/ Smiling Buttress First Ascent
Wow! Looking forward to hearing more.
Wasnt it supposed to have an english 7c move on it?
Wow. How long ago was Hard Grit filmed? Mid-nineties?
7c was pure hyperbole UK tech grades are very wide at the top. However as a microroute in an area popular with wads it has had a lot of suitors so this is a very significant ascent, even if it would be a boulder problem in the US.
Yeah hyperbole is good. Hyperbollox? :)
Sick hard according to Mr Moon!
> Sick hard
is that some sort of STI?
Would be interesting to hear more info on this. Obviously heard of the old project, but just quite how trad is it and how hard is it?
Good job anyway,
It defeated many of the best until now so 'sick hard' is a pretty good description. My view on grades at the very top is that we won't know for a few decades as so few people operate at this level that any current consensus might be very morpho (the grade given might even be too low a grade for a nominal average).
I'm not so sure. I reckon if people keep an eye on what people are better at now than they used to be and what people will improve at, then grading shouldn't be too far out. Boulder strength, endurance... these things are all around in much bigger masses and need to be given less weight when grading.
But that's off topic anyway...
> It defeated many of the best until now so 'sick hard' is a pretty good description. My view on grades at the very top is that we won't know for a few decades as so few people operate at this level that any current consensus might be very morpho (the grade given might even be too low a grade for a nominal average).
Think we can safely say its going to be 7b or more though
But what's he ever done on...
Oh, okay, fair enough.
You might think that wouldn't you but then look how many top-end or groundbreaking routes in history got regraded (up and down). I'd say its very much on topic if it gets given 7a.
You are entirely right Franco, and are perhaps the perfect person to knock sense into people on this issue! Grade things properly (that is, with appropriately high numbers) and don't listen to detractors.
> is that some sort of STI?
> but just quite how trad is it and how hard is it?
Not trad at all - a headpointed highball above a load of mats. Dropping the last move could be messy, but otherwise pretty safe.
How hard - no idea. Hard section is just a couple of moves, so yeah either UK 7c or at least 'proper' 7b!
Looking forward to seeing the photos...
Boulder problems in the NYMs have more than one grade? Madness.
Font grade describe the difficulty of the problem, not an individual move. A one-move 7B will have a singular harder move than those that exist in a 6 move 7B for example.
Sequence - which could be multiple moves?
One hold to another?
Never quite as simple as one move to another as the same route may have several viable crux sequences and maybe use different holds.
It always struck me as one of the more obvious difficulties of the tech grade in that it relied on people agreeing what constituted a move.
Indeed some routes I've done have alternative sequences that are individually easier but take longer meaning that some people prefer to do a harder single move instead of a sequence of slightly easier ones to the same end. What would be the tech grade then: the harder single move that most do or the easier moves that only stamina weaklings like me would do to avoid having to pull hard? ;-)
There's no real answer to this because I think it's fundamentally impossible to identify a single agreed hardest necessary move on many routes. Somehow the tech grade is still useful in spite of this - I suppose because most routes will be climbed roughly the same way by most people - but I still think that a Font grade is conceptually more useful.
I completely agree with what you are saying except with the original statement...
... unless the caveat of a 'single move' is applied... whatever that might be ;-)
I guess you have to make moves like that look easy or you're off.
is there a video of the climbing?
nice one ukc, lets have a grade discussion as usual.
well done ty, awesome
> is there a video of the climbing?
Ben Pritchard filmed it. No idea how it'd get released but at least it will be quality, whatever format it comes out in!
In the meantime, has anyone got a picture that shows the line?
No line marked but the butress is here:
Really pleased to hear that. Can't wait.
none. theres no english grading system.
Are you splitting hairs re. the British technical grading system? Or British bouldering grading system? for example. And what's the Southern Sandstone grading system if it's not English (English, because it doesn't quite align with rest of UK technical grades)?
no, just presenting facts and being awkward gordon. but more importantly in my first post stating general discontent with yet another great piece of climbing being discussed by letters and number.
It probably wouldn't be great if the letters and numbers were not impressive.
> No line marked but the butress is here:
Which part of that picture?
I don't know for sure but I'd guess the buttress with the smile on it? kind of third major buttress from the left.
I've never heard of him. What's he ever done on.... Oh hang on.
One of the comments near the bottom explains where it is. Good line!
I already did that one...
> nice one ukc, lets have a grade discussion as usual.
It would be odd if people didn't wonder.
These grades came from southern sandstone who borrowed the idea from font. Add mystique and grade creep et voila: 'UK' tech. Maybe we should have stuck with the original.
In that linked photo Smiling Buttress is the one just left of centre. On the left side wall is a faint white crescent which is the smile feature.
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