UKC

The best solution for climbing vertical sections in a relaxed and safe way. This is the first technical ice axe with two identical, adjustable, and very comfortable grips. High-end performance in the steepest dry-tooling routes. Safe for the most difficult moves. Ideal for dry tooling and competition, but also provides excellent performance on cascades and mixed vertical terrain. Weight: 612 gr

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/news.php?id=5957

In reply to UKC Gear:

Is it CE or UIAA tested? I highly doubt the strength of such a compromised shaft.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:


Why? Do you have some kind of expertise in metallurgy or ice tool design? Have you seen the video of Ramon cranking M11 at White Goods with his? If you haven't, here's a spoiler - they don't break.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Bloody strong, I can tell you that. Watch this video if you are not convinced

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhaxV3gTVHs&list=UUA1zYZe6SsX5l1B5svx-A...

In reply to TobyA:

Ok, how about instead of replying aggressively with simply anecdotal evidence, you show me some demonstrable proof of it's strength?

I'm quite happy to be shown my doubts are completely unfounded as that design does look very interesting and functional. That being said however, when in a spec list it doesn't mention the almost universal rating given to gear to inform climbers what can be expected of it, and the design is vastly different to most modern T-rated axes with very thin joints and huge holes in the shaft, I don't think it's unreasonable to question the specifics of a piece of gear that may serve as a lifesaver.

But well, if it looks strong to you I'll definitely rely on it with my life.

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Nice climbing mate, I think your biceps have a much more likely chance of breaking an axe than mine!

In reply to UKC Gear:
It certainly looks sick. Although, I expected it would be lighter with that truss design. Ergo, I won't upgrade just yet

In reply to UKC Gear:
I used the Cryo's and the old Cryo Pro's all last winter for work, mixed stuff and dry tooling. Apart from being really great and well thought out tools, they are strong! They have taken the wear of Scottish winter much much better than some of the previous tools I've used, tools that are 'flagship' tools from major brands.. I have a pair of the new cryo 2's and so far have just used them for tooling and they seem solid and well built as ever. The tools and picks are CE rated.

see link for tools in use - vimeo.com/60509934

Hope that helps, Paddy

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I was just interested in why you "highly doubt" the strength of them, or why they would produce a "compromised shaft" design?

I knew they've been around for a number of years and highly regarded by excellent ice climbers, and that the shaft design isn't so different from the I beam style of the last generation of DMM tools.

In reply to UKC Gear:

Excellent for dry tooling, hmmmm is Kinder in yet?

In reply to Beat me to it!:


Haven't you heard? It is in...

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=570547&v=1#x7584611

In reply to TobyA:

I think DMM dropped the ball by ditching the forged shaft to make a Nomic instead. Shame

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Hi Ramon, I remember the Cryo Pro being a good bit longer than the Nomic, is this still the case?

In reply to ColdWill:

No, the cryo 2's are more nomic size, shorter than the old cryo pro's...

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

So you're happier because you can't see how thin the metal is on a tubular shaft, let alone the way the head and handle are held on with a rivet or two and a spot of glue?

In reply to nniff:

Nomics are fairly solid, but if you put them through their paces they do fall apart. My head started to come loose, hinging on the rivets. It's the problem with modern axes, most manufacturers just follow the market-proven construction which is why everyone is copying the Nomic shape with tubular construction. Ok, BD uses hydroformed shaft, but it's the same principle. They mass-market products to make money. E-Climbs margins are ridiculously small because it's a made really well, designed by ice climbers for ice climbers, just look a the range their do, axes and ice screws, that's all! And they are bloody good. They are super niche, that's why they are not well-known.

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Have you used the Cryo 2s on ice yet? I'm in the market for some new tools, and was weighing up the Cryo Alps agaist the BD Cobras, but if the Cryo 2s are as good an all rounder as the nomics I might consider them instead

In reply to nniff:

No, I'm happy because tubular axes on sale are all visibly certified to meet a particular strength standard I can understand and count on. As stated, if this axe met those standards, or exceeded them, I would consider buying one as it looks a clever design However the fact they chose to omit it from their product specs (from what I can see here and on their website) made up the large part of my doubt.

As I said, happy to be shown my doubts are unfounded.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Just looking at the design, the whole single piece shaft/head/handle looks inherently stronger than a standard Nomic and Fusion type construction. Certainly more like the Grivel Master Alloy in construction and they are solid and if they climb ice half as well as them and the handle is bigger I might well be jumping on the E Climb bus.
I don't think you should get too hung up on a piece of certification, plenty of certified equipment fails in climbing all the time, remember those B rated picks of a certain company that keep failing and the obvious in retrospect Nomic handle recall.

In reply to ColdWill:

I just asked E-Climb about "T" and "B" rating. I've been climbing for 20 year and still don't know what that means, but it's obviously important to some. Are BD picks rated at all? Because they DO break, and a lot! I can tell you that I tried my best to break the e-climb tools, torquing sideways, with my full-body weight on it, bouncing it and yanking it, and they don't break. I couldn't say that of other tools or picks.

In reply to nufkin:

IN reply to Nufkin, no I haven't used on ice yet, will do in two weeks time and report back. The are supposed to be the answer to Nomic, but better. So far in the mixed/drytooling terrain the do better. Now it will be down on how the swing on different ice terrain.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Got word from E-Climb, all axes and picks are "T" rated, it's marked on the axes

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Also reads on the axe-pdf, if the the person asking would have bothered to read it.

In reply to Ramon Marin:

I'm very happy to be wrong. Though I did just express DOUBT in the form of a question.

And yes BD picks are rated. Their Vipers for example come with B rated picks for ice, but can be bought with optional Titan picks for mixed.

As previously stated, I don't think I stand much chance of breaking either, though it's comforting to know what I have.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:


Plenty of people have done and continue to although oddly it seems to be a North American problem and not here. I've bent BD picks but not broken.

In reply to TobyA:

Odd but true. I never saw a pick break anywhere except NA where I saw six break in a season. I remember on here someone posted a photo of one broken in Norway but that's it as far as I recall.

In reply to TobyA:

My friend has broken a bunch of Laser picks here in Finland. He now uses Titans filed to the shape of Laser for ice...

In reply to HeMa:

I did wonder if potentially it was colder temps than Scotland normally gets that does it, but I've battered two pairs on laser picks now for seasons in Finland, on my reactors and vipers, and no problem. Who was it Henkka and do they mix climb a lot? People in the US/Canada report snapping them ice climbing which seems odd.

In reply to TobyA:

I've bent a laser pick by about 5 degrees mixed climbing in Scotland. Lasers are awesome on ice but not great on mixed!

In reply to TobyA:

Well Tapsa from Rollomixed has destroyed a bunch, and he's into mixed...

But I was actually talking about Sami from Vaasa. As far as I know, he used Cobras and broke a bunch of them pics solely ice climbing...

In reply to HeMa: I could well imagine Tapsa getting through quite a few! I remember Toni L telling me about his mate who managed to break two Cobras whilst they were ice climbing in Austria - not blades, but the actual tools. So perhaps some people are just heavy on gear!

In reply to Mr Fuller:

One of mine has a slight bend to it like that too, but it doesn't actually seem to make any difference when using it. Haven't replaced it yet.

In reply to TobyA:
I use to think it was the cold or some weird hard ice thing as I used them on my old Fusion's for years with no problems and my old Cobras as well fifteen years ago. Then I went to NA and they were dropping like flies, I was using Grivels by then and had no issues. It didn't seem to be a cold thing though as I remember one breaking on a nice warm ice climbing day, my mate brought his second up as we sat in the sun and voila, he had a broken pick. And then there are people who never break them, it was common but inconsistent in that respect. Not sure it's been sorted either the only problem is the new ones look like the old ones.

http://www.gravsports-ice.com/icethreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number...

no sign of a Stinger pick as mentioned in the link but there is a new Fusion Ice pick, hmm.

In reply to TobyA:

I know from someone who's been inside the factory and met with the BD team about possibly producing a product that this someone was developing. BD picks are laser cut, which is cheap, but the heat creates tiny fractures which makes the picks break when it's very cold. They know about it, of course, but they rather deal with the returns and complains tan making a better pick, because they are a public company and what counts is the bottom line and profitability rules.

E-Climb picks are fret-cut at a high pressure cold water jet that doesn't alter any of the chrome mobildene properties and makes it more resistant. It's very expensive process, and only E-Climb can afford do it because they sell only online so they can cut the middle man and therefore making savings that are invested in quality of production. All axes are made in Barcelona under the watchful eye of the owners, and they are very obsessive ice climbers. The picks are also the best design.

You have the biggest range of picks as well, one for ice, one for mixed and one for extreme drytooling and comps. The designs are amazing, great teeth design that needs no customizing for obsessive nerds like myself, the design is just bang on. The ice one is the only pick in the market to have the front beveled with a narrower hardened nose to facilitate penetration, which is amazing in brittle ice, nowhere near as much ice shatters and less dinner-plating. Really expensive to manufacture.

Again, these guys are not making a lot of money, and don't need to keep shareholders happy, but they produce the best gear out there for people like you and me that love ice climbing just like the do themselves.

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Sold.

In reply to Ramon Marin: I love the look of their glove-leash-thingy, looks the perfect thing for people like me who understand all the advantages of leashless climbing but still find on steep ice I climb better and harder and with wrist loops!

In reply to TobyA:

It's a very neat idea, I've got a pair. They fit very well, But I haven't used them outdoors so I can't comment much on it. The lanyards are very neat design too, and cheap, but don't have a swivel.

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Oh cool. So they fit on the Cyro2 as well as the slightly less radically shaped tool too?

In reply to TobyA:

I'm not sure, I can check later at home. I know it works Cryo Alpin very well, but Cryo2 being specifically designed for leashless I doubt they would work there

In reply to TobyA:

Sorry Toby, the glove/leash doesn't work on the new Cryo2, it's just for leashess climbing

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Well that makes sense, but they look good for the other model.

In reply to Ramon Marin:
Loose Nomic head, check.