UKC

Hi, I have spent the summer climbing in Orkney and was happily climbing up to HVS 5b, and comfortably at S/VS (all roped lead solo). But I have recently moved south and have been doing most of my climbing in Northumberland and North Yorkshire and it feels like the grades are much harder e.g a VDiff down here feels like a S up there and S down here feels more like HVS.

I was wondering if anybody could shed any light on this or has any experience of climbing in these areas.

In reply to 1176gws:

I've never climbed in Northumberland, but I've heard that there are VSs up there that will shut down an average E4 leader.

I've climbed quite a lot in North Yorkshire. On the trad limestone, e.g. Malham Right Wing I found that HVS 5b was usually steep, sustained and fairly well protected 5b (and hard because of polish) - and thus would be graded E2 in Pembroke.

On the grit the grades often seemed hard too. A lot of people get a hard time at Almscliff but I don't think it's too bad, more a style thing: the routes are very strenuous.

Basically Yorkshire and Northumberland have massively stiff grades, completely different to other areas. I haven't climbed in Orkney, but I have climbed in NW Scotland where I irritate several people on here by banging on and on about how the grades there are really soft. Like E3s that feel HVS type soft. Maybe Orkney is nearer that end of the scale, I don't know?

The massive regional variation just makes a complete mockery of the idea that the grades offer an objective scale of difficulty. They're not, they're just people's opinions, biased in all sorts of ways in different places.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Oh please do stop banging on and on FFS.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I don't know what you're talking about.

In reply to Jon Stewart:
>I think they'd have to be a very average E4 leader!

In reply to 1176gws: I was in Croatia sport climbing last year and found the grades insane! like a 6a would feel like 6c in worst case scenario but normally you would just add a whole grade. We later found out from one of the bolters that they all have massive ego's and more or less deliberately sandbagged all their routes to not look weak and now its just become the standard... Maybe its a similar reason which people just accepted when the routes got established?

In reply to Gile5: I had similar thoughts about Almscliff, the grades don't initially seem equivalent to other nearby grit crags. I always wondered if the people that climbed there first, graded them high deliberately.

But now I feel it's more a case of Alsmcliff requiring a more unique climbing style compared to the surrounding area. Once you get to grips with the technique required, the grades seem fair.

I suppose this can be applied to most places - perhaps with some exceptions such as the ones you mentioned in Croatia?

In reply to mrplastique:
I think swanage is similar. Its steep and sustained but with good gear, often the moves aren't too hard, but you can't hang around for ever fiddeling in gear.