UKC

Evening all,
hope you have all had a pleasant mid week day.

I've been reading a few things about the Greenpeace action on the oilrig in the Arctic and I'm getting a wee bit fed up of how people are trying to make them into martyrs.

I seem to have lost the article from Greenpeace stating what they intended to do (it is on the Greenpeace UK FB page somewhere) but it went along the lines of they were going to try and board the oilrig and then see what happens.

Now I'm all for people doing whatever they want to do, good on them if they support a cause enough, then crack on and support it however, the constant bleating from them about being detained illegally etc is getting on my tits.

They seem to be in denial that they intended to do something illegal in Russian waters and they seem to have been completely oblivious to the fact that there would be swift action which right or wrong, was going to happen and happen immediately. I don't agree with what the Russians get up to but, they must have known there would be consequences for their actions.

Now what really grips me, is now they have been stuck in jail they expect everyone to help them, there is a big media campaign from Greenpeace to get them out and its all woe is me. Why can't people take responsibility for their actions, man up and take whats coming to them for breaking the law or having an agenda to break the law?

Rant over!

In reply to Denni: I agree. sick of it. they knew what they were doing could have ended in being arrested or worse. I dislike Greenpeace's way of 'doing business'.

In reply to Denni:

Does that include Nelson Mandela?

Theyre not Criminals. Theyre political Prisoners.

In reply to Choss: They're heroic, or stupid or both.

In reply to Denni: A little aside, but has anyone else fell a little bit in love with Nadia from Pussy Riot? Now there's a feminist heroine, not that bleating bint from the Bake-off. Hijack over.

In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Nah. Besides, she Knew what she was doing and deserves everything she gets. The law is the law.

In reply to Choss:

Not in Russia it isn't

In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Who? I think you'll find that, by moving prisons, Nadya has gone and no longer exists. http://consequenceofsound.net/2013/11/pussy-riots-nadya-tolokonnikova-goes-...

In reply to Submit to Gravity:

I was being sarky with reference to OP

Ps Nadia is Gorgeous, and then some.

In reply to TryfAndy:

Anyone who knows their rhizomes is good in my book:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/nov/15/pussy-riot-nadezhda-tolokonnik...

In reply to Denni:

My view is a very good cause, followed by months of campaigning and negotiations with governments etc, followed by the russian oil company getting what they want anyway.

They think its wrong.
They attempt to stop it using legal and illegal means without killing/harming anyone. Fair play to them. They have my respect up to this point.

They get arrested, a hazard of the job, and claim its illegal, which its not. Claim they aren't criminals, which they are. Claim they just wanted to board it in protest, which they didn't, the initial aim was to disable the rig from working.

I have the utmost respect for people willing to fight their cause (whether I agree with it or not) but the backtracking thats happening now is just unreal!

Sea Shepherd are even worse, and guess where they learnt how to spin publicity...

In reply to Denni:

Thing is, the people in jail have accepted the consequence of their actions - Whether you agree with them or not, they had the backbone to get out there and do something about what they believed in. I'm sure they were aware the repercussions could be severe.

In reply to Denni: ok, I'm a fairly hardcore committed environmentalist, but even I've been losing patience with greenpeace over the past few years. PR/ fundraising bait without any constructive solutions.

BUT

I really felt for Alex (on the basis of the press coverage).She's in way over her head and I suspect she never anticipated the full Russian prison experience. She's scared and feels abandoned (my guess) Maybe this was incredible naivety on her part, and maybe it was a gross underestimating of the risks by her "employer". I suspect both.

In reply to csw:


No, they haven't. This is why they're peddling wanting to get out and tweeting about how prison is nasty.

In reply to toad:


I don't think it was the underestimation of the hierachy, they knew exactly what would happen and I agree with you about Alex, naivety at the highest level on her part and now being used as a poster campaign.

In reply to dutybooty:

Thats it in a nutshell.

Now as for the Sea Shepherd.......

youtube.com/watch?v=LS1YexdmDqc&

Paul Waton, lying manipulative greedy man and his classic line:

"There's nothing wrong with being a terrorist, as long as you win. Then you write the history"

In reply to Denni: Bit surprised with the comments above, I have to admit. From what little I know of the story, I had quite a lot of sympathy for the 30 in that the charges seemed to be far too severe for the actual offence.

In reply to Denni: a minor trespass action is one thing, and I'm sure all of the activists involved accepted that risk. A potential seven years prison sentence? wildly disproportionate and draconian.

In reply to wynaptomos:

The oilrig has a 500 metre safety zone which can be enforced by the state that owns the oilrig. If it is in the Russian economic zone, which it is, they have commited a crime of grave nature:

"An attempt to unlawfully seize or exercise control over a fixed platform by force, threat or means of intimidation is an offence under the Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Fixed Platforms Located on the Continental Shelf 1988.

These are deemed to be offences of a “grave nature” punishable by “appropriate penalties” under the parent treaty, the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation 1988.

In reply to pebbles:

It's Russia for God's sake. What did they expect, a cup of tea and a Christmas card??
The senior folk at Greenpeace should be ashamed for exploiting naive youngsters and putting them at risk.

In reply to pebbles: There are several procedures on a mobile Drilling Rigs that once started can't just be stopped at the drop of a hat. Some of these could compromise the safety of the entire vessel and its crew.
The whole "Arctic Drilling" bandwagon is very photogenic and marketable, if Greenpeace really gave a toss about the lack of regulation and destruction of the environment then they should be doing this off the Coast of West Africa.... Except they would have some stiff competition in the boarding Vessels and Rigs stakes.

In reply to Denni: Just out of curiosity, have Greenpeace ever actually achieved anything other than making headlines following sometimes impressive PR stunts?

In reply to muppetfilter:

Possibly they should outsource? I'm pretty sure a lot of Somali pirates turned to piracy following the illegal dumping of waste and illegal fishing destroying their coastine. So they've got the motivation, they've got the guns...all they're lacking is good direction

In reply to ByEek:

Quite a lot.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/about/victories/

In reply to Denni:

Putting this into context - We were drilling off the Lofoten 20 years ago and Greenpeace boarded us. Usual banners with Rainbow Warrior circling us filming. We kept drilling and the Danish lad who had climbed onto the leg eventually got cold and came up at the behest of a Norwegian police officer, Medic checked him out and he was given a bacon sarnie and a cuppa, arrested by the Norwegian police, put in a survival suit and taken to Bodo police station, cautioned and then released. Greenpeace made their point, no one got locked up, and the world kept turning. Sometimes it's best and easiest to just let things slide - the Norwegians and the oil oil company sensible people that they are understand this - the Russians seem to want to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut .... I know which country is the better and more prosperous - and I think the Russians should have learned from the Norwegians.

In reply to muppetfilter:


On the whole that statement is Bollocks - someone coming onto the vessel will not stop any operation.

In reply to cander: Good post.

In reply to cander:

A sensible and proportionate response, but never likely to happen in Russia, and they should have known that.

In reply to cander: Balasting, Anchor handling, Crane work , Pipe Handling

In reply to muppetfilter:

Rigs ballast with people on them all the time, cranes operate with vessels close in all the time (thats what they are meant to do), Pipe handling ... are you kidding - routine operation. Anchor Handling ... only at the start and finish - Muppet go filter yourself - utter rubbish.

In reply to cander: All the operations i mentioned kill experienced hands , how safe are a bunch of adrenaline hyped activists with no working knowledge of a rig ?

In reply to muppetfilter:

I think he's had an accident...

In reply to Denni:








Its the lying and backtracking that I can't abide. The terrorism quote is a stange thing.

A few hundred years ago, if the earl down the road had a nicer carpet than you, you gathered your army of peasants, raided his village, raped his women, took the carpet and burnt the place to the ground. This was normal.

Fast forward to 20th Century, we had Irish lads and British lads. Same lads, same personalities, born in one place and grow up to be a member of the IRA, born in another and join the British military. Both viewed each other as doing something wrong (no labels from me)

Fast forward 21st Century, middle eastern lads are growing up to hate the west for terrorising their country, the lads from the west are growing up to hate the terrorists from the middle east!

History is written by the victor and propaganda is one of the most powerful tools out there. Paul Watson knows how to use this to his advantage, but unfortunately for him, most people can see through his BS.

DISCLAIMER: I support our lads fully, the above examples are just to show differences of views, a long winded explanation of "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"

In reply to Postmanpat:

I reckon the greenpeace heirachy feel this is fantastic. They've been in the broadsheets daily for a very long period now just by getting some of their activists locked up in Russia. Which other of their campaigns or protests has got this much news time recently?

In reply to muppetfilter:

More flippin nonsense - very few people get killed on rigs - there was one fatality in the UK offshore sector 2010/11 out of 28,000 personnel employed offshore and that was a worker collapsing onshift not work related.

In reply to pebbles:

It could have been worse, they could have picked on the French, they simply sunk the Rainbow Warrior