This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
I have spent the last fifteen years looking like a cross between a canary and a traffic warden on my bike all winter long but now I'm hearing that light colours on their own don't make cyclists any more visible in the dark / when at a distance from car headlamps, compared to darker clothes. I am becoming more aware of the importance of reflectors; but only when they can bounce the light back to its source, not at an oblique angle - so reflectors on the ankles, knees, jacket, frame, spokes whatever, are more effective. That and the bike's own lights of course.
Opinions anyone?
Opinions anyone?
In reply to silhouette:
As a car driver (and cyclist) in Cambridge I can say that's obviously not true. In general urban / suburban lighting a light top is much easier to see than a black one (but not as effective as reflective stripes, as you say).
As a car driver (and cyclist) in Cambridge I can say that's obviously not true. In general urban / suburban lighting a light top is much easier to see than a black one (but not as effective as reflective stripes, as you say).
In reply to silhouette:
What research is that? Would have thought normal light clothing would give some gains although obviously not as much as a proper florescent/reflective jacket.
What research is that? Would have thought normal light clothing would give some gains although obviously not as much as a proper florescent/reflective jacket.
In reply to silhouette: I have always been a bit monochrome(with reflective flashes) in my choice of clothing but have have been doing more commuting in heavy traffic and nighttime post work milage, I have put reflective strips on the (commuting/winter hack)frame for the oblique reflection and I have always used good lights 2 up front and two on the back and a dayglo reflective rucksack cover. The bright colours dont make much difference at dusk/nightime (this from observing other cyclist so my opinion only) effective lights and good allround reflective material does seem to make a difference.
good lights and clothing with reflective strips. no harm in wearing bright clothes but I'm keener to have good lights and reflective clothes.
In reply to silhouette:
My experience is good drivers will always notice you as if I dress like a Ninja they will kindly point out I should try and be more visible. Bad drivers, well, equally I've been reflected on up and lit like a Christmas tree and people have nearly run me down.
I do often wonder if that super shiny stuff is very expensive as there is never enough IMO on the cycling stuff in the shops.
Finally does not (very) black draw they eye so that around town it is actually quite noticeable?
Cheers
Toby
My experience is good drivers will always notice you as if I dress like a Ninja they will kindly point out I should try and be more visible. Bad drivers, well, equally I've been reflected on up and lit like a Christmas tree and people have nearly run me down.
I do often wonder if that super shiny stuff is very expensive as there is never enough IMO on the cycling stuff in the shops.
Finally does not (very) black draw they eye so that around town it is actually quite noticeable?
Cheers
Toby
In reply to Toby_W: Thanks so far guys.
In reply to silhouette:
I work as a delivery driver in the evenings and see plenty of cyclists presumably commuting from work. From my own observations reflective strips are good, especially on moving parts like strips on ankles.
IMO junctions are the most hazardous. Hard to spot if you're pulling out when the traffic finally thins enough for you to quickly get out. Mainly because there are no lights illuminating the cyclist apart from behind.
I find that flashing lights are the best as it distinguishes you from garden lights and stationary or slow moving traffic.
I work as a delivery driver in the evenings and see plenty of cyclists presumably commuting from work. From my own observations reflective strips are good, especially on moving parts like strips on ankles.
IMO junctions are the most hazardous. Hard to spot if you're pulling out when the traffic finally thins enough for you to quickly get out. Mainly because there are no lights illuminating the cyclist apart from behind.
I find that flashing lights are the best as it distinguishes you from garden lights and stationary or slow moving traffic.
In reply to Toby_W:
It is certainly easier to see someone with reflective patches. I generally do see the idiots in black clothes with no lights before running them down, but even a small reflective patch is obvious from miles away.
You can buy big retro reflective patches for about a quid each from Amazon, and a roll of tape for about a fiver so I guess that the lack of reflective patches has more to do with fashion than cost.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Solas-Grade-Retro-Reflective-Tape-8pc/dp/B006MQMA3Q...
and
http://www.amazon.co.uk/EasyTime-Reflective-Safety-strips-safety/dp/B009Y3C...
It is certainly easier to see someone with reflective patches. I generally do see the idiots in black clothes with no lights before running them down, but even a small reflective patch is obvious from miles away.
You can buy big retro reflective patches for about a quid each from Amazon, and a roll of tape for about a fiver so I guess that the lack of reflective patches has more to do with fashion than cost.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Solas-Grade-Retro-Reflective-Tape-8pc/dp/B006MQMA3Q...
and
http://www.amazon.co.uk/EasyTime-Reflective-Safety-strips-safety/dp/B009Y3C...
In reply to GrahamD:
Plus 1
On the last two nights alone I have only just seen 1 pedestrian and 2 cyclists in the road without either lights or light clothing. All were wearing dark clothing and one of the cyclists a hoody, even further reducing the chances of seeing them.
My neighbour hit and killed a man walking beside the road who was wearing dark clothing. He just didn't see him against the oncoming headlights. A terrible shock to him which he has never really got over. The coroner absolved him of all blame and recorded that the fact the pedestrian was wearing dark clothing with no reflectors or light was a major contributory factor to the accident.
Plus 1
On the last two nights alone I have only just seen 1 pedestrian and 2 cyclists in the road without either lights or light clothing. All were wearing dark clothing and one of the cyclists a hoody, even further reducing the chances of seeing them.
My neighbour hit and killed a man walking beside the road who was wearing dark clothing. He just didn't see him against the oncoming headlights. A terrible shock to him which he has never really got over. The coroner absolved him of all blame and recorded that the fact the pedestrian was wearing dark clothing with no reflectors or light was a major contributory factor to the accident.
In reply to silhouette: I kind of agree. If the cyclist is between the observer and oncoming traffic with its bright lights and especially if the road is wet, they are more or less invisible regardless of clothing. Only active lights and reflectors help distinguish them from the general gloom.
In reply to ByEek:
I'm a reflective, flashing Xmas tree, with black/fluo yellow/reflective contrast. People can see that I look like a complete t**t.
I choose my words with care.
I'm a reflective, flashing Xmas tree, with black/fluo yellow/reflective contrast. People can see that I look like a complete t**t.
I choose my words with care.
In reply to dissonance:
Fluorescent clothing only gives benefit (over other light colours) when there's more UV than visible light (since fluorescent materials convert the UV to visible, thus making you apparently brighter than you would be with other light-coloured clothing.
I'd suggest that, at dusk, fluorescent clothing is more effective than feeble bike lights. Monster LED lights are probably better, especially flashing lights.
> florescent
Fluorescent clothing only gives benefit (over other light colours) when there's more UV than visible light (since fluorescent materials convert the UV to visible, thus making you apparently brighter than you would be with other light-coloured clothing.
I'd suggest that, at dusk, fluorescent clothing is more effective than feeble bike lights. Monster LED lights are probably better, especially flashing lights.
In reply to captain paranoia:
Oh, and, yes, the likes of Scotchlite reflective strips are good, because you're using the power of the oncoming vehicle's lights.
Oh, and, yes, the likes of Scotchlite reflective strips are good, because you're using the power of the oncoming vehicle's lights.
In reply to dissonance:
I've seen some photographs that suggest that light clothing gives no advantage at night, my own experiences would tend to support that. Reflective strips / patches make a world of difference.
I've seen some photographs that suggest that light clothing gives no advantage at night, my own experiences would tend to support that. Reflective strips / patches make a world of difference.
In reply to The New NickB:
Its all dependent on the exact level of ambient light, whether its misty, etc etc etc etc. Why, as cyclists, don't people try to make themselves as visible as possible in all scenarios ? its not an either or choice, you can have lights AND reflective stripes AND light clothing.
> I've seen some photographs that suggest that light clothing gives no advantage at night, my own experiences would tend to support that. Reflective strips / patches make a world of difference.
Its all dependent on the exact level of ambient light, whether its misty, etc etc etc etc. Why, as cyclists, don't people try to make themselves as visible as possible in all scenarios ? its not an either or choice, you can have lights AND reflective stripes AND light clothing.
In reply to silhouette: In pitch-black conditions reflective is best, followed by white. At dusk when visible light is decreasing but ultra-violet is still present to make fluorescent things glow then fluoro colours are best. Years of looking at fishing floats tells me that fluoro red is easiest to see out of yellow, red and pink. The problem is that drivers are used to seeing fluoro yellow.
In terms of lights, really bright flashing front LEDs make drivers think there's a police car in the vicinity and cause them to behave unusually, and in general flashing lights make it harder to tell what the cycle is doing in terms of direction changes. So stick to constant lights, or combine a flasher with a constant one. A really bright headtorch is useful to shine at car drivers who don't dip their lights.
In terms of lights, really bright flashing front LEDs make drivers think there's a police car in the vicinity and cause them to behave unusually, and in general flashing lights make it harder to tell what the cycle is doing in terms of direction changes. So stick to constant lights, or combine a flasher with a constant one. A really bright headtorch is useful to shine at car drivers who don't dip their lights.
In reply to Trangia:
I think car manufacturers should be reducing the power of headlights for exactly this reason. In urban settings you only really need lights to be seen, not to see others. Modern lights are so bright everything else simply becomes black.
> My neighbour hit and killed a man walking beside the road who was wearing dark clothing. He just didn't see him against the oncoming headlights.
I think car manufacturers should be reducing the power of headlights for exactly this reason. In urban settings you only really need lights to be seen, not to see others. Modern lights are so bright everything else simply becomes black.
In reply to GrahamD:
It isn't either or, but colour makes no difference. Cycling or running, I where reflectives and I am lit.
It isn't either or, but colour makes no difference. Cycling or running, I where reflectives and I am lit.
In reply to Toerag:
+1
I can't understand car manufacturers' obsession with producing lights that seem designed to blind oncoming traffic.
Anyway, back on thread. Lights and reflective patches are the best in the dark, a mix of fluoro and dark clothing to give contrast in low light. Dressing all in fluoro yellow can make you merge in with grit bins, yellow vans and road signs.
> (In reply to Trangia)
> [...]
>
> I think car manufacturers should be reducing the power of headlights for exactly this reason. In urban settings you only really need lights to be seen, not to see others. Modern lights are so bright everything else simply becomes black.
> [...]
>
> I think car manufacturers should be reducing the power of headlights for exactly this reason. In urban settings you only really need lights to be seen, not to see others. Modern lights are so bright everything else simply becomes black.
+1
I can't understand car manufacturers' obsession with producing lights that seem designed to blind oncoming traffic.
Anyway, back on thread. Lights and reflective patches are the best in the dark, a mix of fluoro and dark clothing to give contrast in low light. Dressing all in fluoro yellow can make you merge in with grit bins, yellow vans and road signs.
In reply to silhouette:
It doesn't make any dfference; you could be lit up light a Christmas tree and along will come a driver with bad eyesight who won't admit they need glasses, a texting driver or one with a windscreen obscured by moisture or plasticiser film and they will not see you against the background clutter of lights.
It doesn't make any dfference; you could be lit up light a Christmas tree and along will come a driver with bad eyesight who won't admit they need glasses, a texting driver or one with a windscreen obscured by moisture or plasticiser film and they will not see you against the background clutter of lights.
In reply to Toerag:
agree with most of what you said apart from this bit
a bright head torch is useful offroad, but i'm pretty sure they are illegal on the road.
from memory the reasoning is that everytime you look over your shoulder before you pull out you are going to point that beam at the driver behind you. if you blind them they might hit you by accident
> A really bright headtorch is useful to shine at car drivers who don't dip their lights.
agree with most of what you said apart from this bit
a bright head torch is useful offroad, but i'm pretty sure they are illegal on the road.
from memory the reasoning is that everytime you look over your shoulder before you pull out you are going to point that beam at the driver behind you. if you blind them they might hit you by accident
In reply to Ridge:
Highly reflective stuff works well
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?fbid=10150772025718362&se...
Highly reflective stuff works well
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?fbid=10150772025718362&se...
In reply to Ridge:
"I can't understand car manufacturers' obsession with producing lights that seem designed to blind oncoming traffic."
Nor why some cyclists like to do this with their super-bright front lights. It's downright dangerous. When you see another person, be they in a car, on a bike or walking, dim or dip it, like if you were driving a car. If you can't dim or dip it, buy one you can or leave it permanently slightly dipped.
Neil
"I can't understand car manufacturers' obsession with producing lights that seem designed to blind oncoming traffic."
Nor why some cyclists like to do this with their super-bright front lights. It's downright dangerous. When you see another person, be they in a car, on a bike or walking, dim or dip it, like if you were driving a car. If you can't dim or dip it, buy one you can or leave it permanently slightly dipped.
Neil
In reply to rallymania:
That would make you an owl.
> (In reply to Toerag)
> [...]
>
> from memory the reasoning is that everytime you look over your shoulder before you pull out you are going to point that beam at the driver behind you.
> [...]
>
> from memory the reasoning is that everytime you look over your shoulder before you pull out you are going to point that beam at the driver behind you.
That would make you an owl.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
That's not really a good argument. Because a minority of drivers are crap I may as well dress as a ninja and dramatically increase my chances of being hit by everybody else?
> (In reply to silhouette)
>
> It doesn't make any dfference; you could be lit up light a Christmas tree and along will come a driver with bad eyesight who won't admit they need glasses, a texting driver or one with a windscreen obscured by moisture or plasticiser film and they will not see you against the background clutter of lights.
>
> It doesn't make any dfference; you could be lit up light a Christmas tree and along will come a driver with bad eyesight who won't admit they need glasses, a texting driver or one with a windscreen obscured by moisture or plasticiser film and they will not see you against the background clutter of lights.
That's not really a good argument. Because a minority of drivers are crap I may as well dress as a ninja and dramatically increase my chances of being hit by everybody else?
In reply to silhouette:
Don't mix light colours with flouro and neither with reflective. Nothing beats the latter at night, assuming there are lights about. If no light then pale clothing is better.
white stands out better than flouro in some lights.
3 choices, best will be a mix.
Don't mix light colours with flouro and neither with reflective. Nothing beats the latter at night, assuming there are lights about. If no light then pale clothing is better.
white stands out better than flouro in some lights.
3 choices, best will be a mix.
In reply to mattsccm:
It isn't enough for there to be light about, the lights have to be close to the observer. Retro-reflective material works by reflecting light back in the direction it came from.
If the lights in question are the headlights of a car, that's great for making a person more visible to the driver of that car. It does nothing for anyone looking from a different angle. Under streetlights, reflective material would only make you more visible to a bird sitting on a streetlight.
What's wrong with mixing retro-reflective material with light and/or fluorescent coloured material?
> Don't mix light colours with flouro and neither with reflective. Nothing beats the latter at night, assuming there are lights about.
It isn't enough for there to be light about, the lights have to be close to the observer. Retro-reflective material works by reflecting light back in the direction it came from.
If the lights in question are the headlights of a car, that's great for making a person more visible to the driver of that car. It does nothing for anyone looking from a different angle. Under streetlights, reflective material would only make you more visible to a bird sitting on a streetlight.
What's wrong with mixing retro-reflective material with light and/or fluorescent coloured material?
In reply to deepsoup:
I think there might be an "up" missing (as in "don't mix them up").
> (In reply to mattsccm)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
>
> What's wrong with mixing retro-reflective material with light and/or fluorescent coloured material?
> What's wrong with mixing retro-reflective material with light and/or fluorescent coloured material?
I think there might be an "up" missing (as in "don't mix them up").
In reply to andy:
Ah. I see you're probably right. That'd make more sense, ta.
Ah. I see you're probably right. That'd make more sense, ta.
In reply to silhouette:
There is research in sailing that contrast works better than colour, which is why all the rock star Musto kit is now black with lots of 3M flashes.
It seems a lot of the newer bike kit is black with lots of Scotchlite, which flashes up brighter than if lost on coloured kit.
there is also an argument that flouro kit can get lost in background clutter. I see the argument for the former in dark road situations, but I still think the bright piece of kit works in general town traffic. It also means if you get splatted the opposing silk has less to attack you about and play the victim blaming game.
There is research in sailing that contrast works better than colour, which is why all the rock star Musto kit is now black with lots of 3M flashes.
It seems a lot of the newer bike kit is black with lots of Scotchlite, which flashes up brighter than if lost on coloured kit.
there is also an argument that flouro kit can get lost in background clutter. I see the argument for the former in dark road situations, but I still think the bright piece of kit works in general town traffic. It also means if you get splatted the opposing silk has less to attack you about and play the victim blaming game.
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...