UKC

Hi Guys - After some advice. Please bear with me as this will prob be long winded.
One of our dogs (Greyhound) was attacked last sunday by a Lab (Yes a lab), which resulted in a 16cm tear in his groin area and a visit to the emergency vets. £293 quid later we got him home. Unfortunately, the wound is in an awkward area, and hasnt healed well, stitches pulled etc, so another vist to vet yesterday to get sorted (Another £160)

The attack happened, because 2 dogs (both labs) had escaped from their owners garden. One just barked, and the other just ran and attacked unprovoked. I was pretty pissed off at the time as I had my 1 year old boy in his buggy with me. Luckily he was totally fine. It turned out these dogs were being looked after by 2 kids, and both parents (were in bed) - i eventually got hold of the father, who was symapthetic, and apologetic etc. I explained that I was heading to the vets and would be in touch - I wasnt happy because I had my boy with me etc. (I was raging) He then asked If I had insurance. (Which I do), but I told him i would not be claiming.

Phoned him later that day, explained that I was expecting him to pay the vets bill. He again pushed the insurance line. I told him no, I wasnt entertaining it. He said he would phone my vets on the monday.

Now, over a week later, he still hasnt paid. The vets spoke to him on the phone and agreed to let him pay in instalments. He made some bull excuse about phoning them back - He hasnt. They have phoned him yesterday and given him until tomoro to pay bill in full. It also turns out this dog has previous for attacking other dogs.

We've spoken to the local dog warden who is keen to speak to them.

However, come tomoro if he hasnt paid - The vets will prob ask us to settle the bill.

Does this then become a police matter? Or am i completely wasting my time?

Cheers for bearing with me!

In reply to drunken monkey:

Sounds like the dogs were Dangerously out of control. I would Leave that Aspect in the Hands of the local dog warden. Theyll Know if any Prosecution or action needs to be Taken.

As for vets bills, i would think either small claims court, or your or their dog insurance, if they have it.

In reply to Choss:

From the way he is pushing "Is your dog insured" - All the time, I dont think he has.

The most worrying thing really is that its his kids that walk those dogs. The kids could end up trying to split a scrap up and get injured.

I want him to accept some responsibility for his irresponsible behaviour, which appears he is trying to dodge.

In reply to Choss:

Claim on your insurance and let your insurers pursue him? They will have the clout and experience. You might loose your NCD (if there is one)but that will be a lot cheaper than trying to recoup it out of him if he proves to be a straw man, not to mention the stress and hassle of taking him to court

In reply to Trangia:

Hadnt thought of that mate. Is it even possible? Shall give Tesco Insurance a call.

In reply to drunken monkey:

Yes, it is. Google 'subrogation'. Though for that sort of sum I'd doubt your insurers will bother.

Sounds like an offence has been committed to me - having a dog out of control in a public place (at least a pavement/road) is an offence. Whether you contact the police and/or they'd be interested is another matter.

jcm

In reply to drunken monkey:

If you have legal protection it might be - same as car insurance. With cars that is why I always go fully comp with legal protection, as it removes most of the worry to be able to just throw it to your insurer and let them sort.

Otherwise you might have to sue yourself in the small claims court.

Neil

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Well this dog most certainly was out of control. It was off the lead. My dog was on a lead. Unprovoked attack.

And I had my wee boy in the pram, which pissed me off the most about the whole thing.

In reply to drunken monkey:

What is the point of having insurance you don't use? If you want the owner pay to make a point then that's your call. I'd be pretty upset and reluctant to pay if having agreed to settle the bill I found I'd subsequently been reported to the council and was probably going to lose my dog.

For an injury rather than a long term illness it's unlikely to significantly increase your premium.

Chase him, pay yourself or make a claim on your insurance, charge him the excess if you want, it's your choice really. If you want to report it to the Police then give them a call see what they say, worst they can do if they're not interested is fob you off or pass you on to another service.

Hope your hound is healing ok now and isn't too traumatised.

jk

In reply to drunken monkey:

As said above, if he doesn't pay up, pay thriough your insurer,let them know of the circumstances and let them go for him. It will cost you your excess in the first instance, but if they are successful then they will recover your excess too.

Set the dog warden on him too.

In reply to jkarran:

The vets recommended we contact the Dog Warden as he is reluctant to pay. They are now quite keen to chat with him over his arrangements and why he leaves his children in charge of a dog that attacks other dogs.

Our hound is ok cheers. He's a big dog 32kg and has always been quite timid. We dont know his previous racing history etc.

His groin/leg is in a right mess.

In reply to jkarran:



No, but it will potentially render any future claims for a related problem invalid.

In reply to drunken monkey:

Your vets have agreed to pursue the bill with the fella. Legally, I suspect that by doing this, they have effectively taken on the debt, and it is now up to them to pursue it.

Go to police, get an incident no, as even if this does not gain you anything, it is likely to happen again to someone else, and it will remain on file.

Otherwise, small claims court. Issue matey (if he fails to pay the vet and you do,) with a letter, with delivery recorded, saying that you are pursing the debt and will commence legal proceedings via small claims court as of...(give him 28 days); ensure that you word it such that it reads more like an opportunity for him to pay up (plus expenses etc) now in full, but court will occur unless the bills are paid in full. Keep all copies, including those of bills. Then go for it.

I can understand your reluctance to use your own doggie insurance...by the time exclusions are added, the excess, loss of NCB.... it's not worth it unless the doglet has cost you thousands.

Sx

In reply to Sarah G:

Oh, and a huglet here from me to your doglet.

Sx

In reply to Sarah G:

wtf is a huglet or a doglet? oh dear.

In reply to drunken monkey:

I'm confused why you don't want to use your pet insurance.

I'd be very surprised if there is a NCD to be had/lost with it, I don't recall seeing any offering this when I was looking a while ago and I've yet to come across anyone who's had their pet insurance go up as a result of claiming.

It's worth checking your policy, but for all the aggro you're setting yourself up for, I'd just get the claim put in. It's done and dusted then, and you can spend your time looking after the dog. Leave the insurers to chase after the bloke and his dog.

In reply to Sarah G:

>Your vets have agreed to pursue the bill with the fella. Legally, I suspect that by doing this, they have effectively taken on the debt, and it is now up to them to pursue it.

Legally, and indeed factually, this is what we lawyers refer to in technical terms as 'utter bollocks'.

jcm

In reply to Dan_S:

Why should I pay out, up front, the best part of £500 for something that HIS dog did. Then pay an increased premium every year?

In reply to drunken monkey:

There is a new program on TV about claiming through the Small Claims Court, called "The Legaliser". It is on each morning this week at 9.15am BBC1. It covers the procedure via examples.

In reply to drunken monkey:

Like I said, I've not known anyone's premiums go up as a result of claiming off their pet insurance, so why would yours be any different?

Also, the majority of insurers will pay the vet directly, so you wouldn't actually be out of pocket, as they'd pursue the other bloke for costs and your excess.

In reply to Dan_S:

If someone drove into your car and it was clearly there fault you'd still be happy to claim on your own insurance?

mark

In reply to Dan_S:

Good point. I'm going to wait until tomorrow and see what the vets say when they call back.

Other than the initial emergency appointment last week, I've paid for all costs myself.

In reply to Pids:

I know exactly what she means

In reply to Mark Westerman:

Obviously not, I'd make a claim against the other drivers insurance, which I'd do through my own insurer.

I wouldn't ring up their insurer to pursue the claim would I? I'd ring my own and get them to do it, that's what I'm paying them for (that and mitigating any losses)

In this case, I'm suggesting to the OP he should get his insurance company to do his/the vets leg work and claim against this bloke and his dog that's caused the injury.

In reply to drunken monkey:

What's the matter with you, man? We're all guessing when the answer to most of these questions is in your insurance policy. If you can't be arsed to read it, call up the insurance company and ask them. Ditto the police.

>Or am i completely wasting my time?

Yes. And ours.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I'm glad I've wasted your precious time. Surprised that being a lawyer you havent tried to charge me a extortionate amount for it.

In reply to drunken monkey:

I'll be glad to charge you if you want, but really.

You've spent money on something you're insured against and want to know what'll happen if you claim on your insurance? Ring your ****ing insurer.

You've been attacked by a dog and you want to know if the police will be interested? Ring the ****ing police.

Next week; walking and chewing gum simultaneously.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Or the old classic - which is the best biscuit to have with a cup of tea?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Someone's having a bad day ....

In reply to Pids:


Chocolate covered Rich tea - obviously!

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Thanks for that pearler.

Your successfully coming across as a pretentious w@nker. Well done.

In reply to drunken monkey:

To be fair, he isn't being pretentious is he?

cheers
mark

In reply to Mark Westerman:

Just a w@nker then?

In reply to drunken monkey:

No, just telling it how it is. Personally, I happen to agree with JCM. You do pay people to do this stuff for you so make them earn their money instead of just trousering it. Anyway next yar, they'll just tell you that your premium's gone up becasue your lesser spotted greyhound is one year older than it was last year.

Jcm is being a knob. It doesn't take a lawyer to tell someone to ring their pet insurance. He is obviously worried about the increased premiums/excess so is trying to (at his leisure) to pursue the money directly. Not a bad idea if it saves you a wedge.

However, you need to establish if it's worth your time/effort, I imagine, on you description of the fella that it may not be. As John said in his own little way, you pick up the phone and find out.

In reply to drunken monkey: Given that it attacked your dog, has attacked dogs previously and is left in the care of children I am very surprised you haven't called the police. It semms likely to happen again, and tho' it sounds sensationalist it may be a dog, it may be a child or an adult the next time.

The dog warden is keen to speak to them - the dog warden should be doing a lot more as well. Is he really a dog warden or is he just playing?

In reply to wbo:

Dunno mate - He said he was going to pay them a visit. Left it at that.

Tomoro, if he still has not paid - I will contact my insurance. And give some more consideration into phoning 101.

I'd hate for someones kid (his or someone elses) to get injured.

In reply to drunken monkey:

It's a civil law matter between you and the owner.

Either you, the Police or the Council Dog Warden can apply for a dog control order under the Dogs Act 1870-something. Note "can", but don't have to.

Hope your dog's OK.

In reply to drunken monkey:

If it helps, I claimed on contents insurance last year and my premium didn't go up. On applying for new insurance, I was asked 'have you made more than two cliams in the past year (or might have been 3 years or something)' no other enquiry was made regarding claims. I don't know about pet insurance, but I phone the insurer and ask about it. And maybe ask the dog owner for the premium before you put the claim in...
Hope the dog's ok and kid not too traumatised!

In reply to drunken monkey:

You could ring the police and tell them that the children are being left in charge of dangerous dogs whilst their parents are in bed. What age kids are we talking about here, are they old enough to be safely left alone, were the parents drunk or something? Most responsible parents would get out of bed for a missing dog incident. Next time it could be more serious.

In reply to marsbar:

A dog which attacks another dog is not "dangerous" in the legal sense of the word, IIRC, and it's a leap of logic from a dog attacking another dog to a dog attacking a person.

In reply to Submit to Gravity:

True, mine hate dogs but loves children (couldn't eat a whole one!)

I'm more concerned for the general safety of children being left to deal with things in general than the dog situation to be honest. Depends how old they are I suppose.

In reply to marsbar:

I agree - doesn't sound like a great situation.

In reply to marsbar:

I agree - having to sort out a dog fight if you're a kid is not a good thing.

drunken monkey - I say claim on the insurance, tell them what's going on, put it in their hands. It's what you pay them for. And for what it's worth I'd be furious if someone let their known troublemaking dog attack my dog.

Hope your hound is better soon.

In reply to drunken monkey:

For my two pennys worth. If anything like this happened to me I would:
1. Write my own personal statement, recording all the facts and any quotations regarding the fella who's dog attacked you. Also include any talk between the vets and this fella. (It's amazing how facts are lost 1 - 2months along the line).
2. Speak to your insurers, their legal department may want to take it up.
3. Contact the police and report. You will get and incident number which you can add to your statement (If anything this will help in court)
4. If they don't, you can proceed through the small claims court.
Small claims courts deal with 'The balance of Probability', so with a statement etc, you should win hands down. Remember to claim for vets fees, possible increase in premiums and costs/time.
You'll get there in the end!

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Go back to bed, and start the day again. You obviously fell out of the wrong side of the bed yesterday! Stop being such a Grinch, John. It isn't pretty or clever.

Sx

In reply to drunken monkey:


You could try contacting the owner of the attacking dog and tell them you're contacting the police and ask them if they've paid the vets bill yet?

In reply to Timmd:


There's not really any proper way of doing that though.

Either it's 'pay up or I'm reporting you' which is bordering on extortion and certainly implies you don't consider the offence you're reporting serious enough to report except as leverage in a negotiation.

Or 'pay up, oh and I'm reporting you' which achieves nothing but increased animosity.

I'd give the guy a call, explain the vet is chasing me for payment and ask has he decided not to pay. Find out what the situation is and/or prompt him to act. Actually I'd have given the vet my insurance details and leave them to do what they're paid for. That's me, I dislike hassle and confrontation.

jk

In reply to drunken monkey:



Your view as to whether or not to report the attack so as to reduce the chances of 'someone's kid' being injured is determined by whether otr not the dog's owner hands over some money?

I'm sorry your pooch was hurt and you had a difficult experience, but why not just make the insurance claim and make the report?

In reply to jkarran:


Good points, I can tends to 'see red' on a point of principle at times and make things worse, but I generally dislike confrontation as well.

If I had pet insurance I'd probably use them if my dog got injured.