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Anyone who uses Wilton 3 needs to look at this.
http://www.planningpa.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications-17/applicationDetai...
The work will interfere and block climbing on Orange Wall and the area
near Forked Cracks. The application expiry date is the 27th November and not the 15th
Send all objections quoting the planning number and the reason to
planning.control@bolton.gov.uk
Anyone who requires any further info please email me
http://www.planningpa.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications-17/applicationDetai...
The work will interfere and block climbing on Orange Wall and the area
near Forked Cracks. The application expiry date is the 27th November and not the 15th
Send all objections quoting the planning number and the reason to
planning.control@bolton.gov.uk
Anyone who requires any further info please email me
In reply to paget:
Not that I'm aware, although the BMC have sent a letter to the planning people
Also the sign indicating climbing days had also been altered with Monday being scrubbed out
Not that I'm aware, although the BMC have sent a letter to the planning people
Also the sign indicating climbing days had also been altered with Monday being scrubbed out
In reply to GeoffM:
Looking at that application it looks like (if it's approved) it would almost certainly mean the end of the area between Orange Wall and Slime Chimney - some very popular routes and one of the earliest developed areas in the quarries.
I for one will send an objection. This is simply not on.
Phil
Looking at that application it looks like (if it's approved) it would almost certainly mean the end of the area between Orange Wall and Slime Chimney - some very popular routes and one of the earliest developed areas in the quarries.
I for one will send an objection. This is simply not on.
Phil
In reply to GeoffM:
Have registered an objection - Can anyone comment on the ownership? I thought it was jointly owned with the BMC? If so wouldn't that mean some agreement would be needed from them?
Have registered an objection - Can anyone comment on the ownership? I thought it was jointly owned with the BMC? If so wouldn't that mean some agreement would be needed from them?
In reply to csw:
The gun club own the quarry, BUT
"There is a long history of climbers using the Wilton quarries and in fact there is a right of access to all 4 quarries for climbing, through a deed of covenant written into the Land Registry’s title document for each of the quarries. In addition to this, the land is mapped under CRoW as Open Access, affording another level of legal access for climbers and the general public" Quoted from the BMC'sletter of objection
Its a case of "give them an inch and they'll take a mile !!
Get your objection in
The gun club own the quarry, BUT
"There is a long history of climbers using the Wilton quarries and in fact there is a right of access to all 4 quarries for climbing, through a deed of covenant written into the Land Registry’s title document for each of the quarries. In addition to this, the land is mapped under CRoW as Open Access, affording another level of legal access for climbers and the general public" Quoted from the BMC'sletter of objection
Its a case of "give them an inch and they'll take a mile !!
Get your objection in
In reply to GeoffM:
Is it possible for someone that is computer literate to put up an online "objection" petition so that we can get hundreds/thousands of ukc climbers signatures to send to the council.
Is it possible for someone that is computer literate to put up an online "objection" petition so that we can get hundreds/thousands of ukc climbers signatures to send to the council.
In reply to GeoffM:
Thanks for putting this up Geoff, I was a bit too slow off the mark!
Anybody putting in an objection needs to give their name and address as well as the application number and their comments. If the commentors details ate not with the email it may not count!
please contact your local clubs or any other climbers you know who use the quarries and ask them to comment.
Make sure the nature of the complaint is clear ie the position of the container which will prevent climbing on those walls. The fact that the council have closed comments on the application early also needs to be emphasized.
Use your social media to get everyone you can commenting. The close date for comments is the 27th, do it quickly.
if you can post back on here when you have emailed the council it will help us to make sure that the comments made are being added to the application and not getting lost in the ether.
Lets make this happen... I'm not good enough to climb at Wilton 1 yet, if orange wall goes I'm screwed!
Thanks for putting this up Geoff, I was a bit too slow off the mark!
Anybody putting in an objection needs to give their name and address as well as the application number and their comments. If the commentors details ate not with the email it may not count!
please contact your local clubs or any other climbers you know who use the quarries and ask them to comment.
Make sure the nature of the complaint is clear ie the position of the container which will prevent climbing on those walls. The fact that the council have closed comments on the application early also needs to be emphasized.
Use your social media to get everyone you can commenting. The close date for comments is the 27th, do it quickly.
if you can post back on here when you have emailed the council it will help us to make sure that the comments made are being added to the application and not getting lost in the ether.
Lets make this happen... I'm not good enough to climb at Wilton 1 yet, if orange wall goes I'm screwed!
In reply to StewartBradshaw:
Cheers Stuart. Thanks for adding what I missed
W1, well that makes two of us
Cheers Stuart. Thanks for adding what I missed
W1, well that makes two of us
In reply to GeoffM:
Im on it and will spread the word. Whilst on the subject of the gun clubs can we report the waste they are dumping in the pit in wilton 2.
Im on it and will spread the word. Whilst on the subject of the gun clubs can we report the waste they are dumping in the pit in wilton 2.
In reply to dave mann:
Wilton 2 is owned by a different shooting club, worth mentioning it to the council though or it will never get sorted out!
Wilton 2 is owned by a different shooting club, worth mentioning it to the council though or it will never get sorted out!
In reply to GeoffM:
I've sent a short article in to the UKC editors which I'm hoping will get a few more responses, I contacted the forum moderators too asking to make the thread more prominent, which I think they have as its now in red?!
I've got my comments in to the council and have emailed every one I know to do the same.
I've sent a short article in to the UKC editors which I'm hoping will get a few more responses, I contacted the forum moderators too asking to make the thread more prominent, which I think they have as its now in red?!
I've got my comments in to the council and have emailed every one I know to do the same.
In reply to StewartBradshaw:
Okay - done that. I didn't put my address but I stated my employers name.
If you need someone willing to chain(?) themselves to the rock give me a shout!
Cheers
Graham.
Okay - done that. I didn't put my address but I stated my employers name.
If you need someone willing to chain(?) themselves to the rock give me a shout!
Cheers
Graham.
In reply to GeoffM:
Quick update, I have just spoke to Jodie Turton who is the Principal Development Officer at Bolton Planning.
As the online comments were closed on the 13th November in error she has agreed to hold comments open until the 29th of November which gives us a little more time to spread the word.
She is trying to get the comments through the website up and running again, until they are just keep emailing in on the address given by Geoff.
Taaa
Quick update, I have just spoke to Jodie Turton who is the Principal Development Officer at Bolton Planning.
As the online comments were closed on the 13th November in error she has agreed to hold comments open until the 29th of November which gives us a little more time to spread the word.
She is trying to get the comments through the website up and running again, until they are just keep emailing in on the address given by Geoff.
Taaa
In reply to csw:
Yes it did. It was many moons ago and was actually a sit-in protest on top of the Prow.
> Did it work?
Yes it did. It was many moons ago and was actually a sit-in protest on top of the Prow.
In reply to BlownAway:
Probably in a time before "dogging" was invented though.
I enjoy climbing at the Wiltons, I see it as my local wall, but there's no way I'll be chaining myself to a wall in a secluded quarry!
Lord knows what goes on in there when its dark!
> Yes it did. It was many moons ago and was actually a sit-in protest on top of the Prow.
Probably in a time before "dogging" was invented though.
I enjoy climbing at the Wiltons, I see it as my local wall, but there's no way I'll be chaining myself to a wall in a secluded quarry!
Lord knows what goes on in there when its dark!
In reply to GeoffM:
To All who have sent their objections and all who have looked at the thread
( it was 930 when I looked this afty)now 1500+
Thank you
Keep on objecting
To All who have sent their objections and all who have looked at the thread
( it was 930 when I looked this afty)now 1500+
Thank you
Keep on objecting
In reply to GeoffM:
Objection registered. I might be too shit to climb a lot of the stuff at Wilton but I still go!
Objection registered. I might be too shit to climb a lot of the stuff at Wilton but I still go!
In reply to GeoffM:
Objection sent. Bang out of order good Crag being spoilt. My second ever lead was orange crack and every time i go i have to lead it
Objection sent. Bang out of order good Crag being spoilt. My second ever lead was orange crack and every time i go i have to lead it
In reply to GeoffM:
I had spotted this back in June and posted on the forum, but there was relatively little response. Glad to see it being raised now, thanks for your work on it everyone.
I actually feel a bit sorry for the planning officer, she'll not have expected such a swell of objections. Keep us posted, I work in planning so if someone is needed to attend committee, I would consider going.
Dan
I had spotted this back in June and posted on the forum, but there was relatively little response. Glad to see it being raised now, thanks for your work on it everyone.
I actually feel a bit sorry for the planning officer, she'll not have expected such a swell of objections. Keep us posted, I work in planning so if someone is needed to attend committee, I would consider going.
Dan
In reply to GeoffM:
Just tried to register an objection. Have registered an account but cant seem to log an objection.
you'd have thought the gun club would have been more understanding.
Just tried to register an objection. Have registered an account but cant seem to log an objection.
you'd have thought the gun club would have been more understanding.
In reply to john morrissey:
Hi John
The posts on the thread explain why you can't raise an objection that way.
The best way currently is to send an email to the address Geoff gives in the OP.
Phil
Hi John
The posts on the thread explain why you can't raise an objection that way.
The best way currently is to send an email to the address Geoff gives in the OP.
Phil
In reply to GeoffM:
Objection sent. Cheers for the heads up. I've always enjoyed climbing at Wilton and thought it was a good example of two user groups sharing one facility. Let's hope this can continue into the future.
Objection sent. Cheers for the heads up. I've always enjoyed climbing at Wilton and thought it was a good example of two user groups sharing one facility. Let's hope this can continue into the future.
In reply to BlownAway:
Out of curiosity what was it a protest about? (apologies for digressing from the matter at hand)
> Yes it did. It was many moons ago and was actually a sit-in protest on top of the Prow.
Out of curiosity what was it a protest about? (apologies for digressing from the matter at hand)
In reply to GeoffM:
I objected to wholesale restrictions a couple of years ago and had discussions with the BMC then. The access around the top of the road
on a dangerous bend and walking over the tops is poor to say the least. And recently on a visit to Wilton two with my climbing partner of 30yrs it was only when we dropped down towards W2 that we could glimpse a very small red flag in W4 ! We were close and safe to cast our eyes on Wilton 2 and the Hut there seemed much bigger! The wall in 2, Wilton Wall was a Disgrace and must have been pitted with over 30 shots! Something must be done about this abuse and dessicration.
I objected to wholesale restrictions a couple of years ago and had discussions with the BMC then. The access around the top of the road
on a dangerous bend and walking over the tops is poor to say the least. And recently on a visit to Wilton two with my climbing partner of 30yrs it was only when we dropped down towards W2 that we could glimpse a very small red flag in W4 ! We were close and safe to cast our eyes on Wilton 2 and the Hut there seemed much bigger! The wall in 2, Wilton Wall was a Disgrace and must have been pitted with over 30 shots! Something must be done about this abuse and dessicration.
In reply to GeoffM:
I was up there last week, the shelter is now completed and 2 shipping containers are on site, retrospective planning at its best!!
I was up there last week, the shelter is now completed and 2 shipping containers are on site, retrospective planning at its best!!
In reply to joepaul:
Hi Joe are there definitely 2 shipping containers as well as the new shooting shelter? when I contacted planning to get the initial enforcement on the works there was only one container. If they have brought on a second container after the enforcement officer has issued the stop notice then they are in breach of the notice, and I'll chase enforcement up again tomorrow.
Hi Joe are there definitely 2 shipping containers as well as the new shooting shelter? when I contacted planning to get the initial enforcement on the works there was only one container. If they have brought on a second container after the enforcement officer has issued the stop notice then they are in breach of the notice, and I'll chase enforcement up again tomorrow.
In reply to GeoffM:
I recommend any facebookers to share this page. Ive had a few responses as a result.
I recommend any facebookers to share this page. Ive had a few responses as a result.
In reply to GeoffM:
Hi Geoff,
hope your well. Whilst I am dissapointed at the Gun Clubs activities, I cannot help wondering if "The climbing community" objecting to their proposals might not have negative long term effects on access. Can no one talk to the Gun club and find out what their objectives are, and see if there is a way we can help them meet them, whilst at the same time securing access we want. Maybe if we annoy them enough some of their more radical members might decide shooting every day is a great idea , could they legally do this?
Cheers sjc
Hi Geoff,
hope your well. Whilst I am dissapointed at the Gun Clubs activities, I cannot help wondering if "The climbing community" objecting to their proposals might not have negative long term effects on access. Can no one talk to the Gun club and find out what their objectives are, and see if there is a way we can help them meet them, whilst at the same time securing access we want. Maybe if we annoy them enough some of their more radical members might decide shooting every day is a great idea , could they legally do this?
Cheers sjc
In reply to sjc:
Climbers have a right of access to the quarry which is legally binding, through a deed of covenant which was a condition of the sale of the quarry.
Climbers (and anybody else) can also use the quarry at any time as it is designated under the countryside and rights of way act, which means that if pushed the club would only be allowed to shoot for 28 days of the year, by arrangement. Nobody is pushing for that.
As the club have started without any consultation with climbers, or any other user group, and started the works without planning, and as they have continued the works after enforcement was served, we need to respond to the council.
Not in a negative way, but to get our collective voice heard, and to make sure that the club know that other user groups use the quarry, and act responsibly.
Climbers have a right of access to the quarry which is legally binding, through a deed of covenant which was a condition of the sale of the quarry.
Climbers (and anybody else) can also use the quarry at any time as it is designated under the countryside and rights of way act, which means that if pushed the club would only be allowed to shoot for 28 days of the year, by arrangement. Nobody is pushing for that.
As the club have started without any consultation with climbers, or any other user group, and started the works without planning, and as they have continued the works after enforcement was served, we need to respond to the council.
Not in a negative way, but to get our collective voice heard, and to make sure that the club know that other user groups use the quarry, and act responsibly.
In reply to StewartBradshaw:
Thank you. I was concerned that objecting could negatively impact on access.
sjc
Thank you. I was concerned that objecting could negatively impact on access.
sjc
In reply to sjc:
In reply to sjc:
I agree, It's a fine balance though, we have to respect the fact that they own the site.
A bit of a get together should be organised at some point (as has been suggested before) clean up the quarry type job or get some climbers shooting and some shooters climbing.
Objections are just a way of getting our voice heard. In the long run it might actually help us (shooters and climbers) to talk a bit more, which can only be of benefit to both sets of users.
In reply to sjc:
I agree, It's a fine balance though, we have to respect the fact that they own the site.
A bit of a get together should be organised at some point (as has been suggested before) clean up the quarry type job or get some climbers shooting and some shooters climbing.
Objections are just a way of getting our voice heard. In the long run it might actually help us (shooters and climbers) to talk a bit more, which can only be of benefit to both sets of users.
In reply to lancsmike:
Mike I have been complaining about the attitude of the gun clubs for years
Anyone who knows me will verify that. I argued against the access from the bend
for exactly the reasons you experienced , Deaf Ears was the result
You try getting into W2 .. It's classed as open access land , you would need a key
Mike I have been complaining about the attitude of the gun clubs for years
Anyone who knows me will verify that. I argued against the access from the bend
for exactly the reasons you experienced , Deaf Ears was the result
You try getting into W2 .. It's classed as open access land , you would need a key
In reply to StewartBradshaw:
There used to be a reasonable relationship with the shooters
that was before they bought the quarries. They now seem to ride roughshod
over climbers and anyone having access
Not so long ago during preliminary work they started burning rubbish near Orange Wall
while people where climbing causing the climbers to pack in and move
I'm all for dual access but they want it on there terms
Hence blocking the stile entrance at the gate
There used to be a reasonable relationship with the shooters
that was before they bought the quarries. They now seem to ride roughshod
over climbers and anyone having access
Not so long ago during preliminary work they started burning rubbish near Orange Wall
while people where climbing causing the climbers to pack in and move
I'm all for dual access but they want it on there terms
Hence blocking the stile entrance at the gate
In reply to GeoffM:
Hi Geoff,
Only just seen this, been away all weekend, can't believe they are so flagrantly destroying climbing in the other Wiltons, objection email sent.
Rick
Hi Geoff,
Only just seen this, been away all weekend, can't believe they are so flagrantly destroying climbing in the other Wiltons, objection email sent.
Rick
In reply to GeoffM:
Look chaps, we need to take a broader view on this. As climbers we have just about millions of places to climb and routes to do. Shooters are very restricted and have, in comparison, virtually no facilities. Shooting ranges are few and far between, and subject to heavy restriction. Climbing venues are really really common: they are all over the place and have lots of routes.
If it was up to me I'd just give them what they need and be pleased to do so. As a sport we don't need this quarry and the few routes affected. The value of it to the shooters outweighs the value to climbing by many fold.
We are being selfish in objecting to this. Look at the big picture.
Look chaps, we need to take a broader view on this. As climbers we have just about millions of places to climb and routes to do. Shooters are very restricted and have, in comparison, virtually no facilities. Shooting ranges are few and far between, and subject to heavy restriction. Climbing venues are really really common: they are all over the place and have lots of routes.
If it was up to me I'd just give them what they need and be pleased to do so. As a sport we don't need this quarry and the few routes affected. The value of it to the shooters outweighs the value to climbing by many fold.
We are being selfish in objecting to this. Look at the big picture.
In reply to top cat:
Don't be silly - shooters can shoot without rock. Climbers can't climb without rock.
Don't be silly - shooters can shoot without rock. Climbers can't climb without rock.
In reply to top cat:
The quarries at Wilton are pretty much the best around - and (as much as it pains me to say) far superior to some of the others, especially for beginners. It'd be a sad day if we lost them.
Plus, there is the not small matter of right of access.
The quarries at Wilton are pretty much the best around - and (as much as it pains me to say) far superior to some of the others, especially for beginners. It'd be a sad day if we lost them.
Plus, there is the not small matter of right of access.
In reply to top cat:
There are a number of shooting ranges next door to each other at the Wiltons. Each owned by a different shooting club, not often used on the same days.
Nobody is suggesting stopping shooting at Wilton 3, just allowing other sports to use the same venue.
It's hardly selfish to ask the to allow access and allow use of the quarry for all user groups.
People have been climbing at Wilton 3 for as long as they have been shooting there.
Its nice to share!!!
There are a number of shooting ranges next door to each other at the Wiltons. Each owned by a different shooting club, not often used on the same days.
Nobody is suggesting stopping shooting at Wilton 3, just allowing other sports to use the same venue.
It's hardly selfish to ask the to allow access and allow use of the quarry for all user groups.
People have been climbing at Wilton 3 for as long as they have been shooting there.
Its nice to share!!!
In reply to top cat:
They can still shoot there without making routes inaccessible, what's selfish about wanting them to do so?
They can still shoot there without making routes inaccessible, what's selfish about wanting them to do so?
In reply to everyone:
I have spoken to the consultant who submitted the application on behalf of the gun club.
I have read all of the documents on the Bolton planning web-site which relate to this application.
I visited the site yesterday and took measurements.
I have lodged an objection to one part of the planning application.
The gun club in question, Bolton Gun Club, sought advice from their National Association, on how to upgrade their facilities to enable 50 metre shooting. Unfortunately their advisor neglected to mention the need for planning permission. That is why they are applying retrospectively for permission.
The main objectives for the gun club seem to be to increase membership (which currently stands at approximately 70), particularly the number of young, disabled and female members. However, one of the documents submitted implies that they do not expect a significant increase in membership:"It is anticipated that these additional members would be the families of existing members which would not increase the number of vehicles visiting the site",*
I have suggested in my objection that if the container was sited in the area designated on the Proposed Site Development plan as the New Car Park area (i.e. the area of flat ground immediately to the right as you enter the quarry) it would cause no inconvenience to climbers.
Wilton 2 and Wilton 3 are used by two totally separate gun clubs. It may be confusing for some readers if we mention rubbish-dumping and blocked stiles as these have not taken place in Wilton 3.
I am not a shooter, I am a climber. I hope that this information will be helpful to anyone who still hasn't made their objection to the application.
Mike Blood
*Of some concern in light of one of Geoff's comments above, however, is that the same document (called 'Agent re: highways'. I cannot post the link) claims that shooters can use the quarry on Mondays. Has this been negotiated with the BMC?
I have spoken to the consultant who submitted the application on behalf of the gun club.
I have read all of the documents on the Bolton planning web-site which relate to this application.
I visited the site yesterday and took measurements.
I have lodged an objection to one part of the planning application.
The gun club in question, Bolton Gun Club, sought advice from their National Association, on how to upgrade their facilities to enable 50 metre shooting. Unfortunately their advisor neglected to mention the need for planning permission. That is why they are applying retrospectively for permission.
The main objectives for the gun club seem to be to increase membership (which currently stands at approximately 70), particularly the number of young, disabled and female members. However, one of the documents submitted implies that they do not expect a significant increase in membership:"It is anticipated that these additional members would be the families of existing members which would not increase the number of vehicles visiting the site",*
I have suggested in my objection that if the container was sited in the area designated on the Proposed Site Development plan as the New Car Park area (i.e. the area of flat ground immediately to the right as you enter the quarry) it would cause no inconvenience to climbers.
Wilton 2 and Wilton 3 are used by two totally separate gun clubs. It may be confusing for some readers if we mention rubbish-dumping and blocked stiles as these have not taken place in Wilton 3.
I am not a shooter, I am a climber. I hope that this information will be helpful to anyone who still hasn't made their objection to the application.
Mike Blood
*Of some concern in light of one of Geoff's comments above, however, is that the same document (called 'Agent re: highways'. I cannot post the link) claims that shooters can use the quarry on Mondays. Has this been negotiated with the BMC?
In reply to top cat:
Im sorry but you miss the point,slowly but surely since they bought the quarry they have eroded access, blocking the stile for one, groups with limited abilitys struggle to gain access, yet part of the gun clubs application underlines and plays the disability card.
They have taken it upon themselves to now include Mondays as a shooting day
It is open access land, we have a covenant built in the sale that allows us to climb. Climbers have bent over backwards to allow the shooters to
carry on their sport.
You try getting into W2
They have no concern but their own
Its not about being selfish,its about sharing and being consulted.
If you want to roll on your back and put your legs in the air fine
But dont expect many folk to tickle your belly
Im sorry but you miss the point,slowly but surely since they bought the quarry they have eroded access, blocking the stile for one, groups with limited abilitys struggle to gain access, yet part of the gun clubs application underlines and plays the disability card.
They have taken it upon themselves to now include Mondays as a shooting day
It is open access land, we have a covenant built in the sale that allows us to climb. Climbers have bent over backwards to allow the shooters to
carry on their sport.
You try getting into W2
They have no concern but their own
Its not about being selfish,its about sharing and being consulted.
If you want to roll on your back and put your legs in the air fine
But dont expect many folk to tickle your belly
In reply to nwclimber:
Hi Mike, the BMC and Les are aware of the Monday issue, Monday had been crossed off the site notice.
Was a public notice displayed at the entrance or nearby?
Point taken about the W2-4 issues, I was making highlighting the way the clubs seem to have ignored allowing access.
Hi Mike, the BMC and Les are aware of the Monday issue, Monday had been crossed off the site notice.
Was a public notice displayed at the entrance or nearby?
Point taken about the W2-4 issues, I was making highlighting the way the clubs seem to have ignored allowing access.
In reply to nwclimber:
It probably explains who scored out the Monday on the sign and the reason shooters started turning up on Mondays and asking us to leave!
There are a number of contradictions in the submitted documents, the design and access statement, states the intention of increasing membership of the club, this is backed up by the actions so far, larger range, disabled access, increased parking facilities on site. In response to highways comments on the access needing to have wider visual splays onto the road, the agent responds by saying that there will not be a increase in traffic, as the new members will be the families of current members, and will car share.
As far as I'm concerned, if the container is shifted far enough away from the wall to allow climbing, or ideally onto the parking area, then I'll stop moaning.
One problem is that the submitted plans are not detailed enough, there is no topographical survey of the site showing the levels or the detailed position of the walls. Without this it is not possible to say how far away from the walls the container will be, and the planners would not be able to enforce anything if planning was granted and the container subsequently placed as per the inaccurate drawings.
Levels also need to be established as baseline data, as you will have seen a lot of the quarry has been dug up to form the bunding around the range. Without the levels they could dig it all up again in a few years, and nobody could prove anything had happened.
It probably explains who scored out the Monday on the sign and the reason shooters started turning up on Mondays and asking us to leave!
There are a number of contradictions in the submitted documents, the design and access statement, states the intention of increasing membership of the club, this is backed up by the actions so far, larger range, disabled access, increased parking facilities on site. In response to highways comments on the access needing to have wider visual splays onto the road, the agent responds by saying that there will not be a increase in traffic, as the new members will be the families of current members, and will car share.
As far as I'm concerned, if the container is shifted far enough away from the wall to allow climbing, or ideally onto the parking area, then I'll stop moaning.
One problem is that the submitted plans are not detailed enough, there is no topographical survey of the site showing the levels or the detailed position of the walls. Without this it is not possible to say how far away from the walls the container will be, and the planners would not be able to enforce anything if planning was granted and the container subsequently placed as per the inaccurate drawings.
Levels also need to be established as baseline data, as you will have seen a lot of the quarry has been dug up to form the bunding around the range. Without the levels they could dig it all up again in a few years, and nobody could prove anything had happened.
In reply to GeoffM:
If you mean a notice about the Planning Application, I believe there was.
> Was a public notice displayed at the entrance or nearby?
If you mean a notice about the Planning Application, I believe there was.
In reply to nwclimber:
One of the documents also states clearly that the application "should not affect access".
If one takes this as an instruction it is quite clear that its intention is that any structures MUST NOT affect access to the climbing areas.
> *Of some concern in light of one of Geoff's comments above, however, is that the same document (called 'Agent re: highways'. I cannot post the link) claims that shooters can use the quarry on Mondays. Has this been negotiated with the BMC?
One of the documents also states clearly that the application "should not affect access".
If one takes this as an instruction it is quite clear that its intention is that any structures MUST NOT affect access to the climbing areas.
In reply to BlownAway:
Whether it is access to the quarry, or access to the walls is not defined though!
Also "will not affect access" would be better than "should not affect access"
Whether it is access to the quarry, or access to the walls is not defined though!
Also "will not affect access" would be better than "should not affect access"
In reply to GeoffM:
I was born in Bolton and loved climbing in this quarry amongst the others. I've sent my objections in - at the very least the BMC should be actively involved to try and get an agreement for all parties.
Thanks for posting this....
I was born in Bolton and loved climbing in this quarry amongst the others. I've sent my objections in - at the very least the BMC should be actively involved to try and get an agreement for all parties.
Thanks for posting this....
In reply to GeoffM:
I've sent objecting comments to the council via their website.
According to their woeful plan, I don't think they have enough space to position their classroom behind their proposed firing line. 50m takes you out of the back of the firing line unless the targets are right on the back wall of the "backstop" (which wouldn't work - they need the bank of sand behind the targets to catch bullets.)
I've sent objecting comments to the council via their website.
According to their woeful plan, I don't think they have enough space to position their classroom behind their proposed firing line. 50m takes you out of the back of the firing line unless the targets are right on the back wall of the "backstop" (which wouldn't work - they need the bank of sand behind the targets to catch bullets.)
Objection sent
In reply to StewartBradshaw:
Thanks you for that elementary English lesson.
> Whether it is access to the quarry, or access to the walls is not defined though!
> Also "will not affect access" would be better than "should not affect access"
Thanks you for that elementary English lesson.
In reply to Calder:
The things I was told on this were lost somewhere in a beer-filled evening. I'll get the story on this properly over the next weekend and will let you know.
Phil
> Out of curiosity what was it a protest about? (apologies for digressing from the matter at hand)
The things I was told on this were lost somewhere in a beer-filled evening. I'll get the story on this properly over the next weekend and will let you know.
Phil
In reply to BlownAway:
Probably protesting about Lonnie, his beer ???
And his HVS 5b's haw haw haw haw
Probably protesting about Lonnie, his beer ???
And his HVS 5b's haw haw haw haw
In reply to GeoffM:
objection to this is truly URGENT
quote reference: 90850/13
email your objection to
planning.control@bolton.gov.uk
objection to this is truly URGENT
quote reference: 90850/13
email your objection to
planning.control@bolton.gov.uk
In reply to GeoffM:
Just to let y'all know I've sent an email to the planning people letting them know I believe in access for all!
Just to let y'all know I've sent an email to the planning people letting them know I believe in access for all!
In reply to GeoffM:
This sounds a bit more hopeful - from a letter submitted today by RT Design (Architects):
"With regards to the objections from the BMC, relating to the 5m clearance to the rock face I have taken specific site measurements, with the help of the gentleman in attendance, which showed that the 5m clearance can be obtained with the current proposal. On this issue our client is willing to consider alternative options and is contacting the BMC Officer to suggest a meeting on site to resolve the issue."
This sounds a bit more hopeful - from a letter submitted today by RT Design (Architects):
"With regards to the objections from the BMC, relating to the 5m clearance to the rock face I have taken specific site measurements, with the help of the gentleman in attendance, which showed that the 5m clearance can be obtained with the current proposal. On this issue our client is willing to consider alternative options and is contacting the BMC Officer to suggest a meeting on site to resolve the issue."
In reply to Carl Smethurst:
The levels behind the shooting shelter (between the shelter and the wall) are higher than the new path, and the shelter by approximately 1.5m.
In order to put in the container (the size of which has not been specified) you would need to either excavate back towards the wall, or put it on stilts.
Excavating back towards the wall is not a good option, without knowing how stable the blocks of gritstone that make up the wall are. Digging back could cause stability issues. (I think) (although I'm not any kind of expert).
Moving it across to the car park is the best outcome for climbers. Hopefully that works for the shooters too.
Stilts would just look silly.
The levels behind the shooting shelter (between the shelter and the wall) are higher than the new path, and the shelter by approximately 1.5m.
In order to put in the container (the size of which has not been specified) you would need to either excavate back towards the wall, or put it on stilts.
Excavating back towards the wall is not a good option, without knowing how stable the blocks of gritstone that make up the wall are. Digging back could cause stability issues. (I think) (although I'm not any kind of expert).
Moving it across to the car park is the best outcome for climbers. Hopefully that works for the shooters too.
Stilts would just look silly.
In reply to StewartBradshaw:
Yes - sounds sensible. It's hard to tell from the plans - but changing the location sounds like the best solution.
I've lodged my objection by email and shared on Facebook.
Yes - sounds sensible. It's hard to tell from the plans - but changing the location sounds like the best solution.
I've lodged my objection by email and shared on Facebook.
In reply to StewartBradshaw:
Orange wall comes into the from noon until dusk
After heavy mist the wall gets damp and needs the sun to dry it out
Block the sunlight with the container and the wall will remain wet
Re-sighting is a better idea
Lets hope Friday a solution is reached
Orange wall comes into the from noon until dusk
After heavy mist the wall gets damp and needs the sun to dry it out
Block the sunlight with the container and the wall will remain wet
Re-sighting is a better idea
Lets hope Friday a solution is reached
Objection email sent.
So we behave like grasping millionaires, begruding a poor man a fiver.
Look, the quarries at W are a drop in our veery big ocean, but for shooting sports they are locally significant, and still part of a very small puddle nationally.
In reply to top cat:
Thank you for your support. May I suggest that you take no further part in this discussion?
The phrase "with friends like that, who needs enemies" springs to mind.
Phil
Thank you for your support. May I suggest that you take no further part in this discussion?
The phrase "with friends like that, who needs enemies" springs to mind.
Phil
In reply to top cat:
The numbers climbing and the numbers shooting makes the ratio bout right
There aren't many places in Bolton to climb equal to W3
Especially if you have no transport and of school age
So as I suspect you laid on your back put your legs in the air
and only a few tickled your belly.
So from now in I refuse to have a battle of wits with
someone who has no ammunition
The numbers climbing and the numbers shooting makes the ratio bout right
There aren't many places in Bolton to climb equal to W3
Especially if you have no transport and of school age
So as I suspect you laid on your back put your legs in the air
and only a few tickled your belly.
So from now in I refuse to have a battle of wits with
someone who has no ammunition
In reply to GeoffM:
Hi All, I have read about the building work at Wilton3 and the comments posted discussing this, its disappointing to see the level of ignorance being expressed by some of our fellow community experts. I have read comments discussing all of the Wilton quarries at some point.
Having been to the quarry and talked to some of the shooting community I gained an understanding of their hopes to improve. They did not treat climbers in a negative way and were a friendly lot. They do have a reasonable right to improve their facilities, They are the land owners, their members pay to use the quarry
Its sad but I do expect abusive replies because am capable of understanding the whole picture, I'm slightly ashamed by the ignorance shown to anyone who is not aggressively against the gun club... the quarry is shared, we ultimately rely on goodwill, why are people trying to mess this up.
Steve
Hi All, I have read about the building work at Wilton3 and the comments posted discussing this, its disappointing to see the level of ignorance being expressed by some of our fellow community experts. I have read comments discussing all of the Wilton quarries at some point.
Having been to the quarry and talked to some of the shooting community I gained an understanding of their hopes to improve. They did not treat climbers in a negative way and were a friendly lot. They do have a reasonable right to improve their facilities, They are the land owners, their members pay to use the quarry
Its sad but I do expect abusive replies because am capable of understanding the whole picture, I'm slightly ashamed by the ignorance shown to anyone who is not aggressively against the gun club... the quarry is shared, we ultimately rely on goodwill, why are people trying to mess this up.
Steve
In reply to bigste:
I've read most of the comments on this board, the overwhelming concern of climbers is access to the walls of the crag and to the quarry on the days agreed in the deed of covenant which was a condition of the sale of the quarry from UU.
A solution which suits both parties has been bounced around a bit on the forum(moving the container to the car park). Hopefully that will satisfy all parties.
I don't think the comments have been anti-shooting, just pro-sharing.
I speak to the shooters whenever they are at the quarry, I've never had a real problem with them. I accept that the quarry belongs to them, and that they have the right to use their own facility.
The fact that climbers (who are a significant user group) were not consulted in any form, about the works hasn't helped. Neither has scratching climbing days off the sign at the entrance, and shooting the walls behind the targets.
If my tone appears aggressive, it isn't intended to be.
I've read most of the comments on this board, the overwhelming concern of climbers is access to the walls of the crag and to the quarry on the days agreed in the deed of covenant which was a condition of the sale of the quarry from UU.
A solution which suits both parties has been bounced around a bit on the forum(moving the container to the car park). Hopefully that will satisfy all parties.
I don't think the comments have been anti-shooting, just pro-sharing.
I speak to the shooters whenever they are at the quarry, I've never had a real problem with them. I accept that the quarry belongs to them, and that they have the right to use their own facility.
The fact that climbers (who are a significant user group) were not consulted in any form, about the works hasn't helped. Neither has scratching climbing days off the sign at the entrance, and shooting the walls behind the targets.
If my tone appears aggressive, it isn't intended to be.
In reply to GeoffM:
I am often criticised for being over generous, it's just my nature. I'm the kind of guy who would share his last crust with a stranger, even a shooter. Too bad if that offends you [all of you?]. I'll bow out and leave you to your.....well, whatever it is, it has little appeal to me
> The numbers climbing and the numbers shooting makes the ratio bout right
> There aren't many places in Bolton to climb equal to W3
> Especially if you have no transport and of school age
> So as I suspect you laid on your back put your legs in the air
> and only a few tickled your belly.
> So from now in I refuse to have a battle of wits with
> someone who has no ammunition
I am often criticised for being over generous, it's just my nature. I'm the kind of guy who would share his last crust with a stranger, even a shooter. Too bad if that offends you [all of you?]. I'll bow out and leave you to your.....well, whatever it is, it has little appeal to me
In reply to top cat:
and those of us who care about fairness, continued and shared access to Wilton 3 bid you farewell.
don't hurry back.
and those of us who care about fairness, continued and shared access to Wilton 3 bid you farewell.
don't hurry back.
In reply to bigste:
There is a long history with shooters and climbers in 2 3 and 4
All have been reasonable--- not best of mates but we've got on.
This issue is about placing a building elsewhere.
Since the sale consultation has been sparce.There are a few shooters who do want us out and want it all to themselves.
There have been issues and happenings behind the scenes that not many are aware of and they have generally been resolved.
I have been climbing in the quarries for over 30 years and only been shot at on one occasion and that was a climbing night, so not bad really in all that time
Dont always take things at face to face value, their is more going on
There is a long history with shooters and climbers in 2 3 and 4
All have been reasonable--- not best of mates but we've got on.
This issue is about placing a building elsewhere.
Since the sale consultation has been sparce.There are a few shooters who do want us out and want it all to themselves.
There have been issues and happenings behind the scenes that not many are aware of and they have generally been resolved.
I have been climbing in the quarries for over 30 years and only been shot at on one occasion and that was a climbing night, so not bad really in all that time
Dont always take things at face to face value, their is more going on
In reply to GeoffM:
For your records, I have sent over my objections to the building works at Wilton 3.
Thanks,
Will
For your records, I have sent over my objections to the building works at Wilton 3.
Thanks,
Will
In reply to StewartBradshaw:
Hi, I was in the quarry a few weeks ago, talking to the gun club guys, they told me what was being done, it didn't offend me I didn't see any impact on access.
It was my understanding that this proposed container was to be placed immediately behind the shelter they have erected. a good distance from the wall.
I asked if they were altering the ground against the wall and was assured they were not doing anything to this area.
Your article states they are placing this new container against the wall, Is this accurate?. anyway I am firm believer we will all be happier working together.. goodnight .
Hi, I was in the quarry a few weeks ago, talking to the gun club guys, they told me what was being done, it didn't offend me I didn't see any impact on access.
It was my understanding that this proposed container was to be placed immediately behind the shelter they have erected. a good distance from the wall.
I asked if they were altering the ground against the wall and was assured they were not doing anything to this area.
Your article states they are placing this new container against the wall, Is this accurate?. anyway I am firm believer we will all be happier working together.. goodnight .
In reply to bigste:
The documents submitted for the planning application do not include a recent or accurate topo of the site. The size of the container is not specified.
with the plans, as submitted, you could park a London bus behind the firing shelter. They probably won't, but could.
As mentioned in an earlier reply the ground behind the firing shelter is not on the same level as the ground next to the wall. There is a difference of around 1.5m so this will either need to be excavated or built up in order to put the container down on a level surface.
I agree, it does help to work together, that is the purpose of this thread.To get our collective voice heard, and work with the club to ensure fair access for all user groups.
The fact that the conversation is being had, is testament that the thread is serving its purpose.
without this conversation nobody would have even known, let alone had any input into the work at the quarry.
The documents submitted for the planning application do not include a recent or accurate topo of the site. The size of the container is not specified.
with the plans, as submitted, you could park a London bus behind the firing shelter. They probably won't, but could.
As mentioned in an earlier reply the ground behind the firing shelter is not on the same level as the ground next to the wall. There is a difference of around 1.5m so this will either need to be excavated or built up in order to put the container down on a level surface.
I agree, it does help to work together, that is the purpose of this thread.To get our collective voice heard, and work with the club to ensure fair access for all user groups.
The fact that the conversation is being had, is testament that the thread is serving its purpose.
without this conversation nobody would have even known, let alone had any input into the work at the quarry.
In reply to StewartBradshaw:
Stewart, the dimensions of the container are given in the Proposed Structures document which accompanies the application as 2400 wide, 12200 long and 2500 high (I presume the units are mm).
HTH
> The size of the container is not specified.
Stewart, the dimensions of the container are given in the Proposed Structures document which accompanies the application as 2400 wide, 12200 long and 2500 high (I presume the units are mm).
HTH
In reply to GeoffM:
So is the main issue the distance of the container from the walls? If so how far is it from the walls and how far do we want it from the walls?
So is the main issue the distance of the container from the walls? If so how far is it from the walls and how far do we want it from the walls?
In reply to sjc:
Here is a link to some photos of Wilton 3 most of which were taken a couple of days ago.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kn73wvwalvl9rmu/T-lh__jPHr
I have had my crayons out and marked up one of the photos showing what I (think)the approximate location of the container will be in relation to the wall behind it. For me it will be too close. Particularly if it will involve excavating back towards the wall.
There are also some photos of the rappel wall area which is now pitted with gunshots, many of which are fresh, these were also taken a couple of days ago.
If it's not the gun club doing this then we need to know who is? There are some photos of shot cans on the ground behind the shooting shelter. Who shot those? were they on top of the backstop or in the sand? would a mystery shooter bother to collect them and put them in the bin behind the firing point afterwards?
In any case I've put enough 2p's into this conversation to sink a battleship.
I'm out.
Here is a link to some photos of Wilton 3 most of which were taken a couple of days ago.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kn73wvwalvl9rmu/T-lh__jPHr
I have had my crayons out and marked up one of the photos showing what I (think)the approximate location of the container will be in relation to the wall behind it. For me it will be too close. Particularly if it will involve excavating back towards the wall.
There are also some photos of the rappel wall area which is now pitted with gunshots, many of which are fresh, these were also taken a couple of days ago.
If it's not the gun club doing this then we need to know who is? There are some photos of shot cans on the ground behind the shooting shelter. Who shot those? were they on top of the backstop or in the sand? would a mystery shooter bother to collect them and put them in the bin behind the firing point afterwards?
In any case I've put enough 2p's into this conversation to sink a battleship.
I'm out.
In reply to StewartBradshaw:
Objection sent.
Well done Stew! Can't wait to climb orange wall with you.
Objection sent.
Well done Stew! Can't wait to climb orange wall with you.
An update from me on this morning’s meeting with the gun club. I met with Steve Ashton (Gun Club committee member looking after the works) and Tony Lang (the architect) today on site. Firstly, the planning diagram is quite misleading as it shows the buildings considerably closer to the face than they actually are, so there’s more space available than we initially thought. As the club were under pressure of time to get the plans in within 28days and they have limited funds, they just used an outline from an OS map to give an idea of where the buildings would be, rather than pay for a full survey to accurately place everything they want to do. This is resulted in the buildings looking closer to the crag than they actually are.
The Gun Club want to keep the container next to the firing point as they have a disabled member who would find it difficult to get to the toilets it will house if it was placed in the car park area. However, the Gun Club immediately suggested that they could put two smaller containers in with the one nearest the crag pulled back so it butts right up to the firing point shelter. This would mean that there’s at least a 5m gap between any structure and the rock face, and more than that for most of it. Providing this change is made to the planning proposal, I’m confident that the development won’t have an impact on climbers.
The Gun Club are planning to cancel their existing application for planning permission and resubmit with the new design, clearly showing where the containers would be situated. All in all, this is a great outcome for everyone – climbers will still be able to climb as before on the Orange Wall area without risk of injury or being obstructed from belaying, and the shooters will still be able to have their classroom and toilets. There’s also a possibility of the toilets being available to use by climbers if/when they are built.
Whilst we we’re there, I also raised the issue of bullet marks on Rappel Wall. Having been shown how the range is run, it’s clear that these are not being caused by members of the club. They have very strict rules concerning where they can shoot and no shots are allowed to be fired above the sand pit that forms the range back stop. If a member were to shoot over this they would be immediately thrown out of the club as it would cause a considerable risk of ricochet and injury to other shooters. The club also has a strict rule about clearing up spent brass from the firing points once they have finished and when we arrived this morning, lots of used rounds were lying about. This is a serious problem for the club as people are using the range illegally and they are struggling to find who it is. What is happening is that these illegal shooters are firing at cans placed on top of the back stop and these bullets are then impacting on Rappel Wall and creating the chips. The club are doing everything they can to stop this from happening, but considering the quarry is empty for several days every week it’s hard for them to police. If climber see people shooting in there without red flags raised, or firing at cans placed on top of the backstop rather than in the sandy part, they should call the police as the shooters will be using the site illegally and it is classed as armed trespass – the police will take this very seriously.
Finally, the issue of ‘Mondays’ having being scratched out from the list of days when climbing is permitted on the entry sign was raised. The club were under the impression that climbers had agreed to allow the club to shoot there on Mondays due to confusion with Wilton 2 & 4 having an additional day of shooting. I pointed out that there was a legal covenant granting access for Mondays, as well as the other climbing days and this wasn’t something the Gun Club we’re aware of. I’ve now sent a copy of the deeds with the covenant in it to Steve so hopefully this issue is on the way to being resolved. I’m now on holiday for Dec, back in the office in the New Year so will be taking up the climbing days issue with Steve again then.
All in all, it was a pretty positive meeting, and we agreed that there’s a need for more communication between the BMC and the Gun Club to help stop these sorts of issues cropping up again in future.
Hopefully all that makes sense
Cheers,
Rob
The Gun Club want to keep the container next to the firing point as they have a disabled member who would find it difficult to get to the toilets it will house if it was placed in the car park area. However, the Gun Club immediately suggested that they could put two smaller containers in with the one nearest the crag pulled back so it butts right up to the firing point shelter. This would mean that there’s at least a 5m gap between any structure and the rock face, and more than that for most of it. Providing this change is made to the planning proposal, I’m confident that the development won’t have an impact on climbers.
The Gun Club are planning to cancel their existing application for planning permission and resubmit with the new design, clearly showing where the containers would be situated. All in all, this is a great outcome for everyone – climbers will still be able to climb as before on the Orange Wall area without risk of injury or being obstructed from belaying, and the shooters will still be able to have their classroom and toilets. There’s also a possibility of the toilets being available to use by climbers if/when they are built.
Whilst we we’re there, I also raised the issue of bullet marks on Rappel Wall. Having been shown how the range is run, it’s clear that these are not being caused by members of the club. They have very strict rules concerning where they can shoot and no shots are allowed to be fired above the sand pit that forms the range back stop. If a member were to shoot over this they would be immediately thrown out of the club as it would cause a considerable risk of ricochet and injury to other shooters. The club also has a strict rule about clearing up spent brass from the firing points once they have finished and when we arrived this morning, lots of used rounds were lying about. This is a serious problem for the club as people are using the range illegally and they are struggling to find who it is. What is happening is that these illegal shooters are firing at cans placed on top of the back stop and these bullets are then impacting on Rappel Wall and creating the chips. The club are doing everything they can to stop this from happening, but considering the quarry is empty for several days every week it’s hard for them to police. If climber see people shooting in there without red flags raised, or firing at cans placed on top of the backstop rather than in the sandy part, they should call the police as the shooters will be using the site illegally and it is classed as armed trespass – the police will take this very seriously.
Finally, the issue of ‘Mondays’ having being scratched out from the list of days when climbing is permitted on the entry sign was raised. The club were under the impression that climbers had agreed to allow the club to shoot there on Mondays due to confusion with Wilton 2 & 4 having an additional day of shooting. I pointed out that there was a legal covenant granting access for Mondays, as well as the other climbing days and this wasn’t something the Gun Club we’re aware of. I’ve now sent a copy of the deeds with the covenant in it to Steve so hopefully this issue is on the way to being resolved. I’m now on holiday for Dec, back in the office in the New Year so will be taking up the climbing days issue with Steve again then.
All in all, it was a pretty positive meeting, and we agreed that there’s a need for more communication between the BMC and the Gun Club to help stop these sorts of issues cropping up again in future.
Hopefully all that makes sense
Cheers,
Rob
In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:
That all sounds good and totally reasonable to me, thanks Rob. And I have to say it's not really a surprise that it's illegal shooters making the bullet marks etc. I hope they take the full force of one of those ricochets. That or a PC's taser or baton or something...
And thanks Stewart B (and others) for your earlier efforts.
That all sounds good and totally reasonable to me, thanks Rob. And I have to say it's not really a surprise that it's illegal shooters making the bullet marks etc. I hope they take the full force of one of those ricochets. That or a PC's taser or baton or something...
And thanks Stewart B (and others) for your earlier efforts.
In reply to GeoffM:
Thanks for this update Rob, very useful!
Admins - could Robs most recent post be added to the news item to update it, so new readers don't have to scroll to the bottom of the comments page to gain the update?
Thank you very much!
Thanks for this update Rob, very useful!
Admins - could Robs most recent post be added to the news item to update it, so new readers don't have to scroll to the bottom of the comments page to gain the update?
Thank you very much!
In reply to GeoffM:
You lot need to open your eyes. There's a perfectly decent quarry that can be seen from Wiltons and the place is totally overgrown and unused. All you need is a strimmer, agent orange, ice axe, crow bar, spade, pick, wire brush, etc! The place would scrub up in no time with a bit of effort. If one route was cleaned, taking a couple of hours tops, by everyone who has objected to that planning app, we'd have a new venue in no time!
You lot need to open your eyes. There's a perfectly decent quarry that can be seen from Wiltons and the place is totally overgrown and unused. All you need is a strimmer, agent orange, ice axe, crow bar, spade, pick, wire brush, etc! The place would scrub up in no time with a bit of effort. If one route was cleaned, taking a couple of hours tops, by everyone who has objected to that planning app, we'd have a new venue in no time!
Post edited at 20:39
In reply to The Fox:
Doesn't sound like it - Egerton's hardly undeveloped and last time I was there, a lot of the undergrowth had been cut back.
Doesn't sound like it - Egerton's hardly undeveloped and last time I was there, a lot of the undergrowth had been cut back.
In reply to Rob Dyer, BMC:
Well done Rob and thanks for the update. Bet you didn't expect so much stuff on the subject of toilets this year . It also shows irrespective of the very sensible planning objections how the BMC talking to the club direct is the most likely to result in a quick and sensible compromise. It also shows how we as climbers need to be careful about speculation (eg re the bullet marks on Rappel Wall). Given how important this venue is locally surely is it possible climbers should be able to spot those who are shooting illegally here?
Well done Rob and thanks for the update. Bet you didn't expect so much stuff on the subject of toilets this year . It also shows irrespective of the very sensible planning objections how the BMC talking to the club direct is the most likely to result in a quick and sensible compromise. It also shows how we as climbers need to be careful about speculation (eg re the bullet marks on Rappel Wall). Given how important this venue is locally surely is it possible climbers should be able to spot those who are shooting illegally here?
In reply to Offwidth:
If the shooting club don't know who's shooting illegally it will be hard for climbers to recognize legitimate shooters.
There is a lot more damage on the wall when I visited last week compared to when I was there in June, which suggests its a fairly regular occurance. The shots are grouped rather than just all over the place.
It needs looking at whoever is doing the damage, if there are a regular group if people shooting here illegally then something needs to be done. How to do that is a bit of a problem.
If the shooting club don't know who's shooting illegally it will be hard for climbers to recognize legitimate shooters.
There is a lot more damage on the wall when I visited last week compared to when I was there in June, which suggests its a fairly regular occurance. The shots are grouped rather than just all over the place.
It needs looking at whoever is doing the damage, if there are a regular group if people shooting here illegally then something needs to be done. How to do that is a bit of a problem.
In reply to StewartBradshaw:
Yep Egerton. It's not in need of developing but certainly needs cleaning and bush whacking. I went in a couple of weeks ago to assess the effort required and it is pretty overgrown. It doesn't take long for the ferns and brambles to take hold. I did wonder if the shooting club would like to share ownership. With their penchant for earthworks they'd have the place sorted out in a weekend!
Yep Egerton. It's not in need of developing but certainly needs cleaning and bush whacking. I went in a couple of weeks ago to assess the effort required and it is pretty overgrown. It doesn't take long for the ferns and brambles to take hold. I did wonder if the shooting club would like to share ownership. With their penchant for earthworks they'd have the place sorted out in a weekend!
In reply to doris:
Sorry Doris but your out of touch
That place ... As good as can be... and is. Has been cleaned to death
and still doesn't get the traffic it deserves. I should know I lived below it for 15 years and played a part in its initial development
Sorry Doris but your out of touch
That place ... As good as can be... and is. Has been cleaned to death
and still doesn't get the traffic it deserves. I should know I lived below it for 15 years and played a part in its initial development
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