letters
4. They might, but not always, call round your house to persuade you to pay (don't answer to strangers).
5. They lose interest, writing occasional nasty letter
6. They try to offer you a deal: e.g. pay off just half the amount by such and such a dateto clear the whole debt
7. They give up on you as a lost cause
If you're NFA I'd say you've got nothing to worry about. They can't even write to you.
In reply to stp: You are forgetting step 8.
8. They take you to court.
Never underestimate how much council tax payers money a council is prepared to spend in order to get money from those who can least afford to pay it.
8. They take you to court.
Never underestimate how much council tax payers money a council is prepared to spend in order to get money from those who can least afford to pay it.
In reply to ByEek:
Would agree with that, in recent years councils have toughen their attitudes and you can be sure they will prosecute at some point. If you are abroad they have to dispatch an official to serve you the courts paper in person, which almost never happens.
If you are living in another EU country they can seek an European Enforcement Order, but from what I understand the UK legal system is so different from the rest of Europe, that it will fail every time.
One thing is sure your credit score in the UK will be wiped out whatever happens, but as long as you don't live there you'll be fine.
> (In reply to stp) You are forgetting step 8.
>
> 8. They take you to court.
>
> Never underestimate how much council tax payers money a council is prepared to spend in order to get money from those who can least afford to pay it.
>
> 8. They take you to court.
>
> Never underestimate how much council tax payers money a council is prepared to spend in order to get money from those who can least afford to pay it.
Would agree with that, in recent years councils have toughen their attitudes and you can be sure they will prosecute at some point. If you are abroad they have to dispatch an official to serve you the courts paper in person, which almost never happens.
If you are living in another EU country they can seek an European Enforcement Order, but from what I understand the UK legal system is so different from the rest of Europe, that it will fail every time.
One thing is sure your credit score in the UK will be wiped out whatever happens, but as long as you don't live there you'll be fine.
In reply to henwardian: Further to previous advice, they can issue a CCJ against you in your absence, this will stay on your credit file for seven years and the only people you'll get credit from in that situation would make Wonga loans look like a sparkling pillar of morality. In short, if you intend to return to the UK and feel you are in the right, contest it now before it gets to court. A subject access request to the council asking for all the supporting documentation they have that surrounds the subject would be a good place to start. That way you can see what they are basing their case on and build up your side prior to defending your position to them. If I recall, they have forty days to respond to your request with a full disclosure of documents once you have formally notified them that you dispute the debt and have made the SAR. For more detail I'd suggest you visit this site: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=we... The forums are very helpful.
In reply to ByEek:
Taking someone to court is step 2 for Council Tax at least, not sure about rent arrears.
Taking someone to court is step 2 for Council Tax at least, not sure about rent arrears.
In reply to henwardian:
You could make a case to the Housing Ombudsman, it will delay any court proceedings and they may find in your favour.
You could make a case to the Housing Ombudsman, it will delay any court proceedings and they may find in your favour.
In reply to RomTheBear:
No they don't. They can get a CCJ without you being there.
Because they can issue a CCJ without you being there.
> (In reply to ByEek)
> [...]
>
> Would agree with that, in recent years councils have toughen their attitudes and you can be sure they will prosecute at some point. If you are abroad they have to dispatch an official to serve you the courts paper in person, which almost never happens.
> [...]
>
> Would agree with that, in recent years councils have toughen their attitudes and you can be sure they will prosecute at some point. If you are abroad they have to dispatch an official to serve you the courts paper in person, which almost never happens.
No they don't. They can get a CCJ without you being there.
> One thing is sure your credit score in the UK will be wiped out whatever happens, but as long as you don't live there you'll be fine.
Because they can issue a CCJ without you being there.
In reply to henwardian:
Just change your name when you come back.
Got a friend who ran up 10s of thousands Pounds of debt, buggered off to the Philippines, then started again when he came back.
Just change your name when you come back.
Got a friend who ran up 10s of thousands Pounds of debt, buggered off to the Philippines, then started again when he came back.
In reply to Lusk: "Start again" as in "won't be able to get credit, insure a car or rent a flat" then yes, perfect.
In reply to ByEek:
Not so sure, I know someone who claimed a council for damage to their car, and just at the very last minute before it was to go to court, they settled. So some councils are not prepared to squander money on legal cost , but they are into brinkmanship.
> (In reply to stp) You are forgetting step 8.
>
> 8. They take you to court.
>
> Never underestimate how much council tax payers money a council is prepared to spend in order to get money from those who can least afford to pay it.
>
> 8. They take you to court.
>
> Never underestimate how much council tax payers money a council is prepared to spend in order to get money from those who can least afford to pay it.
Not so sure, I know someone who claimed a council for damage to their car, and just at the very last minute before it was to go to court, they settled. So some councils are not prepared to squander money on legal cost , but they are into brinkmanship.
In reply to Jim C: I do voluntary work in a Citizen's Advice Bureau, and we see a fair number of folk with CCJs/Bailiffs chasing them because the local borough council is after rent and/or council tax arrears, and in a number of cases it is for less than £1,000.
True, they usually try to resolve it before resorting to this and are generally quite flexible and fair, but push them too far and they are likely to take action through the courts. My advice to the OP would be to try to sort it before they get to the court stage. Often they will agree to small payments over a long period.
The following link may have some useful advice:
http://tinyurl.com/pgxokon
True, they usually try to resolve it before resorting to this and are generally quite flexible and fair, but push them too far and they are likely to take action through the courts. My advice to the OP would be to try to sort it before they get to the court stage. Often they will agree to small payments over a long period.
The following link may have some useful advice:
http://tinyurl.com/pgxokon
In reply to henwardian:
hopefully you don't live in Liverpool, they may send this guy around !!
youtube.com/watch?v=83dB8uwQFQM&
hopefully you don't live in Liverpool, they may send this guy around !!
youtube.com/watch?v=83dB8uwQFQM&
In reply to andy:
Yes they can, but then to be executed they have to give it to you in person, and that's where they are stuck if you are abroad. Had the case with a friend who left is job without notice to work in France. His employer sued him and won and now he has to pay 5000£ in damage to his employer, however for him to start paying the order has to be served by an official in person to him, where he lives. The court has to dispatch an official from the UK to France which is basically such a lengthy procedure that his previous employer eventually gave up
> (In reply to RomTheBear)
> [...]
>
>
> No they don't. They can get a CCJ without you being there.
>
> [...]
>
>
> No they don't. They can get a CCJ without you being there.
>
Yes they can, but then to be executed they have to give it to you in person, and that's where they are stuck if you are abroad. Had the case with a friend who left is job without notice to work in France. His employer sued him and won and now he has to pay 5000£ in damage to his employer, however for him to start paying the order has to be served by an official in person to him, where he lives. The court has to dispatch an official from the UK to France which is basically such a lengthy procedure that his previous employer eventually gave up
In reply to RomTheBear:
If you default on the CCJ (which does not have to be served in person) then the creditor can ask the courts to use bailiffs to collect the debt. They do have to visit you in person, so being abroad may make this difficult. However the CCJ will still be recorded on your credit file for 6 years as has been mentioned above. So being abroad may help as long as you don't mind your credit rating being stuffed, and are happy to duck and dive a bit when you return to the UK.
> (In reply to andy)
> [...]
>
> Yes they can, but then to be executed they have to give it to you in person, and that's where they are stuck if you are abroad. Had the case with a friend who left is job without notice to work in France. His employer sued him and won and now he has to pay 5000£ in damage to his employer, however for him to start paying the order has to be served by an official in person to him, where he lives. The court has to dispatch an official from the UK to France which is basically such a lengthy procedure that his previous employer eventually gave up
> [...]
>
> Yes they can, but then to be executed they have to give it to you in person, and that's where they are stuck if you are abroad. Had the case with a friend who left is job without notice to work in France. His employer sued him and won and now he has to pay 5000£ in damage to his employer, however for him to start paying the order has to be served by an official in person to him, where he lives. The court has to dispatch an official from the UK to France which is basically such a lengthy procedure that his previous employer eventually gave up
If you default on the CCJ (which does not have to be served in person) then the creditor can ask the courts to use bailiffs to collect the debt. They do have to visit you in person, so being abroad may make this difficult. However the CCJ will still be recorded on your credit file for 6 years as has been mentioned above. So being abroad may help as long as you don't mind your credit rating being stuffed, and are happy to duck and dive a bit when you return to the UK.
In reply to henwardian: Thanks for all the advice guys. Sounds like going the sort of official way of dealing with things is probably the best idea rather than ignoring it. Credit rating does not worry me unduely as I never really borrow money for anything but I do plan to be back in the UK and I don't really want to be trying to duck and dive to dodge official people.
In reply to henwardian:
It used to be the case, that if you have offered to make any payment towards the debt then it would never go to court as the judge would throw the case out. i.e no ccj ballifs etc
Not sure if that still works though.
It used to be the case, that if you have offered to make any payment towards the debt then it would never go to court as the judge would throw the case out. i.e no ccj ballifs etc
Not sure if that still works though.
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