UKC

Can anyone help and put my mind at rest or muddle it even more?

I have tried to get a decent fit with my Phantom guide boots and a toe bailed crampon for the last couple of seasons now and after crampon problems again last weekend I'm about to chuck in the towel and buy some basket type crampons.

I am not really interested in how this bail on this crampon fits as I have tried most options and in my punterish opinion not very many fit well apart from the dart.

I am more interested in what are the advantages and disadvantages between the both fittings are please?

cheers

Gaz

In reply to Gazlynn:

Newmatic will easily go on to the phantom or whatever boot you replace it with.

It provides a good secure fit and there's nothing else really that bothers me so long as it does both of those things.

In reply to Gazlynn:

wire bail is lower profile and some say a tighter fit. also packs smaller.
basket is easier with gloves, more bombproof and fits as tight as wire i think. packs bulkier. maybe protects the toe of the boot.

if toe profile is the bigger matter then wire wins. if ease of putting them on matters more then baskets.
i have both and use wire for fidgety ice and mixed, and usually simply bbecause G20s have no option. for standard alpine i like baskets for their bomberness.
ive also done both in the other, and honestly feel it makes little difference 90% of the time.

if baskets are all that works there will be close to zero problems with the choice.

In reply to Gazlynn:

I have phantom guides, and use G14's, but I had to replace the standard bail, with a "Narrow" bail, and change the bars to asymmetrics - you get both these from Needlesports in Keswick easily enough.

Hope that helps

In reply to Gazlynn:


For the basket you don't have to clean out the slot in the toe and the problems I've had with toe bails popping out of the slot can't happen (may be down to the curly bail on my G14's, replaced with G20 bail and had no probs so far...)

Wire bails are fiddly to get on as the groove needs cleaned out and in my experience pop off at times.

I'm thinking of getting these: http://needlesports.com/Catalogue/Winter-Climbing-Equipment/Crampons/Crampo... if the G20 bails pop off.

In reply to All:
Thanks for your replies.

Jonnie3430

I've been looking at those and Needlesports say they are expecting them in the next couple of weeks.

I'm just hoping Grivel / Mountain boot company can get them to the shops for this winter.

Although part of me is just is that scunnered with it I just might bite the bullet and get some newmatic basket type poons.

cheers

Gaz

In reply to Gazlynn:


Or just wait until they break, seen the price of new ones?

In reply to Gazlynn:

I think the newmatic fitting is better for numerous reasons:
- Quicker to put on
- more robust to staying on
- if well fitted less movement of boot without crampon, bail bars always move a bit as the bar can often flex a bit as well as move a bit side to side.
- fixed front point protrusion, with crampomatic style crampons the front point protrusion reduces with time as the sole rubber wears down and the toe bail bar bends (although with bd crampons the bail bar is so burly I doubt it bends, however grivel ones definitely do!).

In reply to jonnie3430:


I hear you

The thing is do I spend £20 + on a converter type bar that I have no reviews to go by and maybe will be in the shops by mid December but maybe wont be.

Or punt the crampons on ebay and cut my losses and get a pair with a basket so I can feel more confident and enjoy what little winter / ice climbing I can get out and do.

cheers

Gaz

In reply to Gazlynn:

I don't think the fitting using converter bails looks quite as good, there will be a bit of side to side movement (as with crampomatics), and also the wire will likely bend a bit with use (unlike the steel posts on proper newmatics), therefore decreasing front point protrusion. How much this matters is debatable.

In reply to Gazlynn:


Offer the £20 on here for a lynx converter type bar, the crampons come with converter and wire bail, so you may persuade someone to part with theirs.

In reply to Gazlynn:

I have phantom guides and had difficulty with crampons, mostly thru the front points not pointing to the front!

Bit the bullet and bought the petal lynx crampons and swear by them. They come with crampomatic and newmatic attachments, can be adapted from mono to dual front points, and, significantly for phantom guide boots, they have 3 different positions to set up front points so are useful for many pairs of modern curved boots.

http://www.mountainleisureperth.com/petzl---lynx-crampon-5357-p.asp

In reply to Paul249:

Second petzyl Lynx. They are so very versatile, they fit my guides like a glove and I also use the baskets on my Scarpa Charmoz.

In reply to Gazlynn: phantom guides plus newmatic equals no protrusion of the front points past the front of the boots since the guides have a narrow boot. Tried G12s and my G10s in newmatic and they were no good. Best to stay with bails and get the narrow version for your poons, Needlesports can help.

In reply to Gazlynn:
I use the Petzl Lynx Newmatic binding on my Darts and have no problems at all. You can also get an extra season out of some warn Darts doing this as the Newmatic (basket) bail holds the boot further back from the front of the crampon. These Grivel versions look like a better product as they don't have the plastic bulges like the Petzl version that can get in the way with some boots like the Trango S, but if you're using Grivel Crampons you may find they are too wide for the Guides. Best to try first.
With reference to fit anyone who says Newmatic causes more movement etc is spraying crap. I believe this is what Steve House uses, so that's a thumbs up.

In reply to Gazlynn:
Got both basket (BD Serac Clip) and wire bail (Charlet Moser M10 and Petzl Dart plus used a set of Grivel 2Fs) on LS Trango Extremes, and find the wire bail gives a much better and more secure fit compared to the basket which squeaks and flexes and moves around. May however be boot/crampon combination.