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I know there are lots of teachers that use UKC so this might be a good place to canvas for opinions. I've been considering a mid-life career change; 20 years ago I thought the last thing I'd wanted to do was teach but increasingly I've been thinking about it. This began from realising that despite not expecting to at all, I really enjoyed the lecturing and tutoring I did to undergraduates a few years back, and then in last couple of years being asked to do some substitute teaching in a school and really enjoying that. I also have family members and good friends who teach both in the UK and Finland (current home) plus I tend to follow the debate around education policy with some interest - so I have I think a pretty realistic expectation of what teaching is.
I've been looking at PGCE courses and wondering what would make sense with my academic background (PhD international politics, but earlier degrees in European security politics and sociology/philosophy) and PGCE Social Sciences or PGCE citizenship seem to be what I'd be best qualified for. Does anyone know anyone who has done either of them? It seems the downside to either is there aren't many straight "social science teacher" or "citizenship teacher" jobs, but one uni offering the soc. sci. pgce has 100% employment record for its graduates, and one with the citz. pgce had a high 90s record; so it seems with some flexibility there are positions. It seems that social sciences is most likely to lead you to teaching 16-19, whilst citizenship is national curriculum for a bit younger kids.
Any thoughts/experiences/words of encouragement/jeers of derision etc.?
I've been looking at PGCE courses and wondering what would make sense with my academic background (PhD international politics, but earlier degrees in European security politics and sociology/philosophy) and PGCE Social Sciences or PGCE citizenship seem to be what I'd be best qualified for. Does anyone know anyone who has done either of them? It seems the downside to either is there aren't many straight "social science teacher" or "citizenship teacher" jobs, but one uni offering the soc. sci. pgce has 100% employment record for its graduates, and one with the citz. pgce had a high 90s record; so it seems with some flexibility there are positions. It seems that social sciences is most likely to lead you to teaching 16-19, whilst citizenship is national curriculum for a bit younger kids.
Any thoughts/experiences/words of encouragement/jeers of derision etc.?
In reply to TobyA:
Have you had a look back at the similar previous threads about teaching in general? They tend to be a bit on the depressing side...
Have you had a look back at the similar previous threads about teaching in general? They tend to be a bit on the depressing side...
In reply to Jon Stewart: I will have a look but lots of us moan about jobs though - regardless of what it is. I've been reading various discussion on other forums (often for teachers or those interested - TES for example) and I'd say the impression you get is mixed between +ve and -ve.
Coming at a profession after doing another job though often gives people different perspectives.
Coming at a profession after doing another job though often gives people different perspectives.
In reply to TobyA: I keep considering, applied twice, had a place at Bangor for last August and took one more postdoc.. no idea if it was the right idea. I'd quite like to but want to have a good run at research soon. My brothers a head in an international school so similar with family.
I worked as a class room assistant for a year (volunteer), when in my PhD and loved it and that was in a really rough school. It'd be a good age to teach. 16-19.
I worked as a class room assistant for a year (volunteer), when in my PhD and loved it and that was in a really rough school. It'd be a good age to teach. 16-19.
In reply to Father Noel Furlong: Probably the other bit, TBH I haven't looked into the Scottish system. I'd love to live in Glasgow again although it would be a 'big' move for my family.
In reply to TobyA:
I did a PGCE a couple of years ago. I enjoyed it, but even from a background working 60 hour weeks in industry, I found it pretty exhausting and hard work.
I love being in the classroom teaching. The kids are great. Many people moan about behaviour at secondary level, but the kids weren't the problem for me - it was some of the other adults! A shame so many teachers are apathetic, whingeing types who can see what's going wrong in UK education but don't say or do anything about it. For me, as a mature student with a "can do" approach it has been frustrating at times.
I now teach physics and chemistry (16-18) at a top school in China. Worlds apart from teaching 11-16 in the UK, with different challenges. I still work long hours, but prefer it here because most of that time is spent on things that will benefit the students and not on box-tikcing bureaucratic nonsense. The students here have a 13-hour school day, 6 days per week and at times I wonder how the dumbing down of the UK system and the assumption that kids can't work hard will affect long-term prosperity. Here the kids are doing calculus and mechanics at age 15, and most of them have it nailed.
I gave up a pretty lucrative career to come into teaching and it was a good move. From what I saw, secondary education in the UK has major problems, but it definitely needs people with experience outside teaching to enter the profession, with a fresh outlook and a more positive approach. If you try teaching in the UK and at some point decide it isn't for you then there are obviously a lot of opportunities abroad. I earn a little more here in China than back home, my accommodation is provided and the cost of living is about 1/3 of what it is in the UK. I couldn't stay here for more than a few years though!!
I'd say go for it - give it a go. It probably isn't for everyone but if you don't try it you'll never know. Social sciences would be a good option, as I know that here they find social science teachers very hard to find.
Good luck with it!
I did a PGCE a couple of years ago. I enjoyed it, but even from a background working 60 hour weeks in industry, I found it pretty exhausting and hard work.
I love being in the classroom teaching. The kids are great. Many people moan about behaviour at secondary level, but the kids weren't the problem for me - it was some of the other adults! A shame so many teachers are apathetic, whingeing types who can see what's going wrong in UK education but don't say or do anything about it. For me, as a mature student with a "can do" approach it has been frustrating at times.
I now teach physics and chemistry (16-18) at a top school in China. Worlds apart from teaching 11-16 in the UK, with different challenges. I still work long hours, but prefer it here because most of that time is spent on things that will benefit the students and not on box-tikcing bureaucratic nonsense. The students here have a 13-hour school day, 6 days per week and at times I wonder how the dumbing down of the UK system and the assumption that kids can't work hard will affect long-term prosperity. Here the kids are doing calculus and mechanics at age 15, and most of them have it nailed.
I gave up a pretty lucrative career to come into teaching and it was a good move. From what I saw, secondary education in the UK has major problems, but it definitely needs people with experience outside teaching to enter the profession, with a fresh outlook and a more positive approach. If you try teaching in the UK and at some point decide it isn't for you then there are obviously a lot of opportunities abroad. I earn a little more here in China than back home, my accommodation is provided and the cost of living is about 1/3 of what it is in the UK. I couldn't stay here for more than a few years though!!
I'd say go for it - give it a go. It probably isn't for everyone but if you don't try it you'll never know. Social sciences would be a good option, as I know that here they find social science teachers very hard to find.
Good luck with it!
In reply to TobyA: I'd like to add, dependant on what subject you choose, you'll be teaching at different educational institutions. Certain universities don't accept what are viewed as "weaker subjects", e.g. sociology, but politics is a good one.
In reply to 1234None: Thanks! I guess being one of the 'chosen breed' who want to (and can! teach maths and physics, you were able to get a bursary for your PGCE? The cost is not an insignificant factor for subject areas where the govt. aren't trying as hard to attract people.
In reply to TobyA:
Something to consider is where you do it- I did the Scottish PGDE Primary at Edinburgh which is the PGCE equivalent (actually seemed to be easier from what I gather). The advantages being a guaranteed probation (NQT) year and that fact you can switch and teach in England no hassle- awkward to go the other way. Oh, and schools in some places in Scotland close at noon on Fridays
Something to consider is where you do it- I did the Scottish PGDE Primary at Edinburgh which is the PGCE equivalent (actually seemed to be easier from what I gather). The advantages being a guaranteed probation (NQT) year and that fact you can switch and teach in England no hassle- awkward to go the other way. Oh, and schools in some places in Scotland close at noon on Fridays
In reply to TobyA:
When I'm not sitting on the cludgie browsing on the Kindle I'll post my thoughts from a Scottish perspective.
When I'm not sitting on the cludgie browsing on the Kindle I'll post my thoughts from a Scottish perspective.
In reply to TobyA:
Maybe worth considering a SCITT scheme (School-Centred Initial Training Scheme - it comes up in google), where you do your PGCE year in a school (with some time spent in a partner school, as well as private study time and off-campus training days). There are bursaries available, and most of the students have moved into education from a completely different career, which gives the whole thing a much more mature slant than a college course. Many SCITT students hit the ground running and are very successful teachers. (There again, some get very frustrated with the whole nonsense of the English education system, compared with the workplaces they have come from, and quite a substantial proportion leave within about three years. That's not to do with the SCITT, it's to do with the system within which it works).
For myself, after 15 years in the English education system I ran away screaming, and nothing much would tempt me back. Depends how well you deal with the hierarchies, internal politics and oneupmanship of a cloistered environment. The students are brilliant: it's the adults who are the problem.
Maybe worth considering a SCITT scheme (School-Centred Initial Training Scheme - it comes up in google), where you do your PGCE year in a school (with some time spent in a partner school, as well as private study time and off-campus training days). There are bursaries available, and most of the students have moved into education from a completely different career, which gives the whole thing a much more mature slant than a college course. Many SCITT students hit the ground running and are very successful teachers. (There again, some get very frustrated with the whole nonsense of the English education system, compared with the workplaces they have come from, and quite a substantial proportion leave within about three years. That's not to do with the SCITT, it's to do with the system within which it works).
For myself, after 15 years in the English education system I ran away screaming, and nothing much would tempt me back. Depends how well you deal with the hierarchies, internal politics and oneupmanship of a cloistered environment. The students are brilliant: it's the adults who are the problem.
In reply to TobyA: MrsTheDog is in her NQT year hvaing done the PGCE last year, I've posted quite a bit on the teaching threads on here about how much work she is having to do and stuff.
the long an dthe short of it is that to my way of thinking unless you ahve a burning passion for teaching that allows you to work several hours per day over and above 8-5 and work on the holidays and then have the head say by the way we now want you to do this extra (despite there being no time for it) because ofstead are coming sometime this term all for naff all money (I know some teachers are well paid but MrsTheDog is paid about 21.5K maybe 22k)DON'T DO IT.
MrsTheDog got into teaching because she thought she would like it and shedoes, she enjoys the teaching, she even sometimes enjoys the planning but if you asked her about getting into teaching now she would say don't and that's only 6 months into a career. Many of her colleagues are looking to get out of teaching saying that over the past few years it has gotten worse and worse.
In my old job assessing people with mental health problems I had a few teachers come through my door with poor mental health easily attributed in part/large part to burnout/stress.
the long an dthe short of it is that to my way of thinking unless you ahve a burning passion for teaching that allows you to work several hours per day over and above 8-5 and work on the holidays and then have the head say by the way we now want you to do this extra (despite there being no time for it) because ofstead are coming sometime this term all for naff all money (I know some teachers are well paid but MrsTheDog is paid about 21.5K maybe 22k)DON'T DO IT.
MrsTheDog got into teaching because she thought she would like it and shedoes, she enjoys the teaching, she even sometimes enjoys the planning but if you asked her about getting into teaching now she would say don't and that's only 6 months into a career. Many of her colleagues are looking to get out of teaching saying that over the past few years it has gotten worse and worse.
In my old job assessing people with mental health problems I had a few teachers come through my door with poor mental health easily attributed in part/large part to burnout/stress.
In reply to TobyA: And we are not particularly negative people. I'm really quite positive normally, bordering on irritatingly so. the impact of MRSTHEDOG's job on my life is not to be underestimated either. it wouldn't be just you doing teaching. I have to do lots more in life to facilitate the time mrsthedog needs.
In reply to blondel:
It's the adults and the system that are the MAIN problem. I've had mates who left schols (and some who left teaching) because of the kids in some schools: its not fair not to make this clear (even if the school management was to mostly blame for letting it get that way). My view is you really need to want to do it and you need talent in the subject you are teaching (in understanding and in enthusiastic portrayal at a level the kids will follow).
It's the adults and the system that are the MAIN problem. I've had mates who left schols (and some who left teaching) because of the kids in some schools: its not fair not to make this clear (even if the school management was to mostly blame for letting it get that way). My view is you really need to want to do it and you need talent in the subject you are teaching (in understanding and in enthusiastic portrayal at a level the kids will follow).
In reply to 1234None:
Japan and Korea had similar education systems but they continue to waste many of the gains by not letting the kids free at the end... deference and the lack of innovation and imagination has and will continue to hold the eastern powerhouses back, irrespective of the political system. Europe and the US still out-run them in terms of new developments despite the wonderful efforts you describe. I'm not so sure they all have calculus 'nailed' as well as you think either.. we have students from China with great marks who can't think so well beyond the examples drummed into them.
You're not old enough or embedded enough to see what happened to those teachers that lost enthusiasm; many will have started with plenty and yet Ive seen some positive minded teachers lose it all and end up sick when badly handled by a manager (over something originally pretty trivial). I'm sure some staff are to blame for their own behaviour but many got put in a bad place by the people above them or the kids (in badly run schools) or the 'grind' of the English system itself (more and more work, more tightly prescribed, less pay and pension).
I do think the fresh outlook of those with outside professional experience is good for our schools .
Japan and Korea had similar education systems but they continue to waste many of the gains by not letting the kids free at the end... deference and the lack of innovation and imagination has and will continue to hold the eastern powerhouses back, irrespective of the political system. Europe and the US still out-run them in terms of new developments despite the wonderful efforts you describe. I'm not so sure they all have calculus 'nailed' as well as you think either.. we have students from China with great marks who can't think so well beyond the examples drummed into them.
You're not old enough or embedded enough to see what happened to those teachers that lost enthusiasm; many will have started with plenty and yet Ive seen some positive minded teachers lose it all and end up sick when badly handled by a manager (over something originally pretty trivial). I'm sure some staff are to blame for their own behaviour but many got put in a bad place by the people above them or the kids (in badly run schools) or the 'grind' of the English system itself (more and more work, more tightly prescribed, less pay and pension).
I do think the fresh outlook of those with outside professional experience is good for our schools .
In reply to 1234None:
Could you give us a brief account of what you see as the big problems?
> From what I saw, secondary education in the UK has major problems ...
Could you give us a brief account of what you see as the big problems?
In reply to IainRUK: I'm in a very similar position to you (though maybe a few years behind if you're talking about "one more postdoc" - I'm on my first), and have come to similar conclusions: Keep running at research until it dries up, but teaching still sounds interesting! I'm following the thread with interest.
Back on the main topic, one of the biggest influences in my life was an MIC-qualified biology teacher at school, who used to take us ('us' vaguely defined as the outdoor-interested pupils) climbing all over the country, even out to the Alps, and I'd love to follow in his footsteps, IF the growing litigation culture permits... (that said, this was a private school and done under the auspices of CCF 'Adventurous Training', so he had quite a lot of freedom in what we could do, as well as the backing of several MLs of both flavours on staff and MIA/MIC friends he could bring in, allowing for larger trips).
It's certainly something to consider for experienced mountaineers, and if you've got the tickets (even having done something as little as just the training for the SPA or ML will show willing) it's a major string to your bow if looking for a job at a school that does that sort of stuff.
Back on the main topic, one of the biggest influences in my life was an MIC-qualified biology teacher at school, who used to take us ('us' vaguely defined as the outdoor-interested pupils) climbing all over the country, even out to the Alps, and I'd love to follow in his footsteps, IF the growing litigation culture permits... (that said, this was a private school and done under the auspices of CCF 'Adventurous Training', so he had quite a lot of freedom in what we could do, as well as the backing of several MLs of both flavours on staff and MIA/MIC friends he could bring in, allowing for larger trips).
It's certainly something to consider for experienced mountaineers, and if you've got the tickets (even having done something as little as just the training for the SPA or ML will show willing) it's a major string to your bow if looking for a job at a school that does that sort of stuff.
In reply to all: I'm perfectly interested in the state of education in the UK etc. but I was wondering if anyone out there is involved in teaching at school or college level either social sciences (sociology/politics/psychology etc.) or citizenship. I read for example that in many schools citizenship teaching gets given out to other subject teachers, so despite the fact you can train to specialise in that, there aren't many schools that have a specific teacher for it. Likewise what social science is taught pre-16? A long time ago now, but I did a GCSE in what was called "integrated humanities" which covered history, politics and I guess some basic economics, philosophy and sociology too. Don't know if anything similar is still taught, or if it's back to the classics of just history and geography?
In reply to TobyA:
How about a PGCE further education?
Teach A level and Other post 16 education in your subjects.
How about a PGCE further education?
Teach A level and Other post 16 education in your subjects.
In reply to TobyA: can you become a secondary school teacher with only one school subject ? I thought you had to have two subjects which you'd studied for at least 2 years as an undergrad - but maybe that's only for Scotland (memory rusty but I remember something like that as back in the 90s when I looking at job options I'd be allowed to teach biology & chemistry but not geography even though my joint honours includes 'environmental science' (pretty much geography under another name) as environmental science wasn't on the approved subject list)
In reply to 1234None:
Yeah - I did calculus in the uk for my maths 'o' level at age 15... but it was back in the dark ages.
> Here the kids are doing calculus and mechanics at age 15, and most of them have it nailed.
Yeah - I did calculus in the uk for my maths 'o' level at age 15... but it was back in the dark ages.
In reply to TobyA:
You may be too old and subjects irrelevant but you could look at Teach First for accelerated PGCE.
You may be too old and subjects irrelevant but you could look at Teach First for accelerated PGCE.
In reply to winhill: I have had a look at the other pathways which are interesting but IIRC with Teach First you don't get a PGCE, and I want that as it is the recognised teaching qualification within the EU. Then I could also possibly teach in Finland, where there are a number of English language schools and lots of Finnish speaking schools with an "English language stream" within them.
In reply to TobyA:
They also have a bit of a "cult" air about them. Tread carefully.
> (In reply to winhill) I have had a look at the other pathways which are interesting but IIRC with Teach First
They also have a bit of a "cult" air about them. Tread carefully.
In reply to MG:
Is that true?
The US version, Teach for America, where high flying graduates do five weeks training then get put straight into inner city schools is coming in for ever increasing flak it seems. I guess the general argument is you can't possibly get enough training in that limited time.
> They also have a bit of a "cult" air about them. Tread carefully.
Is that true?
The US version, Teach for America, where high flying graduates do five weeks training then get put straight into inner city schools is coming in for ever increasing flak it seems. I guess the general argument is you can't possibly get enough training in that limited time.
In reply to TobyA:
Training can only take you so far in teaching it's time in the class figuring out what works for you that makes the difference.
> (In reply to MG)
>
> [...]
>
> Is that true?
>
> I guess the general argument is you can't possibly get enough training in that limited time.
>
> [...]
>
> Is that true?
>
> I guess the general argument is you can't possibly get enough training in that limited time.
Training can only take you so far in teaching it's time in the class figuring out what works for you that makes the difference.
In reply to TobyA:
My wife's the head of a prep school. She alternated between private and state for years, keeping her hand in in both, and then became a head (after a year as a deputy).
She disagrees significantly with Gove, who seems to think that teachers who don't know how to use an apostrophe can nevertheless teach Middlemarch. Sadly she had the microphone removed before that little discussion could really get going. There would, however, appear to be growing recognition that improving standards requires teachers who are themselves better educated, which is where it gets a touch difficult.
I would say be very careful about what you want and where you want it to go. Nothing would induce my wife back into the state sector now (famous last words, maybe). Furthermore, one of the reasons she became a head was that she was too expensive as a teacher in comparison to NQTs. Budgets seemed to have the upper hand over experience and ability. Consequently, if entering teaching later in life, perhaps think on what you might want in x years' time and how it all stacks up.
Effectively, she runs a small business, that's subject to external inspection (with one day's notice), with c.400 stakeholders, 200 direct 'clients', 40-odd staff and a >£2m turnover. Add to that, 16-20% of the customer base needs to be replaced every year.
She gets to deal with the police, social services, traffic wardens, employment tribunals and governors among many others. She's 'sales manager' for the school - if she doesn't get enough children in though the doors every term/year (and keeps them), the school will start to struggle. If the parents aren't happy, the word gets round really fast, but good news travels too.
Frankly, I don't know how she does it, but the school's full and there's a waiting list in every year group. It's certainly rewarding, but exhausting. She still teaches a bit too. On a daily basis, staff are the most trouble, followed by parents and then kids.
Finally, have a look at the TES and see what jobs there are that appeal and might suit.
My wife's the head of a prep school. She alternated between private and state for years, keeping her hand in in both, and then became a head (after a year as a deputy).
She disagrees significantly with Gove, who seems to think that teachers who don't know how to use an apostrophe can nevertheless teach Middlemarch. Sadly she had the microphone removed before that little discussion could really get going. There would, however, appear to be growing recognition that improving standards requires teachers who are themselves better educated, which is where it gets a touch difficult.
I would say be very careful about what you want and where you want it to go. Nothing would induce my wife back into the state sector now (famous last words, maybe). Furthermore, one of the reasons she became a head was that she was too expensive as a teacher in comparison to NQTs. Budgets seemed to have the upper hand over experience and ability. Consequently, if entering teaching later in life, perhaps think on what you might want in x years' time and how it all stacks up.
Effectively, she runs a small business, that's subject to external inspection (with one day's notice), with c.400 stakeholders, 200 direct 'clients', 40-odd staff and a >£2m turnover. Add to that, 16-20% of the customer base needs to be replaced every year.
She gets to deal with the police, social services, traffic wardens, employment tribunals and governors among many others. She's 'sales manager' for the school - if she doesn't get enough children in though the doors every term/year (and keeps them), the school will start to struggle. If the parents aren't happy, the word gets round really fast, but good news travels too.
Frankly, I don't know how she does it, but the school's full and there's a waiting list in every year group. It's certainly rewarding, but exhausting. She still teaches a bit too. On a daily basis, staff are the most trouble, followed by parents and then kids.
Finally, have a look at the TES and see what jobs there are that appeal and might suit.
In reply to TobyA:
i recently left teaching after 20 years. I loved the job but the crap that goes with it and the constant beating fro government lead me out. I am enjoying a new career in industry where i feel valued, i am well rewarded and only have3 weeks fewer hols. I arrive home with energy to spare and i am climbing loads.
it could be that a change will do you good too. I wouldn't recommend teaching though
i recently left teaching after 20 years. I loved the job but the crap that goes with it and the constant beating fro government lead me out. I am enjoying a new career in industry where i feel valued, i am well rewarded and only have3 weeks fewer hols. I arrive home with energy to spare and i am climbing loads.
it could be that a change will do you good too. I wouldn't recommend teaching though
In reply to TobyA:
Try this for some research on Teach First:
http://rebeccaallen.co.uk/2013/09/08/how-can-we-learn-if-teach-first-is-wor...
Try this for some research on Teach First:
http://rebeccaallen.co.uk/2013/09/08/how-can-we-learn-if-teach-first-is-wor...
In reply to TobyA:
Check that! You'd think so, but do check to be sure. I know they won't let me teach Physics in Bavaria on a PGCE - I'd have to do the Bavarian teaching qualification, despite there being a huge shortage. Ironically, I'm now teaching physics at a university here (both lectures and labs), which suits me fine!
The PGCE itself is a bucket load of work, as is the NQT year. Someone at your level of qualification won't be intellectually challenged by a PGCE, but the hours that it requires you to put in is huge. I imagine you have some experience of teaching given your current role, so you should have some idea of whether it's something you enjoy or not. It's not something to really start on a whim, but if it's something you enjoy then it's great.
As for ways in, the PGCE is the classic way in, but not the only way. There is (or at least was) the Graduate Teacher Programme for you to consider, where you get paid from the start, and work in a school from the start. I know someone who started out on a GTP, but then realised it was only a couple of essays different to the PGCE, so did the extra paperwork in his own time, and got the PGCE qualification, and his GTP pay check. Other options are private schools, which don't legally require you to have any qualifications, but many will support you working and working towards qualified teacher status alongside.
> (In reply to winhill) you don't get a PGCE, and I want that as it is the recognised teaching qualification within the EU. Then I could also possibly teach in Finland...
Check that! You'd think so, but do check to be sure. I know they won't let me teach Physics in Bavaria on a PGCE - I'd have to do the Bavarian teaching qualification, despite there being a huge shortage. Ironically, I'm now teaching physics at a university here (both lectures and labs), which suits me fine!
The PGCE itself is a bucket load of work, as is the NQT year. Someone at your level of qualification won't be intellectually challenged by a PGCE, but the hours that it requires you to put in is huge. I imagine you have some experience of teaching given your current role, so you should have some idea of whether it's something you enjoy or not. It's not something to really start on a whim, but if it's something you enjoy then it's great.
As for ways in, the PGCE is the classic way in, but not the only way. There is (or at least was) the Graduate Teacher Programme for you to consider, where you get paid from the start, and work in a school from the start. I know someone who started out on a GTP, but then realised it was only a couple of essays different to the PGCE, so did the extra paperwork in his own time, and got the PGCE qualification, and his GTP pay check. Other options are private schools, which don't legally require you to have any qualifications, but many will support you working and working towards qualified teacher status alongside.
In reply to Green Porridge:
The GTP has been replaced by School Direct. There are many similarities. SD has a salaried and non-salaried route, but with the latter you are eligible for bursaries esp if teaching a shortage subject.
I believe Teach First have changed their mission somewhat and now give you a PGCE.
The GTP has been replaced by School Direct. There are many similarities. SD has a salaried and non-salaried route, but with the latter you are eligible for bursaries esp if teaching a shortage subject.
I believe Teach First have changed their mission somewhat and now give you a PGCE.
In reply to climbwhenready:
Oh, also most SD routes give you a PGCE. Some don't. Check before applying
Oh, also most SD routes give you a PGCE. Some don't. Check before applying
In reply to TobyA:
With your qualifications Modern Studies would probably be the easiest option in Scotland. It's the closest thing to Politics commonly taught in Scottish schools. It's often grouped in a Faculty with History and Geography but in some schools and local authorities it's not considered to be as important. Citizenship is not a regular subject but some schools teach it discretely in a limited fashion. I don't know anyone with a qualification in it.
I have no experience of the English system but my impression is that in Scotland the curriculum is a bit more flexible and not so results driven. Head teachers also have less power over budgets and hiring and firing in Scotland. However, things are changing here too and whilst some of the changes are for the better some are not.
> (In reply to Father Noel Furlong) TBH I haven't looked into the Scottish system.
With your qualifications Modern Studies would probably be the easiest option in Scotland. It's the closest thing to Politics commonly taught in Scottish schools. It's often grouped in a Faculty with History and Geography but in some schools and local authorities it's not considered to be as important. Citizenship is not a regular subject but some schools teach it discretely in a limited fashion. I don't know anyone with a qualification in it.
I have no experience of the English system but my impression is that in Scotland the curriculum is a bit more flexible and not so results driven. Head teachers also have less power over budgets and hiring and firing in Scotland. However, things are changing here too and whilst some of the changes are for the better some are not.
In reply to TobyA:
think carefully about whether you want to go into school teaching with your level of academic qualifications. i have a degree in maths and i was briefly very idealistic about how i could use my enthusiasm for the subject to inspire others. there were some good moments but after going over basic percentage calculations with the same group of year 10s for the nth time in a term my enthusiasm waned. i lasted 2 years before i quit and did something else. and i have the utmost respect for people who stay in the state sector and put up with their careers being controlled by the whims of whoever is in government at the time
think carefully about whether you want to go into school teaching with your level of academic qualifications. i have a degree in maths and i was briefly very idealistic about how i could use my enthusiasm for the subject to inspire others. there were some good moments but after going over basic percentage calculations with the same group of year 10s for the nth time in a term my enthusiasm waned. i lasted 2 years before i quit and did something else. and i have the utmost respect for people who stay in the state sector and put up with their careers being controlled by the whims of whoever is in government at the time
In reply to Alex@home:
They're not the sort of qualifications that obviously qualify you for something though, so I'm not very precious about them. I do always use the Dr. title when booking flights though, I have a friend who reckons he got up-graded 1 flight in 3 when a Dr. and now 1 in 2 now he gets to use Prof. I suspect its more his frequent flyer status though because I'm yet to get the magic call to gate desk!
Thanks all for your thoughts; still mulling it over and I hadn't really thought about looking at Scotland. I wondered how my family would deal with accents as immigrants but my missus now seems quite keen on Glasgow!
> think carefully about whether you want to go into school teaching with your level of academic qualifications.
They're not the sort of qualifications that obviously qualify you for something though, so I'm not very precious about them. I do always use the Dr. title when booking flights though, I have a friend who reckons he got up-graded 1 flight in 3 when a Dr. and now 1 in 2 now he gets to use Prof. I suspect its more his frequent flyer status though because I'm yet to get the magic call to gate desk!
Thanks all for your thoughts; still mulling it over and I hadn't really thought about looking at Scotland. I wondered how my family would deal with accents as immigrants but my missus now seems quite keen on Glasgow!
In reply to Coel Hellier:
No, I couldn't. I could give you an account, but not a brief one!
> (In reply to PeakDJ)
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> Could you give us a brief account of what you see as the big problems?
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> Could you give us a brief account of what you see as the big problems?
No, I couldn't. I could give you an account, but not a brief one!
In reply to TobyA:
I got a bursary, but at the time I did the PGCE it barely covered the tuition fees. I got a free qualification, but had to live for a year while I did it on savings. My wife did a PGCE at the same time. We are used to living fairly cheaply, so wasn't an issue.
Re the citizenship/social sciences stuff one of the schools I worked at had an interesting initiative for younger students (KS3). They basically taught a course called "world studies" where students got integrated citizenship, humanities and science. Maybe not what you are after, but I thought it was a great idea. I think schools tend to pay lip service to the citizenship stuff once kids get to exam age, as then the focus really shifts to making sure the numbers are good. Somehow the focus on turning out balanced, aware citizens seems to disappear in favour of 5 A*-C (or equivalent!) grades and a nice big banner advertising the pass rate outside the school gates. Sounds cynical I know, but it is true (sadly!)
Social sciences - aim for post 16 economics or something. I reckon that would be REALLY interesting.
Good luck, whatever you decide. It'll put you out of your comfort one and be a challenge if you go for it. That's one of the things I love about it.
> (In reply to PeakDJ) Thanks! I guess being one of the 'chosen breed' who want to (and can! teach maths and physics, you were able to get a bursary for your PGCE? The cost is not an insignificant factor for subject areas where the govt. aren't trying as hard to attract people.
I got a bursary, but at the time I did the PGCE it barely covered the tuition fees. I got a free qualification, but had to live for a year while I did it on savings. My wife did a PGCE at the same time. We are used to living fairly cheaply, so wasn't an issue.
Re the citizenship/social sciences stuff one of the schools I worked at had an interesting initiative for younger students (KS3). They basically taught a course called "world studies" where students got integrated citizenship, humanities and science. Maybe not what you are after, but I thought it was a great idea. I think schools tend to pay lip service to the citizenship stuff once kids get to exam age, as then the focus really shifts to making sure the numbers are good. Somehow the focus on turning out balanced, aware citizens seems to disappear in favour of 5 A*-C (or equivalent!) grades and a nice big banner advertising the pass rate outside the school gates. Sounds cynical I know, but it is true (sadly!)
Social sciences - aim for post 16 economics or something. I reckon that would be REALLY interesting.
Good luck, whatever you decide. It'll put you out of your comfort one and be a challenge if you go for it. That's one of the things I love about it.
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