/ What To Wear This Winter? Climbing / Mountaineering

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Jordangask - on 31 Oct 2013
What are you guys going to be wearing this winter?

I'm looking at getting a new waterproof shell and down jacket (perhaps hydrophobic down) but i was wondering if any one has any recommendations based on what's new this year?

I'm mainly going to be winter mountaineering/climbing in Scotland!

Thanks
alooker - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Jordangask: the same mashed up soft shell as before. The expensive super light hard shell that I ripped will be staying in the bottom of the bag only to come out in dire circumstances/emergencies!
davidbeynon - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Jordangask:

I'll be wearing my old buffalo shirt and montane salopettes. Toasty warm in all conditions.
planetmarshall on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Jordangask: Hoping this will finally be the year where I climb Point 5 gully in a summer dress from H&M.
thedatastream on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to davidbeynon:
> (In reply to Jordangask)
>
> I'll be wearing my old buffalo shirt and montane salopettes. Toasty warm in all conditions.

^ This but Buffalo salopettes :)
Ron Walker - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Jordangask:

In Scotland, if it's really cold I generally use robust old Paramo waterproofs and robust old Buffalo pile for warmth. Stick with synthetic insulation which still works when wet, doesn't puncture and dries much quicker.

Down is easily damaged and totally useless when wet. I have my doubts about the so called new 'hydrophobic down'. It may work for the first few outings but from my own experience of similar treated down (Nikwax Downproof), long-term, it will soon wear off.

BTW I love down products in the right situation but not when it's going to get wet, damp, dirty and easily damaged - even the leading down gear manufactures acknowledge this... :-(

"new this year.." usually means inflated prices for hyped up products that later turn out to be no better than the existing products and unfortunately in many case worse...
SidharthaDongre - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to thedatastream:

^ This but Buffalo Special 6, both up and down.
davidbeynon - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to SidharthaDongre:

I'm more of a "Big Face" man. The crotch strap is teh sexeh! '-)
CurlyStevo - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Ron Walker:
I proofed a down bag about 5 years ago. I had to wash it recently and it dried about 4 times quicker than it would have if it hadn't been treated (80 p in a tumble drier), so the nikwax treatment does seem to last many years.

I agree though for Scotland you want synthetic insulation. Personally I go for cheap synthetic base layers, cheap micro fleece, stretchy soft shell troos and jacket (non membrane) with a primaloft belay jacket on belays.

I will sometimes carry a waterproof jacket and occasionally waterproof trousers and / or gaiters, but even when carried they are hardly ever used!
Ron Walker - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Like ice screw sharpening, I never wash down, so can't comment on how much quicker it dries... ;-)

I don't like washing down as it's really hard to do properly, without damaging the down and the sleeping bag's baffles.

I used to Nikwax all my gear at the start of the winter and before snow-holing courses, but now rarely bother as it soon wears off by the end of a few five day courses, great for the first few days.

I really can't be bothered re-doing it ever few weeks.
CurlyStevo - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Ron Walker:
Yeah I've had less success with DWR reproofing staying on waterproof jackets (much like yourself).

In my experience there isn't anything wrong with washing down and it doesn't damage all that easily as long as you wash it in a delicates wash with pure soap and dry it properly. My bag is a lightweight one though so I have less issues with the down getting heavy enough to damage the baffles (that plus once you've treated your down once it doesn't soak up nearly as much weight in water the next time)

The last time I washed mine the down wasn't working as well as it should have been and was clogging together a bit due to the amount I've used that bag and it was starting to smell easily especially if used multiple days in a row. Washing it was dead easy (delicates wash in my washing machine with pure soap followed by 80p at the launderette in a drier with 2 tennis balls), and it sorted out the problems making the bag loft at least as well as after last time I washed it 5 years ago and smell nice again :)

Stevo
In reply to Jordangask:
> but i was wondering if any one has any recommendations based on what's new this year?

Few people will have much experience of "what is new this year" yet because winter styles generally arrive in the shops in the autumn. And then you need horrible weather to really test it.

I've got the new Jöttnar system to test, but the weather hasn't been bad enough yet to really use it as intended for example.
Jordangask - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to TobyA: A friend of mine got the Jöttnar Down Jacket yesterday too! Let us know how it turns out when you get to put it through its paces.
iksander on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Jordangask:

>i was wondering if any one has any recommendations based on what's new this year?
>

Last year's top-of-the range stuff, now at less than top of the range prices!
SidharthaDongre - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to davidbeynon:

Do you go in for these underneath then David?

http://www.sportswarehouse.co.uk/products/Buffalo-Supporter.html#.UnKH1xD6R20
davidbeynon - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to SidharthaDongre:

Wow. I hadn't seen those. I think that they might be a bit too much sexeh even for me!
SidharthaDongre - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to davidbeynon:

Indeed! It's no wonder you can only find them on sports direct.
In reply to TobyA: Hi Toby, let us know how you get on, am interested v much in the Alfar.
Choss on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Jordangask:

whatever youre wearing, a Hawaiin Shirt on top, always when climbing. No excuses!
In reply to nickinscottishmountains: Have been using that a fair amount so far and liking it. It's warm but I haven't done any hard hiking in it yet to see how sweaty it gets (I found that a bit under the synth insulation on the rather similar Marmot http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=4447 when xc skiing or similar "fast" pursuits). I was rock climbing in it a few weekends back and it's one of those nicely unnoticeable pieces for that - loads of stretch etc. - but kept me warm on chilly autumn day. So, so far great, but they are pricey! Although I guess similar from other companies are no cheaper.
In reply to davidbeynon:

> Wow. I hadn't seen those.

I had a pair back in the 90s when I was Buffalo partisan, but they looked and felt too ridiculous to ever use - I have been a boxers chap since my early teens anyway.

There weren't many "performance material" pants back then though, now there are loads. Got some RAB MeCo boxers recently which work great and look like normal boxers! Not sure what ever happened to the Buffalo jock strap thingy...
ice.solo - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to Jordangask:

Brynje mesh. Dabbled in it last winter (maybe the wrong world for the product...) and after more use over summer am committing. It simpky makes whatevers over it work better.

Got some new neoshell stuff to try out too, excited about that. And some other polartec offerings.
New BD gear with schoeller too, tried some a month ago, now just waiting for the cold to crank it over multidays.
didntcomelast on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to Jordangask:
I really must be showing my age in this reply. I notice the OP is 19yrs old and talking about buying top of the range, ridiculously expensive down jackets.

When I were 19, my winter climbing outfit was a second hand ski jacket and sallopettes bought from a charity shop ( yes we had them in those days, though there were not as many as today). My steel shanked leather boots were well dubbined and my gloves were a pair of woollen gloves with extra large Marigolds over the top.

The youth of today seem to have far more disposable income than my generation ever had !!

didntcomelast on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to didntcomelast: Just to add, today I wear Paramo, due to its longevity. Aspira pants and a Velez adventure top. Paramo seconds on Fleabay though, wouldn't pay full price for them.
sbc_10 - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to didntcomelast:
> (In reply to Jordangask)

>
> When I were 19...

Without going down the 'Four Yorkshiremen' route, I remember my first Winter attempt at Helvellyn. British army combat jacket over a football jersey, flared jeans ( diameter greater than foot length), big 'commando' boots with screw on soles and a wooly hat my nan probably knitted in the days of rationing. Got completely soaked to the skin but vowed to buy some decent kit from then on.
All these years later, I've got a lot of kit, but no pension.
Still got the wooly hat.

Jordangask - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to didntcomelast: Hey I work hard for my money! It just so happens the only thing i find my self spending it on is my hobby (quickly turning in to a passion) which is climbing and mountaineering (summer, winter and alpine).
BnB - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to Jordangask: Good for you. If you're going to journey, why not travel first class?!!

I learned to hike in breeches and a wax jacket. Give me Goretex and Primaloft any day
didntcomelast on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to Jordangask:

I didn't intend to offend, just making a statement based on experience.

I have no problem with you buying the best gear you can afford, don't be deceived into spending too much on 'this seasons' must have gear though. It will soon be 'so last year!'

Unless you have a few years winter experience behind you, taking the most expensive lightweight clothing on a Scotland trip may prove very costly.

Scottish winter climbing is tough on clothing!!

A few other posters have mentioned good old buffalo gear for Scotland, I also use it because it doesn't break. tears in material are repairable and unlike Goretex wont let you down when you need it most.

An interesting tale can be found on the Needlesport website regarding Buffalo gear and why it works.
Jordangask - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to didntcomelast: No offence taken :)

I suppose you're right, of course there's a sense of naivety and like you said, it's easy, if I have the money, to just go into a shop and get the 'newest' and therefore most expensive gear! But this thread has been quite helpful in letting me see what i might be better off spending my money on, and hell the money saved can go towards my Alps trip for next Summer!
BnB - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to ice.solo:
> (In reply to Jordangask)
>
> Brynje mesh. Dabbled in it last winter (maybe the wrong world for the product...) and after more use over summer am committing. It simpky makes whatevers over it work better.
>
Interested in this stuff and will probably pick one up to try out. Is it the warming/insulating properties or the ability to keep you dry that you rate more?

ads.ukclimbing.com
jonnie3430 - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to Jordangask:
> (In reply to didntcomelast) No offence taken :)
>
> the money saved can go towards my Alps trip for next Summer!

And getting to Scotland this winter! My 2p, everyone is different, you'll need to experiment to find what is best for you, I found that long sleeved baselayers and a pertex windproof for the walkin, add a light fleece and a shell for climbing in, and a belay jacket are the best combo, loadsa gloves too. Decathlon is best to find kit to experiment with, knowing what works for me now I have Patagonia R1 Hoody and DAS Parka as the light fleece and Belay jacket, Paramo Quito is the shell, but getting holey...
iksander on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to BnB:
> (In reply to ice.solo)
> [...]
> Interested in this stuff and will probably pick one up to try out. Is it the warming/insulating properties or the ability to keep you dry that you rate more?

It keeps you dry (really dry, not soggy like merino), which then keeps you warm. None of this changing your base layer at the foot of the crag madness. Which is lucky because your mates will die laughing when they see you in a skintight fishnet top.
BnB - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to iksander:
> (In reply to BnB)
> [...]
>
> It keeps you dry (really dry, not soggy like merino), which then keeps you warm. None of this changing your base layer at the foot of the crag madness. Which is lucky because your mates will die laughing when they see you in a skintight fishnet top.

What makes you think they haven't already? I'm from back in the day ;-)
MtnGeekUK - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to didntcomelast:
> (In reply to didntcomelast) Just to add, today I wear Paramo, due to its longevity. Aspira pants and a Velez adventure top.

How do find the Velez Adventure top for durability - warm too warm in full weight paramo, even in winter!
Am liking the R1 / Paramo / DAS combo further down.

I was thinking R1 / lightweight Paramo / ME Fitzroy

Have the vientos for the bottom half.
Ron Walker - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to iksander:
> (In reply to BnB)
> [...]
>
> It keeps you dry (really dry, not soggy like merino), which then keeps you warm. None of this changing your base layer at the foot of the crag madness. Which is lucky because your mates will die laughing when they see you in a skintight fishnet top.

Most experience folk I know still do this, minus the fishnet top and during the winter most outdoor labourers wore tights!!!

ice.solo - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to iksander:
> (In reply to BnB)
> [...]
>
> It keeps you dry (really dry, not soggy like merino), which then keeps you warm. None of this changing your base layer at the foot of the crag madness. Which is lucky because your mates will die laughing when they see you in a skintight fishnet top.

Exactly this.

To make it even worse, i cut open the crotch gusset of mine to match the thru zips on my shell trousers.
People dont laugh at me, they whisper worriedly.
In reply to iksander:

> It keeps you dry (really dry, not soggy like merino),

But all the sweat has to go somewhere, so presumably your mid layer just gets wetter? That's not a bad thing, but I'm going to sweat just as much regardless of what baselayer I wear I think.
CurlyStevo - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to TobyA: I think the opposite is true. the merino traps the water vapour and sweat and makes me damper when a fleece on a synthetic base layer with a soft shell on top keeps me dry as long as im not over heating too much.
needvert on 02 Nov 2013
How does the mesh wear against the skin in load bearing areas? (Pack shoulders, harness). I reckon I'll order one and try it out.

ice.solo - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to needvert:

No noticeable issues.
Worth noting its standard stuff for various winter and amphibious military groups. Popular for use under drysuits.
coldwill - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to ice.solo: so which version are you using, my wool shirt was dropped in the dryer by mistake and shrank to about half it's original size. I didn't replace it as I wasn't too impressed for the price, I'm guessing the poly stuff is good though?
ice.solo - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to coldwill:

The brynje (sp) merkalon (sp) ones.
I dont really get into the wool element, only for very cold, slow stuff. Mesh then an alpga or primaloft layer, maybe a thin base t shirt if im hangin out in public.
coldwill - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to ice.solo: indeed, good old Isofil. Not into wool either, it just doesn't dry fast enough. Almost tempted by the mesh again, hmmm
BnB - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to coldwill: I feel a charity calendar coming on.
Simon Wells - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

I used a mesh top last year under a merino or patagnia R1 hoody, with pertex wind proof over the top, then vapour rise over the top to climbing in. Meant I could deal with the -5 walk in with out wetting layers. If a wet walk in a paramo over the string, with a vapour rise over the to climb and das parka for belays.

Worked very well apart from running into an ex student on the Ben path with the R1 zipped down to my navel reveling my sweaty body clad in fishnet!!!

Poor guy is still in counseling.
ice.solo - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to Simon Wells:

ha yes. my boss - who got me into it - is a tough old boy with a distinguished career doing dubious deeds, cultivated, but still a man to be reckoned with even beyond his prime, and he wears it. we do a few climbing days together each year and agree just not to mention it.

thats an interesting system you descibe.
didntcomelast on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to MtnGeekUK: sorry for the delayed reply. I find the Velez to be fine for everything bar day long heavy rain, though to be honest I get damp in goretex in those conditions.

I have used the velez with merino base layers in Scotland no problem. A primal oft belay jacket as additional warmth on stances.

I have worn the velez / aspira combo at 4000m in the Alps with no problem.

I have never sort to back up the velez with an additional hard shell as I know I will be damp anyway either through sweat or weather.

avictimoftheDrpsycho - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to Jordangask:

Gosh, I'm sure some people are more interested in what gear they wear than the actual climbing. Unless your old stuff is completely knackered, I'd recommend not wasting money on new clothes just to fit with 'what's new' and save the money to do some climbing. Will you be going to London Fashion Week as well?
iksander on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to TobyA: I wear a tight thin synthetic layer (MEC T2 hoody as it happens) over the brynje. Keeps the air still next to your body (warm) and buffers the moisture til it can evaporate.
nufkin - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to Simon Wells:

> I used a mesh top last year under a merino or patagnia R1 hoody, with pertex wind proof over the top,

I've also had good results with this sort of combo for the past few years in Scotland. I still change tops before climbing cus I sweat loads, but on the route itself the brynje stuff does seem to keep me dryer and warmer
BnB - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to avictimoftheDrpsycho: I'd see if you still feel that way at 49 before offering clothing system advice to chaps twice your age. Believe me, clothing comfort becomes hugely more important as you mature. It's part of getting old but if you can enjoy battling that discomfort with some gear shopping, why not?
davidbeynon - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to Jordangask:

Just a general comment on "latest" vs "last years" gear. In general kit evolves a lot more slowly than marketing departments would have you believe, so while there is a noticeable difference between gear you get now and stuff from a decade ago there is usually hardly any difference between this years kit and last years.

In some cases I would take the decade old gear anyway. Anyone else miss indestructible triple point ceramic?
avictimoftheDrpsycho - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to BnB:
> (In reply to avictimoftheDrpsycho) Believe me, clothing comfort becomes hugely more important as you mature. It's part of getting old but if you can enjoy battling that discomfort with some gear shopping, why not?

OP is 19 as well BnB.

mattrm - on 02 Nov 2013
In reply to Jordangask:

To answer the OP:

R1 as a baselayer
Patagonia Knifeblade troos (I'm experimenting with softshells this year)
Probably something like Arcteryx Atom Hoody on top

With the normal mix of Precip overtroos and Montane jacket.
BnB - on 03 Nov 2013
In reply to avictimoftheDrpsycho: Good point and once that I had missed, but I did get the impression you were addressing the group as well as the OP. I guess your message could perhaps be to find a system that works without chasing the latest trends, while respecting everyone's right to enjoy the mountain in their own particular way.
BnB - on 05 Nov 2013
In reply to iksander:
> (In reply to BnB)
> [...]
>
> Brynje keeps you dry (really dry, not soggy like merino), which then keeps you warm. None of this changing your base layer at the foot of the crag madness. Which is lucky because your mates will die laughing when they see you in a skintight fishnet top.

Which would anyone recommend in the following configurations, the long sleeve or short sleeve version?

a) Under Atom LT/Rab Strata (warm sleeves)
b) Under midweight softshell

In either case then with optional hardshell for rough weather and Primaloft 100 belay jacket.

I'm trying to work out which is less worse: potentially very hot arms or soaking the sleeves of my precious midlayer with sweat ;-).

Understood that YMMV.


Mr-Cowdrey on 05 Nov 2013
In reply to Jordangask: this is what I wear/ will be wearing:

BASE LAYER
- RAB MeCo 250*
- Arcteryx SV thingy*

MID LAYER
- ME Eclipse hooded Zip Tee (L/W fleece)
- RAB Shadow Hoody* (H/W fleece)
- Marmot Variant* (synthetic insulation layer)
- Patagonia Nano Puff Hoody ( As above)

SHELL LAYER
- RAB Alpine pull on (wind shell)
- RAB Cirrus pull on (wind shell)
- RAB Exodus* (Soft Shell)
- RAB Fusion* (Soft shell)
- RAB Volt Jacket (Hard shell)
- Marmot Spire Jacket* (Hard shell)

INSULATION
- RAB Microlight Alpine Hoody (Down)
- MH Gravitor Jacket* (Synthetic)

TROOS
- Marmot Midweight bottoms*
- Mammut Advanced base jump II*
- MH synchro bibs*
- Marmot Precip full zip* (Hard shell)
- ME Changabang pant (Hard shell)

* = already owned. I'm thinking about playing with my system this year, especially in the alps, and trying to find a system for all manner of conditions and climbs :)
Mr-Cowdrey on 05 Nov 2013
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey: oh, and a knitted wool hat :)
Robert Durran - on 05 Nov 2013
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
> (In reply to Jordangask) this is what I wear/ will be wearing:
>
> BASE LAYER
> - RAB MeCo 250*
> - Arcteryx SV thingy*
>
> MID LAYER
> - ME Eclipse hooded Zip Tee (L/W fleece)
> - RAB Shadow Hoody* (H/W fleece)
> - Marmot Variant* (synthetic insulation layer)
> - Patagonia Nano Puff Hoody ( As above)
>
> SHELL LAYER
> - RAB Alpine pull on (wind shell)
> - RAB Cirrus pull on (wind shell)
> - RAB Exodus* (Soft Shell)
> - RAB Fusion* (Soft shell)
> - RAB Volt Jacket (Hard shell)
> - Marmot Spire Jacket* (Hard shell)
>
> INSULATION
> - RAB Microlight Alpine Hoody (Down)
> - MH Gravitor Jacket* (Synthetic)
>
> TROOS
> - Marmot Midweight bottoms*
> - Mammut Advanced base jump II*
> - MH synchro bibs*
> - Marmot Precip full zip* (Hard shell)
> - ME Changabang pant (Hard shell)

At last! Some one who feels the cold even more than me. I only wear 7 layers.
iksander on 05 Nov 2013
In reply to BnB:
> (In reply to iksander)
> [...]
>
> Which would anyone recommend in the following configurations, the long sleeve or short sleeve version?

For yomping or standing around? I only ever wear a primaloft vest at most as "active" insulation. But I don't think the long sleeved brynje would make your arms "hot", like for example a long sleeved powerstretch top might
ads.ukclimbing.com
BnB - on 05 Nov 2013
In reply to iksander:
> (In reply to BnB)
> [...]
>
> For yomping or standing around? I only ever wear a primaloft vest at most as "active" insulation. But I don't think the long sleeved brynje would make your arms "hot", like for example a long sleeved powerstretch top might

For climbing and belaying, so a bit of both.

I tend to generate heat fast, and lose it fast too. I suppose you could say I have a low specific heat capacity.

So I need highly breathable layers which dump heat fast when active but with good insulating capability when stuck mid route on the crux (every pitch for me has a crux!!). Going to be giving the Rab Strata (Primaloft Alpha) a good workout and trying to work out the underlayer(s). Want to avoid getting itchy!!
Mr-Cowdrey on 05 Nov 2013
In reply to Robert Durran: I'll do away with the hat if I get a bit warm...
dartfordkev - on 07 Nov 2013
I will mostly be wearing a hat!
Darkskys - on 07 Nov 2013
In reply to Jordangask:
Bottom half: Ronhills and Hardshell pants
If dry - running tights and soft shell pants

Top half - merino base later or synthetic (depends on temp)
Fleece with hood
Hard shell
Maybe primaloft jacket if needed

I'm yeh to figure out which system works for me, but I've always found if you make it sound easy, then it'll be easy.
If you start getting cold...work harder
Robbo1 - on 08 Nov 2013
In reply to BnB: I have the t-shirt Brynje mesh and used it last winter (it is great) but have just ordered the long sleeve version. I found that when my windshell got wet it started clinging to my arms, which then got cold (and made my hands cold too). Probably not as much of an issue if you wear another base layer over the mesh but I don't bother.
Robert Durran - on 08 Nov 2013
In reply to Robbo1:
> (In reply to BnB) I have the t-shirt Brynje mesh.....

What's this Brynge thing? Is it basically and old-school string vest?
BnB - on 08 Nov 2013
In reply to Robbo1: Thanks. Point taken about the sleeves, and with those in mind my current thinking is for Brynje short sleeve tee shirt, long sleeve Boreas as "cap" layer (and to insulate arms from outer), Rab Strata/Atom LT as outer, with hardshell for wild days and thrutching.

Without the Boreas wind shirt as a secondary base/midlayer I'd be looking at long sleeved vest I guess.
iksander on 08 Nov 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Robbo1)
> [...]
>
> What's this Brynge thing? Is it basically and old-school string vest?

Yep, but made from meraklon not cotton

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