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Having never been to Harrison's Rocks What is all the fuss about a Toilet block and its importance?
Having frequented popular crags Such as Almscliff, Caley,Crookrise,Malham,Kilnsey,Widdop,Ilkley,Stanage,Burbage and the rest of the north of England for a few years now I have never really chosen a venue on its toilet facilities. Just the quality of the climbing.
Is it really that important to the venue?
Having frequented popular crags Such as Almscliff, Caley,Crookrise,Malham,Kilnsey,Widdop,Ilkley,Stanage,Burbage and the rest of the north of England for a few years now I have never really chosen a venue on its toilet facilities. Just the quality of the climbing.
Is it really that important to the venue?
In reply to Stash: All the London yuppies demand one at their crags.
In reply to Stash: Yes, the toilet block is important at Harrisons, you need to visit it to see why, anyway Stanage does have a toilet block near the plantation car park.
In reply to Al Evans:
Your right it does. It makes it a far superior crag obviously.
I may visit HR one day, I'd be interested to see as to why it is so important.
Your right it does. It makes it a far superior crag obviously.
I may visit HR one day, I'd be interested to see as to why it is so important.
In reply to Stash:
I don't think that was the point at all; have you read the thread or is this somthing clever you have just thought up?
Locals have got togather and are ready to do the repair work themselves but are being blocked (if you excuse the pun) by Sport England. Having a toilet block at a popular visitor spot is surely a benefit to climbers and locals in keeping the area clean, especially a woodland venue. These organisations like Sport England claim to be working on behalf of the public, so when they clearly don't (like here) they need to be challenged.
"This online petition is directed towards SPORT ENGLAND Uk who under the terms of a lease with the Forestry Commission have a duty to operate and maintain Harrision's Rock's Car Park, Jullie Tullis camp site and Toilet block in the interest of Rock Climbers, walkers and the residents of the village of Groombridge.
The toilet block has remained closed for over six months now with Sport England holding funding and responsibility to complete repairs having done nothing to bring the facilities back into use, their only actions appearing to be with the lessor to demolish the block, despite their moral obligation to complete repairs and maintain usage."
I don't think that was the point at all; have you read the thread or is this somthing clever you have just thought up?
Locals have got togather and are ready to do the repair work themselves but are being blocked (if you excuse the pun) by Sport England. Having a toilet block at a popular visitor spot is surely a benefit to climbers and locals in keeping the area clean, especially a woodland venue. These organisations like Sport England claim to be working on behalf of the public, so when they clearly don't (like here) they need to be challenged.
"This online petition is directed towards SPORT ENGLAND Uk who under the terms of a lease with the Forestry Commission have a duty to operate and maintain Harrision's Rock's Car Park, Jullie Tullis camp site and Toilet block in the interest of Rock Climbers, walkers and the residents of the village of Groombridge.
The toilet block has remained closed for over six months now with Sport England holding funding and responsibility to complete repairs having done nothing to bring the facilities back into use, their only actions appearing to be with the lessor to demolish the block, despite their moral obligation to complete repairs and maintain usage."
In reply to Offwidth:
I think its really good tha a local group have got together to undertake work on an existing building that has fallen into disrepair. Dont the Forestry commission plan to demolish the building though once the lease is up though??
You can surely see why Sport England have been reluctant to invest in something that will be demolished.
I think its really good tha a local group have got together to undertake work on an existing building that has fallen into disrepair. Dont the Forestry commission plan to demolish the building though once the lease is up though??
You can surely see why Sport England have been reluctant to invest in something that will be demolished.
In reply to Removed User:
and its somewhere for the doggers to wait in the rain
> (In reply to Stash) All the London yuppies demand one at their crags.
and its somewhere for the doggers to wait in the rain
In reply to Stash: Get yourself enviromentally sound and sign the petition,
In reply to Stash:
If that is your real question why didn't you ask that, I'm sure one of the local campaigners will be along soon to answer it. The question you did ask seemed dumb to me. The importance of the toilet is obvious (it's well used and its presence keeps the woodland area cleaner) and most climbers obviously dont choose venues because of a toilet (it might influence choice for a minority of folk with problems though).
If that is your real question why didn't you ask that, I'm sure one of the local campaigners will be along soon to answer it. The question you did ask seemed dumb to me. The importance of the toilet is obvious (it's well used and its presence keeps the woodland area cleaner) and most climbers obviously dont choose venues because of a toilet (it might influence choice for a minority of folk with problems though).
In reply to Offwidth:
I can manage a whole day winter climbing/cragging without the need to Shit in the local area simply because i plan my day accordingly. I wish more people would be more responsible.
I can manage a whole day winter climbing/cragging without the need to Shit in the local area simply because i plan my day accordingly. I wish more people would be more responsible.
In reply to Al Evans:
a toilet block doesnt make you environmentally sound, taking responsibility for your own toilet behaviour does.
a toilet block doesnt make you environmentally sound, taking responsibility for your own toilet behaviour does.
In reply to Stash: Good for you, unfortunatley some people are not so lucky as they have health problems. Also the main benefit of the toilet is to stop tourists shitting in the woods.
So Apart from the people with health problems and the tourists who go there to shit in the woods the climbers can cope without a toilet block? Sorted!
In reply to Stash:
A key point is that the campsite is linked to the toilet block. So no toilet means no camping.
A key point is that the campsite is linked to the toilet block. So no toilet means no camping.
In reply to Stash:
So what? The climbers using the venue and the locals want the woods to remain clean (the place gets loads of visitors) so it's nothing to do with how long you or I have managed to go without a dump.
So what? The climbers using the venue and the locals want the woods to remain clean (the place gets loads of visitors) so it's nothing to do with how long you or I have managed to go without a dump.
In reply to Stash:
Harrisons Rocks is a much smaller venue than Stanage, but attracts many people there on a sunny weekend; for some it is their first outdoor climbing experience in an area dominated by climbing walls and no crags.
Whilst it might not have the same glamour of a grit outcrop with many hundred star routes, there is something quite pleasant about climbing there at the weekend then meeting up with other climbers around the campfire and having a jolly evening. This has of course been going on for donkey's years, long before I was born. Usually there are 10-15 people there who stay over in the basic campsite in the woods which only costed a couple of pounds.
Whilst I agree that most adults seem to be well toilet trained, it is an undeniable fact that some clearly are not. I have carried out volunteer work there a few times and some people obviously have trouble taking their rubbish away and dealing with calls of nature.
The campsite needs a toilet as the nearest alternative is at the pub 20 minutes away which people aren't going to leave the campsite for in the middle of the night. It is unfortunate but understandable that this facility is currently closed.
The woods are starting to become like Font, and I don't think it's just the bears to blame for the dirty protests and paper decorations being left behind every other tree.
I for one have signed the petition, and will be helping out with the renovation of the facility to preserve one of the South East's few climbing venues.
Harrisons Rocks is a much smaller venue than Stanage, but attracts many people there on a sunny weekend; for some it is their first outdoor climbing experience in an area dominated by climbing walls and no crags.
Whilst it might not have the same glamour of a grit outcrop with many hundred star routes, there is something quite pleasant about climbing there at the weekend then meeting up with other climbers around the campfire and having a jolly evening. This has of course been going on for donkey's years, long before I was born. Usually there are 10-15 people there who stay over in the basic campsite in the woods which only costed a couple of pounds.
Whilst I agree that most adults seem to be well toilet trained, it is an undeniable fact that some clearly are not. I have carried out volunteer work there a few times and some people obviously have trouble taking their rubbish away and dealing with calls of nature.
The campsite needs a toilet as the nearest alternative is at the pub 20 minutes away which people aren't going to leave the campsite for in the middle of the night. It is unfortunate but understandable that this facility is currently closed.
The woods are starting to become like Font, and I don't think it's just the bears to blame for the dirty protests and paper decorations being left behind every other tree.
I for one have signed the petition, and will be helping out with the renovation of the facility to preserve one of the South East's few climbing venues.
To be honest we all know that the real problem when it comes to shitting in the woods or at crags isnt from tourists, it isnt from dog walkers, it isnt from the people unfortunate enough to suffer with health problems it is from a minority within the climbing community who ruin it for everyone else by their disgusting behaviour and blame it on the lack of toilet facilities. It only ever seems to be a problem at climbing venues...........
In reply to richard_hopkins: Thank you Richard, for that well thought out and helpful reply.
You beat me to it.
Though mine was going to be " If you've never been there and it doesn't affect you, why don't you f*ck off you annoying tw*t"
You beat me to it.
Though mine was going to be " If you've never been there and it doesn't affect you, why don't you f*ck off you annoying tw*t"
In reply to Stash:
Well, of course it can. But here you are championing a massively retrogressive step. That campsite was extremely useful for Londoners. The toilets and washing facilities of course were essential for the campsite.
> (In reply to Sandstone Stickman)
>
>
> Im sure HR can survive without a campsite?
>
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> Im sure HR can survive without a campsite?
Well, of course it can. But here you are championing a massively retrogressive step. That campsite was extremely useful for Londoners. The toilets and washing facilities of course were essential for the campsite.
In reply to richard_hopkins:
You put it really well Richard.
My general sympathies to all those trying to help at HR and keep what sounds like a great venue.
It is obvious that it is about the venues campsite as much as it is the toilets.
My anger isnt directed at you, it is directed at the blind belief in that keeping a toilet block at a campsite will stop the climbers from shitting in the woods. It may reduce it a bit but those climbers who cant walk 20 mins to a pub for a shit will not walk 10 mins to the toilet block for a shit. Its like the people who dont use the toilet block at Stanage plantation car park and shit in the boulders. They are climbers!! and it has to stop.
You put it really well Richard.
My general sympathies to all those trying to help at HR and keep what sounds like a great venue.
It is obvious that it is about the venues campsite as much as it is the toilets.
My anger isnt directed at you, it is directed at the blind belief in that keeping a toilet block at a campsite will stop the climbers from shitting in the woods. It may reduce it a bit but those climbers who cant walk 20 mins to a pub for a shit will not walk 10 mins to the toilet block for a shit. Its like the people who dont use the toilet block at Stanage plantation car park and shit in the boulders. They are climbers!! and it has to stop.
In reply to Stash:
Shit at Stanage boulders is pretty rare and climbers doing it are brave as they wouldn't be treated kindly if cauaght when there is a toilet block a few minutes walk away. The path through the plantation to the boulders has a lot of tourists (who may not be aware of the nearby facility) so it's also not necesarily climbers. Most of us would agree climbers doing this are pretty scummy unless genuinely caught short with great urgency (it happens: in which case they should dig a hole and bury it or stick it in a bag and pack it out with any tissues).
Anyhow climbers are not the only people who use Harrisons and a good few that are are kids and don't have the Scout dump delay badge you seem to posess.
Your posts come over as a pretty shabby as they keep shifting target and the original post undermines good voluntary work from local climbers and residents who are attempting to solve a very real problem.
Shit at Stanage boulders is pretty rare and climbers doing it are brave as they wouldn't be treated kindly if cauaght when there is a toilet block a few minutes walk away. The path through the plantation to the boulders has a lot of tourists (who may not be aware of the nearby facility) so it's also not necesarily climbers. Most of us would agree climbers doing this are pretty scummy unless genuinely caught short with great urgency (it happens: in which case they should dig a hole and bury it or stick it in a bag and pack it out with any tissues).
Anyhow climbers are not the only people who use Harrisons and a good few that are are kids and don't have the Scout dump delay badge you seem to posess.
Your posts come over as a pretty shabby as they keep shifting target and the original post undermines good voluntary work from local climbers and residents who are attempting to solve a very real problem.
In reply to Stash: How times change, when the toilets were first planned I remember the Tullis family and local climbers, of which I was one, campaigning against the block, but times and expectations change! Yes I have signed by the way.
In reply to Removed User: Terry Tullis's and other's main objection was to the original proposal to have the car park and toilet block immediately above the Rocks, which really would have been bad, especially if, as happened some years ago at the present site, when the soak-aways broke down and had to be replaced.
The problem is that having been built the toilet block, demolishing it creates a much greater problem than had it never been built. Personally. I would be very sad to see the loss of the Julie Tullis Memorial campsite, whose existence depends on the toilet block. The campsite was eatablished by the Sandstone Climbing Club, and profits from it are used to make grants to British women and disabled climbers - see www.thebmc.co.uk/the-julie-tullis-memorial-award.
While not trying to defend Sport England's current position, to their credit it has put many thousands of pounds into the Rocks over the the last 40 years, including purchasing the land in the North Boulder area (which was left out of the original purchase of the Rocks by a small group of climbers, which may or may not have included Mick Jagger's dad) in 1958, and paying for the extensive ground erosion work between 1998 and 2002 - not to mention rebuilding the above-mentioned soak-aways (which they had to pay for under the terms of the lease).
The problem is that having been built the toilet block, demolishing it creates a much greater problem than had it never been built. Personally. I would be very sad to see the loss of the Julie Tullis Memorial campsite, whose existence depends on the toilet block. The campsite was eatablished by the Sandstone Climbing Club, and profits from it are used to make grants to British women and disabled climbers - see www.thebmc.co.uk/the-julie-tullis-memorial-award.
While not trying to defend Sport England's current position, to their credit it has put many thousands of pounds into the Rocks over the the last 40 years, including purchasing the land in the North Boulder area (which was left out of the original purchase of the Rocks by a small group of climbers, which may or may not have included Mick Jagger's dad) in 1958, and paying for the extensive ground erosion work between 1998 and 2002 - not to mention rebuilding the above-mentioned soak-aways (which they had to pay for under the terms of the lease).
In reply to Stash: I havent been to Harrisons for a few years now, but I still have very fond memories of climbing and camping there, and sitting around the campfire listening to the guitar players. It would be a great loss to the southern based climbers if this facility was lost.
In reply to Stash:
Toilets don't matter is a bit of a male perspective. Males aren't bothered about peeing behind a tree, it's a bit less convenient for women.
Toilets don't matter is a bit of a male perspective. Males aren't bothered about peeing behind a tree, it's a bit less convenient for women.
In reply to Stash:
It has only become a problem since the toilets were closed. And as for your rather arrogant dismissal of people with health problems, think yourself lucky that you have such wonderful bowel and bladder control. I sincerely hope you never contract prostate cancer or diverticulitis, or some other "inconvenient" disease.
>
>
> To be honest we all know that the real problem when it comes to shitting in the woods or at crags isnt from tourists, it isnt from dog walkers, it isnt from the people unfortunate enough to suffer with health problems it is from a minority within the climbing community who ruin it for everyone else by their disgusting behaviour and blame it on the lack of toilet facilities. It only ever seems to be a problem at climbing venues...........
>
> To be honest we all know that the real problem when it comes to shitting in the woods or at crags isnt from tourists, it isnt from dog walkers, it isnt from the people unfortunate enough to suffer with health problems it is from a minority within the climbing community who ruin it for everyone else by their disgusting behaviour and blame it on the lack of toilet facilities. It only ever seems to be a problem at climbing venues...........
It has only become a problem since the toilets were closed. And as for your rather arrogant dismissal of people with health problems, think yourself lucky that you have such wonderful bowel and bladder control. I sincerely hope you never contract prostate cancer or diverticulitis, or some other "inconvenient" disease.
In reply to Stash:
Stash
A few pointers. Currently nearly 700 people who do know Harrison's have a very different viewpoint to yours- come and climb here and you'll understand.sign the petition.
There is an amenity at Harrison's because climbers 40 years ago saw a need for it and got their act together. The reasons for it haven't changed- sign the petition
The fact that we have a facility and arms cliff doesn't , shouldn't mean that other climbers say its a bad idea- sign the petition.
Sport England put next to nothing into the sport, why should they pay even less given the Olympic legacy ?? Sign the friggin petition please
http://www.petitions24.com/reopen_harrisons_rocks_toilet_block
Stash
A few pointers. Currently nearly 700 people who do know Harrison's have a very different viewpoint to yours- come and climb here and you'll understand.sign the petition.
There is an amenity at Harrison's because climbers 40 years ago saw a need for it and got their act together. The reasons for it haven't changed- sign the petition
The fact that we have a facility and arms cliff doesn't , shouldn't mean that other climbers say its a bad idea- sign the petition.
Sport England put next to nothing into the sport, why should they pay even less given the Olympic legacy ?? Sign the friggin petition please
http://www.petitions24.com/reopen_harrisons_rocks_toilet_block
In reply to Stash: I didn't appreciate putting my foot in shit 40 years ago and I don't now.JUST SIGN!
In reply to Stash: This is a sandstone edge on one side of a river valley, extending for 650 yards and offering a very wide variety of climbing problems. Chimneys, face climbs, cracks and overhangs of all grades. The very hard routes offer some extremely difficult technical climbing, and it is possible to practice climbing to a very high standard safely.
Many climbers visit these rocks from all over the world. Harrison’s must be the smallest climbing ground with the highest usage anywhere.
I mentioned earlier that Dennis Kemp and some friends had bought Harrison’s in the 1950’s and placed then into trust. During the seventies thousands of people a year were visiting them and it became necessary to build a car park as the road verges were being destroyed by hundreds of cars. The Sports Council kindly stepped in with a grant and organised the building of a large car park and handsome sandstone-faced toilet block.
Clouds From Both Sides - - by - - Julie Tullis. RIP
Many climbers visit these rocks from all over the world. Harrison’s must be the smallest climbing ground with the highest usage anywhere.
I mentioned earlier that Dennis Kemp and some friends had bought Harrison’s in the 1950’s and placed then into trust. During the seventies thousands of people a year were visiting them and it became necessary to build a car park as the road verges were being destroyed by hundreds of cars. The Sports Council kindly stepped in with a grant and organised the building of a large car park and handsome sandstone-faced toilet block.
Clouds From Both Sides - - by - - Julie Tullis. RIP
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