UKC

I'm not quite sure what to make of this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19822407

I've never been much good at seeing the world in black and white so who's right, impassioned presenter or tactless correspondent?

Or is this just one of those grey areas where both parties raise important public health/awareness points but there is collateral damage where their opinions and interests collide?

It seems to me both parties make quite valid points and I'm not sure which message I'd back were I forced to choose one.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

Presenter is in the right.

Correspondent showed no concern for Presenter's wellbeing, he was only saying she was 'not a good example to young people' for 'choosing' to be fat.

In reply to jkarran: What could she do on grit ?

In reply to 999thAndy:

He was clearly tactless and his particular message potentially very hurtful but the message that obesity is harmful is a valid one. Is it a message that can be voiced in only the most general, impersonal way?

jk

In reply to dunc56:

Probably more than I have in the last couple of years!
jk

In reply to jkarran:

I couldn't disagree more. I challenge you to find one obese person who woke one morning and said to themselves "I think I am going to become fat today".

Obesity is not something people make a concious decision to adopt in the same way that people with mental illness don't suddenly decided to go a bit loopy.

In reply to ByEek:


Perhaps you could point out exactly where I suggested that is the case? If not then perhaps you could refrain from attributing patently stupid opinions to me

I didn't say I agreed wholeheartedly with either party, I said they each make some valid points. For what it's worth I think there are fewer (if any) point's to object to in the presenter's response but that doesn't mean the correspondent makes no valid points.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

His message was not about her health at all, he simply used reference to her size/weight to belittle her.

I can't think of a single overweight person I know who wants to be fat or who consciously chooses to make themselves obese.

Cue loads of racing snakes banging on about how they should just eat less and move more. Advice roughly as useful as 'it's only depression, pull yourself together man'

In reply to jkarran:

Caveat - I can't watch the video at work, so I'm responding to your message rather than the points in the video.

I think it's a valid message but I'm not sure it's one that needs reiterating at every opportunity. Maybe I'm overestimating people here, but I'd imagine that most obese people are aware on some level that being obese isn't doing any good for their health or their quality of life, and people who feel reasonably happy and self-confident are going to be in a better mental state to deal constructively with that and lose some weight than people who are constantly having their self-esteem sapped by being told what a useless, worthless lard-arse they are.

To use a climbing analogy, it's like belaying your mate who's on the verge of freaking out well above their gear - it's generally a bad idea to keep reminding them of how badly they'd hurt themselves if they fell off, and normally a better plan to reassure them and help them get their head together so they can get to safety.

In reply to jkarran:

Text book trolling if you ask me.

But both parties have valid points. But I think the anti bullying party has the most valid one IMO.

In reply to 999thAndy:


What different advice would you give to someone looking to reduce their weight? Assuming of course they don't have some underlying medical problem.

Should we not acknowledge there is a risk in obesity? And if we do then should we not consider how to reduce the harm it does? Obviously targeting individuals with unsolicited comment/mail is not the most tactful or probably effective way of addressing the issue.

I think perhaps the delivery method and the message of the correspondent are being conflated somewhat. Either that or I've become a complete asshole without ever noticing.

jk

In reply to myth:


Me, or the person that wrote in? I'm not trolling, I just saw the piece and it made me think so I wondered what others thought.

jk

In reply to ByEek:

Does that change the fact that obese people have to live with more health problems and die younger? How people become obese do not influence the fact that obesity is harmful. It does influence how best society can reduce that harm.

In reply to The New NickB:


You raise some fair points. However, to illustrate my point, simply replace the word "obese" and "obesity" in what you have written with the words "mental illness". People don't choose obesity in the same way that they don't choose mental illness. Yet those of us fortunate enough not to be blighted by such a condition simply dismiss those who are obese in the same way that people with mental illnesses are dismissed by the over simplistic statement "It is all in your head - snap out of it." There is no understanding and no compassion which comes back to the points made by the TV presenter - it is bullying, plain and simple.

In reply to ByEek:

No, but it is something that there is a choice over whether to address. Much like giving up smoking (which very few people make a concious decision to get hooked on - it's just something they fell into, much like putting on weight)

In reply to ByEek:

I don't think you can interchange a genuine illness (mental illness) with a condition that is 95% of the time brought on by over consumption (the other 5% being brought on as symptoms of other medical conditions e.g. Thyroid problems)

In reply to ByEek:

Re-read what have written and respond to that.

In reply to jkarran:

No, not you. The supposed 'bully' I think is the troll. Solid 9/10.

In reply to 999thAndy:

No, but I know a few people who eat too much (because they like food) and don't do quite enough exercise (because they are lazy or don't have time), so put on weight. I'm one. And I'm no "racing snake".

You don't choose to be fat, but you definitely do choose to do (or not do) the things that make you fat.

Neil

In reply to balmybaldwin: I can feel myself about to bang my head against a brick wall on this so this is my last response on the subject. All the obese people I know have an underlying mental illness to a varying degree, be that depression, stress or worse. Obesity is not something they choose, neither is it something they feel they have any control over. Making broad statements about how obese people simply need to just snap out of it, eat healthily and do more exercise completely misses the point, is not helpful to anyone and doesn't solve anything.

That is all. Have a lovely evening.

In reply to Neil Williams:

And if depression, anxiety or similar are the cause of those actions, those should be treated, I guess.

Neil

In reply to ByEek:

I see what you're saying. Not all overweight people are greedy or lazy, it often stems from something. I think smoking is the perfect thing to compare it to. When I'm stressed out or bored or tired etc.. I have a fag, I know it's stupid and bad for me and have tried to quit but it's been my vice for years. My coping mechanism if you will.

Replace the fag with food and that's my sister. She did this for long enough that she is now obese and has serious confidence issues that borders on depression. Guess what she wants to reach for as soon as she feels bad about herself?! It's not logical and compounds the problem but the issue is not as simple as put the cake down and go for a jog!

Having said all of that if anyone turns to me and calls me a moron for having a fag I agree with them; call an obese person a moron for ordering pudding and it'll likely upset them a great deal. So there are a few differences!

In reply to 999thAndy:

Does it say 'he' anywhere? Didn't notice.

There is a big anti fat-shaming thing in America, it really is getting out of hand.

Some people describe World Health Organisations campaigns against obesity as hate speech and the way she conflates obesity with racism is just belittling to the issue of race.

Although in America many of the Fat is Brilliant campaigners are also black, often women, so they bring over campaigning skills from those fronts and try to apply them to obesity. Remember Fat is a Feminist Issue, anyone?