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What's the norm for home entertainment and data wiring these days on a decent new-build?
TV antenna in each bedroom, living room and kitchen or is that overkill? Are land-line phones a thing of the past, should I just move the port to where the router will go? Is ethernet/data wiring worth having from the router to desks or entertainment outlets or are these smart-TV's/gadget generally all WiFi enabled.
Anything else while I'm chopping into walls?
Not having a TV or fancy gadgets much of this stuff is only really 'needed' in the interests of doing a thorough job.
jk
TV antenna in each bedroom, living room and kitchen or is that overkill? Are land-line phones a thing of the past, should I just move the port to where the router will go? Is ethernet/data wiring worth having from the router to desks or entertainment outlets or are these smart-TV's/gadget generally all WiFi enabled.
Anything else while I'm chopping into walls?
Not having a TV or fancy gadgets much of this stuff is only really 'needed' in the interests of doing a thorough job.
jk
In reply to jkarran: Perhaps getting a bit ahead of things but have your seen this?
http://www.economist.com/news/international/21588104-humble-usb-cable-part-...
http://www.economist.com/news/international/21588104-humble-usb-cable-part-...
In reply to jkarran:
If I was doing this then I think I would put the master socket beside a good router position and fit some high quality network cabling regardless of the wifi. Wired networking is good. Then there are any number of other things you can send down 4 x twisted pair if the need arises.
If I was doing this then I think I would put the master socket beside a good router position and fit some high quality network cabling regardless of the wifi. Wired networking is good. Then there are any number of other things you can send down 4 x twisted pair if the need arises.
In reply to MG:
Interesting.
I'm not sure how they've concluded this given the additional copper mass and/or I^2R losses incurred in transmitting power at just 5 Volts! I could see a low voltage standard maybe catching on as connected equipment consumption drops but surely not down at 5V.
The 'smart grid' stuff is, as ever a great idea that requires planning and managing now while it's in its infancy.
jk
Interesting.
> Low-voltage DC power is cheap, safe and green
I'm not sure how they've concluded this given the additional copper mass and/or I^2R losses incurred in transmitting power at just 5 Volts! I could see a low voltage standard maybe catching on as connected equipment consumption drops but surely not down at 5V.
The 'smart grid' stuff is, as ever a great idea that requires planning and managing now while it's in its infancy.
jk
In reply to jkarran:
My goodness. I would have thought that was like sooooooo 1990's. Surely gigabit ethernet is more desirable?
> TV antenna in each bedroom
My goodness. I would have thought that was like sooooooo 1990's. Surely gigabit ethernet is more desirable?
I would put the master socket on an external wall to allow for future BT upgrades.
Then run a good quality extension to where the router would be best located and a further extension for an obvious phone location.
You probably want the router near the main TV for internet streaming. Most houses probably have cordless phones, but you still need one plugged in, so probably in the hallway.
No point putting in ethernet as you wouldn't know the best arrangement for the final user. Personally I'd want hard wire from my lounge to my study but all other rooms can be wifi.
You might want use a triple RCD CU. That way the media system, the lights and everything else are on separate circuits. You don't want the lights and TV going out just because someone's had a shock in the electric shower.
Then run a good quality extension to where the router would be best located and a further extension for an obvious phone location.
You probably want the router near the main TV for internet streaming. Most houses probably have cordless phones, but you still need one plugged in, so probably in the hallway.
No point putting in ethernet as you wouldn't know the best arrangement for the final user. Personally I'd want hard wire from my lounge to my study but all other rooms can be wifi.
You might want use a triple RCD CU. That way the media system, the lights and everything else are on separate circuits. You don't want the lights and TV going out just because someone's had a shock in the electric shower.
In reply to ByEek:
Well that's just the thing, I don't know! I have no idea what connections a modern entertainment center needs. I have a laptop with WiFi, that's the only electronic entertainment/data connection I'm familiar with.
jk
> My goodness. I would have thought that was like sooooooo 1990's. Surely gigabit ethernet is more desirable?
Well that's just the thing, I don't know! I have no idea what connections a modern entertainment center needs. I have a laptop with WiFi, that's the only electronic entertainment/data connection I'm familiar with.
jk
In reply to jkarran:
If you can get gigabit ethernet, then most things still have ports (eg PS3/Xbox etc) and they're generally much faster cabled up. I had my house done recently and we've got ethernet in all the rooms apart from the kitchen.
If you know where the TV will sit, get at least two network points there (you can fit up to 4 in a faceplate) and 3 double sockets (but we do have a lot of stuff under our TV (TV, PS3, Wii, PC, Switch, Lamp).
For more normal rooms, get one on each wall. So 4 double sockets per room. As they're running the cable you might as well have network points next to the double sockets. Again, if I were doing it again, I'd have a network point next to each socket.
If you can get gigabit ethernet, then most things still have ports (eg PS3/Xbox etc) and they're generally much faster cabled up. I had my house done recently and we've got ethernet in all the rooms apart from the kitchen.
If you know where the TV will sit, get at least two network points there (you can fit up to 4 in a faceplate) and 3 double sockets (but we do have a lot of stuff under our TV (TV, PS3, Wii, PC, Switch, Lamp).
For more normal rooms, get one on each wall. So 4 double sockets per room. As they're running the cable you might as well have network points next to the double sockets. Again, if I were doing it again, I'd have a network point next to each socket.
In reply to jkarran: Its low power stuff so the big losses are in the transformer, voltage drops across diodes stuff like that.
Wire up for gigabit ethernet, saves you less pain later when all you need to do is run a cable across a room instead of though a few walls.
Wire up for gigabit ethernet, saves you less pain later when all you need to do is run a cable across a room instead of though a few walls.
In reply to jkarran:
Aside from all the data stuff, think about being able to switch stuff off easily so that appliances don't sit on standby overnight. When I rewired my last house, we had some sockets in each room on the ring main and a few sockets fed on a radial circuit from a switched fused spur by the door to each room. That way, stuff that didn't need to be left on overnight like the DVD player, TV etc could all be completely powered down with one switch on the way out of the room when I was going to bed. Stuff that needed to be left on to charge or for overnight data updates could be left plugged in to the normal ring main sockets.
Aside from all the data stuff, think about being able to switch stuff off easily so that appliances don't sit on standby overnight. When I rewired my last house, we had some sockets in each room on the ring main and a few sockets fed on a radial circuit from a switched fused spur by the door to each room. That way, stuff that didn't need to be left on overnight like the DVD player, TV etc could all be completely powered down with one switch on the way out of the room when I was going to bed. Stuff that needed to be left on to charge or for overnight data updates could be left plugged in to the normal ring main sockets.
In reply to jkarran:
Surely its just lots of plugs that you really need?
Most modern toys seem to need charging but they don't need network because its wifi. I like the idea of hard wired network though. And if it were my place I'd probably try and hard wire some decent speaker cables if I knew how the living room would be. If you aren't planning on selling then I reckon you need to make it right for you*, and a buyer won't spend ages looking at plugs etc if they think the house it right anyway.
*i.e 3 phase (you are going to need that sooner or later right?), where are your dust extract ducts going to go?
Surely its just lots of plugs that you really need?
Most modern toys seem to need charging but they don't need network because its wifi. I like the idea of hard wired network though. And if it were my place I'd probably try and hard wire some decent speaker cables if I knew how the living room would be. If you aren't planning on selling then I reckon you need to make it right for you*, and a buyer won't spend ages looking at plugs etc if they think the house it right anyway.
*i.e 3 phase (you are going to need that sooner or later right?), where are your dust extract ducts going to go?
In reply to petellis:
And you might want to put a bigger lathe in your dining room. ;0)
> (In reply to jkarran)
> *i.e 3 phase (you are going to need that sooner or later right?), where are your dust extract ducts going to go?
And you might want to put a bigger lathe in your dining room. ;0)
In reply to petellis:
No three phase but the garage will be getting a substantial supply for sure.
Installed speakers might just save my ears from the horribly distorted too-loud radios I'm forever turning down
You're right, nobody will care too much exactly what's there if we sell it but I'd like to future proof it a little against maybe one day wanting to get a TV or a games console or whatever (seems unlikely). Also need to think ahead to changes I want to make but can't afford yet, size/fit circuits with them in mind.
jk
No three phase but the garage will be getting a substantial supply for sure.
Installed speakers might just save my ears from the horribly distorted too-loud radios I'm forever turning down
You're right, nobody will care too much exactly what's there if we sell it but I'd like to future proof it a little against maybe one day wanting to get a TV or a games console or whatever (seems unlikely). Also need to think ahead to changes I want to make but can't afford yet, size/fit circuits with them in mind.
jk
In reply to teflonpete:
What dining room, that's a front workshop
The easily accessible switched spur for TV etc sounds like a good idea.
jk
> And you might want to put a bigger lathe in your dining room. ;0)
What dining room, that's a front workshop
The easily accessible switched spur for TV etc sounds like a good idea.
jk
In reply to jkarran: Work out how many sockets you need then double or triple it.
I prefer wired networks so my house is flood wired with CAT5, the WiFi is on a DMZ'd
Given that most folk are on Satelite or Cable? I'd wire an AV feed to most rooms from the most likely position for the set top box for multiroom.
You can get good WiFi speakers but they still need power so add more sockets.
Think about home automation? there are quite a lot of affordable solutions now days.
Steve D
I prefer wired networks so my house is flood wired with CAT5, the WiFi is on a DMZ'd
Given that most folk are on Satelite or Cable? I'd wire an AV feed to most rooms from the most likely position for the set top box for multiroom.
You can get good WiFi speakers but they still need power so add more sockets.
Think about home automation? there are quite a lot of affordable solutions now days.
Steve D
In reply to jkarran:
I'm not sure that I would bother with cabling/messy wall ports at all, as the bandwidth limit is the pipe into the house and what you can afford to pay for it. The future of wifi in the home is multichannel Gb+ anyway.
I'm not sure that I would bother with cabling/messy wall ports at all, as the bandwidth limit is the pipe into the house and what you can afford to pay for it. The future of wifi in the home is multichannel Gb+ anyway.
In reply to SteveD:
Seems reasonable, they're cheap and it's basically just work to add them.
Some words there I'm not familiar with but I get the gist of it!
Genuine question... What would I automate? Worth a look I guess as I'll need to address heating controls/zones at the same time.
Cheers,
jk
> Work out how many sockets you need then double or triple it.
Seems reasonable, they're cheap and it's basically just work to add them.
> Given that most folk are on Satelite or Cable? I'd wire an AV feed to most rooms from the most likely position for the set top box for multiroom.
Some words there I'm not familiar with but I get the gist of it!
> Think about home automation? there are quite a lot of affordable solutions now days.
Genuine question... What would I automate? Worth a look I guess as I'll need to address heating controls/zones at the same time.
Cheers,
jk
In reply to jkarran: Hi
I floodwired with double screened cat 6 and speaker cables. The cat 6 takes care of the multi channel / multi room audio visual system and routes back to centrally located servers and sources. It also handles, network distribution (wifi struggles with the demand of several people playing PC games at the same time), security cameras, access control and phones (although I prefer and use rf phones instead)
Separately I floodwired with cat 5 and radial mains supplies back to a central lighting / power system meaning that I could install programmable mood lighting and scene setting. This also allows individual control of light fittings and socket outlets so that you can introduce a home control system, particularly if you link it with your thermostats, boiler and light sensitive switches / PIRs
In my view the only time to do this is when the plaster is off the walls, fitting the cable is cheap, it's what goes on the ends that costs and that can be added later.
You can get various bits and bobs that use wifi but if you want a system that fully hangs together it's still better and cheaper to go with cable (as well as having better bandwidth). You can do quite a bit with an ipad and Apple TV / airport express but the only place I use wifi is to connect my controllers to the system.
I hope this helps.
I floodwired with double screened cat 6 and speaker cables. The cat 6 takes care of the multi channel / multi room audio visual system and routes back to centrally located servers and sources. It also handles, network distribution (wifi struggles with the demand of several people playing PC games at the same time), security cameras, access control and phones (although I prefer and use rf phones instead)
Separately I floodwired with cat 5 and radial mains supplies back to a central lighting / power system meaning that I could install programmable mood lighting and scene setting. This also allows individual control of light fittings and socket outlets so that you can introduce a home control system, particularly if you link it with your thermostats, boiler and light sensitive switches / PIRs
In my view the only time to do this is when the plaster is off the walls, fitting the cable is cheap, it's what goes on the ends that costs and that can be added later.
You can get various bits and bobs that use wifi but if you want a system that fully hangs together it's still better and cheaper to go with cable (as well as having better bandwidth). You can do quite a bit with an ipad and Apple TV / airport express but the only place I use wifi is to connect my controllers to the system.
I hope this helps.
In reply to jkarran: Forgot to add if you are looking for ideas ask you local Cedia registered provider to come round and talk to you about what they can offer, and then nick any ideas that seem to fit your needs.
In reply to David Bennett:
Wow! That's possibly a bit more sophisticated than I had in mind but I take the point that the cable is the cheap bit so long as it's in place. Probably worth me having a look at available products to see what cabling they require.
jk
Wow! That's possibly a bit more sophisticated than I had in mind but I take the point that the cable is the cheap bit so long as it's in place. Probably worth me having a look at available products to see what cabling they require.
jk
In reply to jkarran:
As David Bennett suggested:
http://www.cedia.co.uk/cda_download.php?r=PRSPU4274891
As David Bennett suggested:
http://www.cedia.co.uk/cda_download.php?r=PRSPU4274891
In reply to jkarran:
If you have a decent hi-fi system it's worth considering a dedicated mains supply. Some people run it off a separate consumer unit, use high quality cabling, a balanced supply etc. Any separation from the ring main is an improvement in removing noise from the system and improving the sound quality.
If you have a decent hi-fi system it's worth considering a dedicated mains supply. Some people run it off a separate consumer unit, use high quality cabling, a balanced supply etc. Any separation from the ring main is an improvement in removing noise from the system and improving the sound quality.
In reply to jkarran: Don't know what's best but I'll give you my take. The only thing I use is a TV antenna in the lounge, 4G for internet. Just going to have a antenna in the living room, bit of a pain to run the cabling in I guess but I may well sell the house to someone like me so don't see the point in spending the money. Same with the rest, two double sockets in each bedroom and a centre light on a three pound pendant. Figured it's better to use extension cables and lamps than have clutter everywhere.
In reply to jkarran:
What about pieces of string and blanking plates. Then if you ever need anything you can just pull it through as and when...
> Not having a TV or fancy gadgets much of this stuff is only really 'needed' in the interests of doing a thorough job.
What about pieces of string and blanking plates. Then if you ever need anything you can just pull it through as and when...
In reply to Unknown Climber:
I don't but if I did my inner engineer would be questioning the value in adding a few meters of extra circuit to the hundreds of meters of common circuit back to the local transformer. No offence intended if it's something you're into but hardcore HiFi fans often leave me puzzled.
jk
> If you have a decent hi-fi system it's worth considering a dedicated mains supply. Some people run it off a separate consumer unit, use high quality cabling, a balanced supply etc. Any separation from the ring main is an improvement in removing noise from the system and improving the sound quality.
I don't but if I did my inner engineer would be questioning the value in adding a few meters of extra circuit to the hundreds of meters of common circuit back to the local transformer. No offence intended if it's something you're into but hardcore HiFi fans often leave me puzzled.
jk
In reply to wintertree:
Not a bad idea. I'll certainly be giving some thought to routing cables and pipes so they're relatively accessible while I have the chance, string may be pretty useful for that in places.
For some of the other cables, coax down from antennas for example (they're already there, no point removing them) I may as well bite the bullet for £30 and just put it in. Who knows, I may crack and buy a telly one day.
jk
Not a bad idea. I'll certainly be giving some thought to routing cables and pipes so they're relatively accessible while I have the chance, string may be pretty useful for that in places.
For some of the other cables, coax down from antennas for example (they're already there, no point removing them) I may as well bite the bullet for £30 and just put it in. Who knows, I may crack and buy a telly one day.
jk
In reply to jkarran:
The trouble with doing this is that it is impossible. You're talking about tv antennae when many people no longer use them, getting their signals via cable, or watching catch-up tv on laptops over a wireless connection. I think like someone else said, the one thing you can make sure you have is plenty of sockets, and I would just make the rest suit you. Things will change quicker than we can imagine, in directions we just can't imagine.
> You're right, nobody will care too much exactly what's there if we sell it but I'd like to future proof it a little...
The trouble with doing this is that it is impossible. You're talking about tv antennae when many people no longer use them, getting their signals via cable, or watching catch-up tv on laptops over a wireless connection. I think like someone else said, the one thing you can make sure you have is plenty of sockets, and I would just make the rest suit you. Things will change quicker than we can imagine, in directions we just can't imagine.
In reply to tlm:
Yes and no. RF signals still need to come down coax from their antennas and we've been using twisted pair data cabling for decades. Exactly what we send down those pipes will change but the basic infrastructure is relatively stable unless you're working at the bleeding edge of performance which I've no interest in.
I'm not looking to tech that may or may not exist in 10 or 15 years time and trying to guess the services it'll require, more trying to make sure if I cracked and bought a TV, satellite decoder and a Playstation I could just plug them in without pulling cables. It's the details like do Sky boxes still require an installed phone line and how many ethernet ports if any does a typical home entertainment cluster need that I'm out of date with.
There's a happy medium between installing junk I won't use for the sake of it and having to trail extension leads around within a couple of years when I find my fridge will no longer work without access to its Facebook account
jk
> The trouble with doing this is that it is impossible... Things will change quicker than we can imagine, in directions we just can't imagine.
Yes and no. RF signals still need to come down coax from their antennas and we've been using twisted pair data cabling for decades. Exactly what we send down those pipes will change but the basic infrastructure is relatively stable unless you're working at the bleeding edge of performance which I've no interest in.
I'm not looking to tech that may or may not exist in 10 or 15 years time and trying to guess the services it'll require, more trying to make sure if I cracked and bought a TV, satellite decoder and a Playstation I could just plug them in without pulling cables. It's the details like do Sky boxes still require an installed phone line and how many ethernet ports if any does a typical home entertainment cluster need that I'm out of date with.
There's a happy medium between installing junk I won't use for the sake of it and having to trail extension leads around within a couple of years when I find my fridge will no longer work without access to its Facebook account
jk
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