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Compact camera with RAW and Wide-Angle

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 tnj 19 Nov 2013
Hi,

I'm looking to upgrade my "route" camera. Currently I have an IXUS 100 but I am constantly disappointed (but not surprised!) by the average results I get from it compared to my DSLR.

So I want my new "pimped" route camera to have: RAW, wide-angle, Good ISO, Manual control and HD video. As well as being compact.

At the moment the Canon S100 or S110 seems to tick the most boxes. How do people rate these cameras? Any other recommendations? £250 would the absolute top of my budget.

Any advice appreciated!!

Tom

 frqnt 19 Nov 2013
In reply to tnj:
S100 is great (similarly the S95 and S110). The S100 fulfils your WA req. shoots RAW and offers full manual control. The apertureesqe ring is quite handy for control with gloves on. Only other contender is the Panasonic LX range IMO but the Canon is more svelte. I use an S100 when I can't carry my SLR/dSLR.
 Damo 19 Nov 2013
In reply to tnj:

I've been using the S100 for over a year. It's good, but battery life is not, so you'll need a couple of spares if your routes are winter ones. I find it *just* OK to hold and use with gloves. I've started to become annoyed with the lag on the S100, between shots, it's a bit much, and in some situations it focus-hunts more than I would have expected (having owned several decent p&s cams over the years).

The Sony RX100 definitely gives great images but seems harder to hold and is significantly more expensive.
Roadie_in_denial 19 Nov 2013
In reply to tnj:

I just had a quick look on Gumtree, there's a couple of Canon G10s advertised there. If I were you I'd buy one of these for around £150 without hesitation. I spent £400 on mine, dropped it in a river in a war-torn part of the world, dried it out and carried on using it. I ended up giving it to my Mum a few months back and it' still going strong.

I know that this is based on 'a sample of one' and all that but still...I really rate the G series of cameras...so much so that I'm using a G12 just now (hence the giving away of the earlier model).
 Adam Lincoln 19 Nov 2013
In reply to tnj:

Fujifilm x10. Hands down winner for me.
 Richard Carter 20 Nov 2013
In reply to tnj:

I used to have a Canon s95 and the LX7 (which I use now) is quite a bit better. 24mm (equiv.) lens, f/1.4. The Canon lens is longer, but much slower - especially as soon as your zoom in from 24mm. The LX7 isn't really that much bigger and has more controls. I choose the LX7 because I'd had a few S cameras and they'd all met their demise from being dropped - the LX7 has a bigger grip section :-P
 DJayB 20 Nov 2013
In reply to Richard Carter: Are you saying that if you could hold a canon you would still buying them and LX7 is a compromise, albeit one that takes good images?
 Richard Carter 20 Nov 2013
In reply to dj_brigham05:

No, sorry for any confusion. The S series has served me well but it was the fact I broke 3 that made me try something new. To be fair to Canon, I break a lot of camera stuff - I managed to send in the first Nikon D3 for repairs according to the guy at the Nikon service centre - a couple of days after launch :-P

I'd previously never even really considered Panasonic but I tried out the LX7 in the shop and it seemed good so I bought it, haven't looked back since. It is slightly larger which is one thing. But it has a lot more controls on it, the video modes are great, the lens is super fast, very quick to focus, just good all round.
In reply to tnj: Another vote for a used Canon G11 or 12 - I got a mint G11 for £250 a couple of years ago - brilliant results.
 Damo 20 Nov 2013
In reply to Richard Carter:
> (In reply to dj_brigham05)
>
> the LX7 ... It is slightly larger which is one thing. But it has a lot more controls on it, the video modes are great, the lens is super fast, very quick to focus, just good all round.

Yes but it also requires a 2nd hand to remove the lens cap, which was a showstopper for me as a *climbing* camera, as I often shoot one-handed. I know you can get an aftermarket folding cover thing, but it looked a bit clunky to me.

Breaking three Canon S cams? :-o
 Richard Carter 21 Nov 2013
In reply to Damo:

I'm good at breaking stuff, I tend to be quite clumsy. The body of the S range is well made, but the lens barrel is damaged quite easily when you drop it :-P
 Colin Wells 21 Nov 2013
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:
G10 onwards are indeed fabulous cameras - and tough.

I have used a G10 continually for work and play for over four years, have taken thousands of pictures, dropped it onto a slate kitchen floor and smashed the LCD viewfinder to pieces - repaired myself easily with a cheap spare part after watching a 'how-to' video on a well-known video hosting site - and it's just carried on firing without missing a beat. It's easily been the most durable digital camera I've owned. I think it's a superb piece of kit.

There is a potential massive drawback however. The lens curtains are engineered to a very fine tolerance- they almost touch the lens. This means that if a bit of tiny grit gets trapped behind the lens curtain - result is an irrevocably scratched lens. This is a real issue when using it for climbing as stuff will probably get caught in there at some point.

To begin with the scratches aren't a major problem - they tend to show up only on the LCD rather than the image - but as time goes on more and more scratches build up to the extent that it affects image quality and, sadly, it's finally necessary to retire the camera.

A shame, as everything else is still working brilliantly.

This isn't a rare problem in the G-series (see, for example: http://bit.ly/Iit5S0) - but I haven't heard much about the problem since the G12 iteration so the latest models may have finally cracked the problem.

As a climbing camera, the G-series are still relatively large and heavy - the Canon S-series are probably the bees knees for this role, being easily tucked down a shirt or in a pocket. Nevertheless, the earlier ones (S-90/95/100) are pretty slippery - I'd say they really need a custom mount added (such as those from Richard Franiac which can't be recommended enough) - unless you have skin the trexture of glasspaper.

From an action perspective, it's also worth bearing in mind that up to the S110, there is quite a lag between shots - so getting a climbing decisive moment is tricky. (I understand S110 onwards that shot-shot time have improved, altho' I haven't been able to check this myself).

SO, the point of all this info is: if you were thinking of buying second hand G- or S- series with climbing in mind, I'd steer clear of the earlier models, bite the bullet and go for the more recent models.

OP tnj 21 Nov 2013
Thanks for all the replies they have been really useful.

At the moment I am deciding between the S100/110 and the LX7- I know the G series are great cameras but I want a genuine compact I can put in a smallish pocket and be ready for instant use. In this regard the S100 seems to win.

Choices Choices...
 GDes 21 Nov 2013
In reply to tnj: ive had a canon s90 for a few years, and I think it's super. Possibly the perfect camera for the climbing photography enthusioast. Plenty of manual control, very wide lens, superb image quality, and very small. I've recently bought an SLR but I never seem to use it as the s90 does the job. I've not tried a s100 but I assume they are pretty similar
 Damo 21 Nov 2013
In reply to Colin Wells:
> (In reply to keith-ratcliffe)
> G10 onwards are indeed fabulous cameras - and tough.
>
>
> As a climbing camera, the G-series are still relatively large and heavy - the Canon S-series are probably the bees knees for this role, being easily tucked down a shirt or in a pocket. Nevertheless, the earlier ones (S-90/95/100) are pretty slippery - I'd say they really need a custom mount added (such as those from Richard Franiac which can't be recommended enough) - unless you have skin the trexture of glasspaper.
>
> From an action perspective, it's also worth bearing in mind that up to the S110, there is quite a lag between shots - so getting a climbing decisive moment is tricky. (I understand S110 onwards that shot-shot time have improved, altho' I haven't been able to check this myself).
>

That's interesting about the G lens cover, Colin. I agree the G series are just a bit too big to put in a pocket and are not the most compact of compacts. OTOH they have a viewfinder, whereas the others don't, and I've changed my mind a bit on that, as I used not care, but would now prefer a viewfinder if I can. Note also the G15 are slimmed down from the G12 as the LCD no longer swivels out, so the G15 is a bit more compact than previous models.

I worried about the slipperiness of the S100 but from that model on it has a textured surface and is not as slippery as the S90/95. It also has a small rib on the front, so in the end I did not get a Franiec grip and it has been fine so far. If the S110 has improved lag time then that would be a major boost as a climbing camera.
 DJayB 22 Nov 2013
In reply to tnj:

Ive been thinking about the S110 for a while.
In reply to Colin Wells: Interested in your comment about the screen repair. I have just put my G11 in for a new screen (Hinge forced and broken) and it will cost me about £100. Thought I might get away with just hinge but not possible. Not confident enough to try and replace it myself - perhaps i should have tried.

moffatross 25 Nov 2013
In reply to dj_brigham05:

> Ive been thinking about the S110 for a while. <

Got one. It's a really good camera although I thought I would have to bin it a couple of weeks ago after a day in Glencoe due to a load of dust particles somehow depositing themselves on its sensor ... disappointing for a compact (my Panasonic LX2 had taken thousands of photos over 6-7 years and always been happy in a damp jacket pocket without getting contaminated).

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2394097#2394097

I ended up salvaging the S110 with the home vacuum cleaner's tube over the lens on full suck (while the camera was powered off and closed). It took three or four goes to get it all off but the images are now clear at its smallest aperture, f/8.
 Jimbo C 25 Nov 2013
In reply to tnj:

I was looking for a similar thing in early 2012 and got an Olympus XZ-1. I think there is a newer model now, but anyhow it has RAW, HD, etc. F1.8 at 24mm, F2.5 at 120mm. Slightly larger than average sensor means pretty low noise for a compact. Downside is that the JPEGs are not great, slight colour cast and too much noise reduction, but that doesn't matter since I always shoot in RAW + JPEG. The lens is really good - sharp edge to edge.

I was also considering the Canon S100, but the lens on the Olympus tipped it for me.
Phil Payne 25 Nov 2013
In reply to tnj:

Sony RX100 currently on Amazon for £292. Sounds like a great deal to me.
 Dr.S at work 25 Nov 2013
In reply to Jimbo C:

yeah, I have an XZ-1 as well and its a good camera - the current model XZ-2 , allows you to focus with the lens ring rather than the poxy dial on the back, much better.

alas no viewfinder though.

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