UKC

Very excited - weather looking dry - so best routes at the roaches ?

In reply to Ciderslider:

Valkyrie. Sloth.

Mick

In reply to Ciderslider:

Sloth is the must do. Very exciting/intimidating, but totally fine since it's on massive holds all the way. You don't have to jam, there are jugs everywhere.

Saul's Crack is classic but unpleasant.

Rubberneck is a great HVS - quite technical. The jamming crack next door is good too while you're down there (hardest VS ever!).

Safety Net is only wee, but it's a cracking little route. Can't think of much else which is classic at safe E1. Hawkwing is an excellent E1, if slightly scary, and Dorothy's Dilemma is a classic buzz (was a total sandbag at HVS).

In reply to Ciderslider:

Agree with Jon, Safety Net is great. Would be a really good early E1. I quite liked Pebbledash this year, at least the first pitch is good. Saul's Valkyrie etc. obviously.

In reply to Ciderslider:

Jeffcoat's Buttress a good warm up, HS 5a (hard start). Saul's Crack is great and has bomber gear all the way. Valkyrie is classic, I was scared off by the Sloth (but it looks amazing). I thought Wallaby Direct had great variety and brilliant moves. Damascus Crack with the Tower finish is another good warmup - see if you can do the top out elegantly (not easy). Pebbledash is worthwhile, slightly bold (not dangerous), and low in HVS. I thought Via Dolorosa unpleasantly polished at the start and somewhat over-rated. Sifta's Quid is pants. Sure there are plenty more good lines, but I'm limiting recommendations to the best ones I've done.

In reply to Mick Ward:

Really ? Do you recon I could do sloth Mick ?

In reply to Ciderslider:

Thanks peeps for your suggestions - I'll let you know how I get on (or off

In reply to Ciderslider:


Can you climb a 5 on a steep climbing wall? Sloth really is fine, but it is intimidating.

I don't know what Mick thinks though.

In reply to Jon Stewart:


Totally agree.

< To Mark >

Do Valkyrie (which is wonderful) and lots of other stuff. If you feel good, head for The Sloth. If not, leave it for another time.

Hope you have a great couple of days.

Mick

In reply to Jon Stewart:
>

Jamming phobia or lack of reach pulling over the bulge?

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I think for your average leader the sloth is a lot harder to lead than an indoor clipup 5. It would be 5+ if bolted IMO and to climb safely (ie placing some gear as you go across he roof) its quite tricky. I know its supposed to be low in the grade, but I think for someone trying to get solid at grit HVS its not necessarily a good one to go for due to the exposure, commitment and difficulty making safe (ie having the energy to hang around and place gear).

In reply to Ciderslider:

You totally HAVE to do Crack and Corner (don't be surprised if you find this more like HS 5a), Valkyrie and Via Del Rosa. I've not done so many of the HVS climbs but if you are looking for something safe and mid grade HVS wallerby direct is a good call.

If you do pebbledash (HVS) and find it easy don't get too excited as I swear it should be mid grade VS!

Quite a lot of the HVS climbs at the roaches have shall we say a reputation for being hard in the grade!

In reply to CurlyStevo: The Sloth definitely suits some more than others. I've done about 10 HVS and it was one of the easiest (physically anyway), easier than few VS routes I've tried. I don't agree it would be 5+, just because it's over so quickly, but obviously trad and sport different beasts.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Its quite unusual for reasonably well protected HVS climbs to only be F5 if retro bolted, typically they go F5+ or higher. Anyway whatever it would be a pretty stiff F5 or a fairly straight forward F5+.

I think my point about trad leading it safely holds either way, if you run it out across the roof crack its quite a lot easier, but if you fluff the final moves up in to the crack its going to hurt when you hit the slab! To place gear midway through the roof makes this climb quite a bit harder.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Crack and Corner is HS 5a!

Pebbledash and West's Wallaby Direct are not so different adjectivally even if the former is easier at HVS.

In reply to Offwidth:
"Crack and Corner is HS 5a! "

Well I've been saying that for years, I don't think any of the guides have yet fully converged on my opinion though

I'd grade the pitches HS 5a, - , HS 4b

I don't think either pitch 1 or 3 is a soft touch at those grades. I'm sure there is some trick to it that I've missed that somehow magically makes it correct at the definitive guide grades (PS I found the hidden hold in the final pitch every time I've lead it and pitch 1 I wide bridge up)

Stevo

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Neither, it's just a horrible graunchy polished route. I reckon that jamming crack down on the third cloud is way better.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

I think it's high in the grade (just look at it!), but I also think it's safe as you'd have to be a total plonker not to place any gear in the roof and then fall off at the lip. These routes are best done when they're at your limit, and if you drive all the way up from the other end of the country I think you owe it to yourself to get on the major routes.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I can see your thinking. I think the tricky part is to know when they are at your limit of what you probably can climb. Some people seem to massively over judge and others under judge! I'm probably in the later cetegory and stuff that feels out there for me to trad lead I was probably 99% chance to get up without falling or resting!

In reply to CiderSlider:

If you do decide to go for it - try not to place cams behind the flakes as they have a tendency to break.

In reply to CurlyStevo (& any others): From the Pedestal it's 3 pieces of gear:
1) Nut in the crack on the slab.
2) Gear on the cheeseblock - sling and/or nut.
3) Large hex at the jug on the lip - 9 or 10 - obvious and quick to place - a cam would take longer.

Don't put any gear in the middle of the roof, waste of energy and rock destroying - that slot in the middle used to take a 6/7 rock size nut. You're on huge handholds in a reasonable position when you place piece number 3 and then there's just one more move to get above the roof.

In reply to Michael Hood:
yeah the piece I meant was the large hex you can place from a bomber hand jam.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

> [...]
>
> I reckon that jamming crack down on the third cloud is way better.

Everything on Third Cloud is way better. Crabbie's Crack, Rubberneck, Appaloosa, Persistence are all outstanding. Elastic Arm is merely memorable. For some reason I've never done Flower Power Arete but it's on my list. Who Needs Ready Brek isn't. An amazing collection on one small bit of rock.

In reply to Jon Stewart:


I don't think Sloth is anything like as straightforward as some make out.

First, it's intimidating as hell. Second, presuming you place the big hex near the lip, you're going to be pretty pumped for the next couple of moves (the crux). Third, at that point you either use a jam, which is wide-ish and insecure, or you go for the jugs high left, which are a big stretch away if you're pumped (or, worst option, you dither between these two alternatives). If you have a long reach or far too much stamina this might be easy, but overall E0 is fair!

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Agreed


Go for the jam, it works!

In reply to Coel Hellier:

The jugs aren't a big stretch away, if you just keep working along the flake it's just jugs jugs jugs until you're stood up. So much easier than FBD for example (but still possibly E0 for the intimidation factor).

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I'm pretty sure I'd find most climbs 4 grades under my trad onsight limit pretty easy too.... (that would be severe for me!)

In reply to Ciderslider:

So did you get on a few classics Mark?

In reply to Coel Hellier: It is intimidating, but you can work that out just from looking up at it. It's not a big reach at all, I'm 5'6" with a -2 ape, and I had no problem. Also, you can place the cam, downclimb, get an almost total rest, then go for it (which I did).

In reply to Ciderslider:

Cheers for all the advice - we ended up doing some very low grade stuff - which was very pleasant - I watched a horror show on the Sloth (which made me think no just now, but maybe soon)
A lad got the sling over the block - got all the way out to the lip, dropped a cam, wedged/stuck on the lip then had to call for a rescue/rope. For a few moments things got a bit scary !!!!!!!!!
As the rope was being passed down he managed to Finnish it off (thank god !!!!)