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Cogne Ice conditions

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 TimhNorthBASE 09 Dec 2013
Just looked on there logbook page www.iceclimbingcogne.com, and they said its been -17, but still no reports of climbs in condition, we are heading out for xmas, just want some re-assurance something will be climbable, anyone out there atm? cheers
 Misha 09 Dec 2013
In reply to TimhNorthBASE:

It's building, give it time! Two weeks is loads of time. Have a look at https://www.facebook.com/events/207896666033637 - scroll down for some recent photos.
OP TimhNorthBASE 17 Dec 2013
In reply to Misha:

thanks, its starting to look good!
 Misha 18 Dec 2013
In reply to TimhNorthBASE:
I'm going out there tomorrow, climbing from Thursday, so will update here if I remember...

 Alex Buisse 18 Dec 2013
In reply to Misha:

I was there yesterday. Short version: don't bother, it's all gone. Cold Couloir is desperately thin, Candelabro and Tuborg have unclimbable cruxes, Stella doesn't touch down, P1 of Lillaz gully has collapsed (can be climbed with rock pro, apparently) and Lillaz has raging water behind every single piece of ice.
We walked all of the Lillaz valley yesterday and ended up dry tooling in a tiny riverside crag.
OP TimhNorthBASE 18 Dec 2013
In reply to Misha:

Thanks very much that would be great
 Misha 18 Dec 2013
In reply to Alex Buisse:
Great, just what I wanted to hear! It was looking quite good for early season conditions... If it's really that bad, we have a car so can get to some of the other valleys. Also, Patri will be worth having a look at as it's a bit higher and has already been climbed this season.
 Alex Buisse 18 Dec 2013
In reply to Misha:

All those lines have been climbed this season (except maybe Stella). Cold Couloir was done the day before we got there, so we were confident we could get up it. Crazy evolution of the conditions in just 24h.

Also, the forecast snowfall will make many lines very exposed to avalanches.
OP TimhNorthBASE 18 Dec 2013
In reply to Misha:

What valleys do you think will be most likely in condition at the moment?
 smithaldo 18 Dec 2013
In reply to Alex Buisse:

If the predictions are right i would substitute 'many lines very exposed to avalanches' to 'every route with a snow slope above will be lethal'
 Graeme Barr 18 Dec 2013
In reply to Alex Buisse:
Climbed E Tutto Relativo yesterday which was in pretty good condition on the crux 2nd pitch. Had a wander up the valley after. Coyote and Stella artice pretty thin compared with this time last year. Some people on what I think was Gelati- looked hard! Hear argentiere ice falls in pretty good condition yesterday.
 Alex Buisse 19 Dec 2013
In reply to machars:

It must have been you we saw, then. There were two parties when we walked back from Cold Couloir, and another heading up to Ibex Gully.
 benclimbing 19 Dec 2013
In reply to TimhNorthBASE:

Over the past 3 days (17, 18, 19th) my partner and I have climbed Il Sentiero Del Troll (WI3), L'Acheronte (WI3), and Lillaz Gully (WI4 and M4). All these climbs are in excellent early season conditions. Most of the ice is thick and it's been an absolute joy to climb. All three of these routes would be 3 or 4 star classics in Scotland! Patri is also in excellent condition and has seen multiple ascents everyday. Cascade de Lillaz is formed but there is a lot of water running behind the ice! Not really climbable at the moment. It's snowing here at the moment but if some stable weather comes and it consolidates you'll be in for an awesome trip!
 Misha 19 Dec 2013
In reply to benclimbing:
You must be the other Brit team staying at Les Nigritelles! Haven't managed to bump into you yet but we arrived only last night.

We did E Tutto Relativo, along with three other teams. The first and last pitches are a bit thin (just like the stuff we get back home!) but they are easy so that's fine. The crux pillar is fine but felt pushy for a 4, I suspect it's a bit harder right now than when it's fully built up. Also very wet on the right hand side, best to approach it from the left.

Walked past Eaux de Cristaux on the way down and that looked doable but not exactly fat on the second pitch.

So there's certainly stuff to do, especially if you're used to thin British ice!
 Misha 19 Dec 2013
In reply to smithaldo:
Today there has been light snow on and off since mid-afternoon. About two inches here in Lillaz by the evening. I'd be surprised if this was enough to trigger avalanches but it's always something to bear in mind. It was enough for us to need snow chains to drive uphill from a mooch round Cogne back to Lillaz - no winter tires on the hire car! Haven't seen the forecast but if there will be a big dump clearly avalanche risk will be a big factor.
 Simon4 20 Dec 2013
In reply to Misha:

> You must be the other Brit team staying at Les Nigritelles! Haven't managed to bump into you yet but we arrived only last night.

No, that would be us Misha. But we have gone now, a bit prematurely as we thought that the snow might be heavy and make leaving at 5:30 am pretty tricky.

I can confirm that the routes that Ben mentioned are fine, in fact in good nick, until the snow came and coated things. It would be interesting to known how much fell on Thursday evening and Friday morning, to see if our bolt was premature. Not that we would have done any more routes anyway.

Delightful sunny skies and windless days before Thursday, wonderful situation for December. There are a lot of routes that look to be fine further down the Val Nontes, like Monday Money and Val D'Estivo.

Worth pointing out that it is worth taking a few wires for Lillaz Gully as there is some mixed stuff where you might be glad of it.
Post edited at 15:17
 Misha 20 Dec 2013
In reply to TimhNorthBASE:
There was 10-15cm of snow by this morning and a light snowfall continued till mid-afternoon. Driving down to Cogne from Lillaz was fine even with our hire car's summer tires but we needed snow chains to get up to Valnontey from Cogne (of course the locals were just fine with their winter tires). I imagine the road down from Cogne to Aosta was ok.

We did Il Sentiero dei Troll. We didn't see any trolls, probably because they were buried under the snow! About 15cm of it on all but the steepest sections, so needed to swipe it away with the axes to see the ice! General fat ice with just a few thinner bits. It's like Idwal Stream on steroids - the ice is better and the technical steps are bigger and steeper in places but loads of easy ground as well. We did 7 pitches of about 55m each and half a pitch of moving together but there was still at least one more pitch to the top. We did about 400m, which was already longer than the guide book suggests! Then 8 abseils back down off bolted stations - except we couldn't find the last one so down climbed the first pitch.

Monday Money looked fat from a distance.

Thoule has been done according to the log book in Bar Licone - it said the steep section on P2 was delicate - it looked it from down in the valley, just a single thin pillar.

Ingnegneria and Lauson not fully formed though.
 Misha 21 Dec 2013
In reply to TimhNorthBASE:
Did Patri Right Hand, good ice but wet on the top pitch. Left Hand looked pretty good and was dry!

Pattinaggio Artistico Direct and Tuborg have been done today but hard for the grade.

Repentance has been done by Matthias Scherer and Tanja Schmitt.

Blue sky day and -7 in Valnontey at 5pm.

The path up to Patri is good (and carries on beyond but not been that far yet).
 Misha 22 Dec 2013
In reply to TimhNorthBASE:
Cascade de Lillaz today. Loads of people on it of course, it being a Sunday, otherwise a very pleasant day with a bit of blue sky and the temperature just below zero. P1 looks lethal (a thin carapace of ice) so everyone did the left hand start. The next steepening also had water running under it but the layer of ice was thick enough to climb. The next step, with a left or right hand version, was similar. There was also a 10m steep pillar in the centre which went at a good 4. A bit wet though. The right hand finishing 'headwall' looked fine. We did the left hand one - the first pitch was fine but the second was on dodgy thin ice with water running under it and in places bare rock with water running over it. Good thing it's only about 45 degrees! Beware.

Saw Lau Bij on the way down, first pitch looked doable if thin, second pitch probably doable for the brave and competent - lots of thin daggers hanging down on the traverse.
 Misha 24 Dec 2013
In reply to TimhNorthBASE:
Cold Couloir yesterday. Good ice apart from the narrow Scottish gully type pitch which had thin ice (fine to climb on but not good for gear) but it's the easiest pitch anyway.

Patinaggio Artistico Direct today. Fluted ice on the pillar made solid pick placements hard to get and decent screws virtually impossible. Thankfully there is a rest half way up the steep bit. Great route, HOWEVER there is a fracture line running across some/most of the pillar at the end of the steep bit, between a centimetre and a inch wide. We both got up ok but I would nkt recommend climbing it and would not have gone anywhere near it if I had know about it!

Fairly warm both days, at or slightly below zero.

Light snow started this evening and there is now a dusting on the road outside here in Lillaz.

Candelabro de Coyote and Tuborg have both been done by others.

Eaux de Cristaux also got done but not quite to the very top as too thin apparently.
 CurlyStevo 25 Dec 2013
In reply to Misha:
How did you descend from Patinaggio Artistico. I abbed down it last year after doing the indirect and was having a bit of an epic which wasn't helped by not knowing if the final ab would reach the ground from bolts above the ice pillar (which wasn't formed then), so ended up leading back out the pitch we abed down on the way in and reversing back down the ramp which was very time consuming in the dark, which came at a bad time considering we had already consumed plenty of time with our wee epic already !
Post edited at 18:19
In reply to Misha:

Will you still be in Cogne next week Misha? Me and my friend are heading over next week - maybe you could point us in the direction of a few routes for ice newbies if you're still around?
 Misha 26 Dec 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:
There is a good bolt belay above the direct which gets you to the ground in about 40m...
 Misha 26 Dec 2013
In reply to David Kirsfelds:
Afraid I left this morning... Depends what you mean by ice newbies, ie how much experience of winter stuff and general mountain multipitch you have. Unlike Rjukan, as far as I know there aren't any easy single pitch routes, except for some short ice falls below the road to Lillaz. It's called Moline - ask at the tourist office. If you're happy doing multiple abseils (off generally good anchors, mostly bolts) then hear in mind that you do t have to finish a route. So you could look at something like Il Sentiero del Troll in Valnontey and ab off after a few pitches. It's an abseil descent for most routes anyway. Cascade de Lillaz is a firm favourite and is mostly fairly easy (about Scottish 3 if you take the easiest line) if you avoid the first pitch, which is steeper and wasn't fully formed a few days ago - instead start on the left, just where the approach path joins the stream bed (follow the crowds!). The other advantage is the 5 min approach from Lillaz and lower avalanche risk. There has been a lot of snow do that's a consideration.

 Misha 26 Dec 2013
In reply to TimhNorthBASE:
Did Flash Estivo by the Colonnata Centrale variation finish yesterday. It's just part Repentance and starts quite high up, so it was a right slog to get there with the fresh snow. The path along the valley bottom was ok actually as there was a firm base to the path under 10-15 cm of fresh snow (off the path was knee deep!). The path up the approach slope was faint and hard work though. The ice varied from soft wet stuff which was great for tool placements but so-so for screws to very hard ice which was harder work for tools but great for screws. The Colonnata Centrale finish had a steep section that would go at about 4+ or perhaps 5 as per the guide book but we were pressed for time after a late start and the long approach, so found a sneaky way round at about 4. That's the natural way to go if you use the fixed belay. Alternatively you could go direct up the steeper stuff. Either way, we couldn't see a belay at the top, though it was dark by then so we might have missed it with the limited viability from head torches! I did a sling belay off a boulder done way back from the edge, backed up by axes in frozen turf - very Scottish! We then abbed off the sling and found we couldn't get back to the previous belay as it was well off to the side, while going directly down we ended up a few metres short of the next belay... Lots of faff ensued setting up an intermediary belay. A bit of an adventure!

It snowed all day and continued through the night and was still snoeing hard as we were leaving. Well over a foot since Xmas eve. The path back last night was perfect from half way back due to the Xmas day walkers but unless there are lots of people out walking today as well it will be hard work. Temperature just below zero as we were leaving in the morning, same as the last few days.

There was avalanche debris across the path yesterday just before the Patri turn off. Looked like a wet snow slide rather than powder - presumably heated up by the afternoon sun. If the weather clears, this could be an issue on sunlit slopes. There is also quire a lot of powder now, though little wind. Beware...

That's the end of my reporting, hopefully someone else will take over. Great place, fantastic climbing, just beware of the avalanche risk after the recent falls and as of this morning winter tires or snow chains were a must just to get to Cogne.

Oh and there were horse sleighs for hire at Valnontey yesterday, shame we didn't have any money...
 Graeme Barr 26 Dec 2013
In reply to Misha:
Did notice some thin slab on top of a very weak layer of sugary snow (old hoar crystals?) Failed with my finger tips when isolated so maybe this was the cause of the slide you saw once it was loaded with fresh snow?
In reply to Misha:

Cheers for the suggestions. Happy doing multi-pitch stuff and some winter experience so there should be plenty to go at. Hopefully I can post a few updates for the conditions when I get there.
 Mr. Lee 04 Jan 2014
In reply to TimhNorthBASE:

Nearly at the end of a ten day trip to Cogne. Conditions have been improving since we arrived although it looks as though it will be warmer next week. A few inches of fresh snow have fallen today.

28th Dec: Gran Val, Valmontey. Deep snow on the approach. Ice was very inconsistent with thin/hollow ice and sections of running water.

29th Dec: Cascades de Lillaz. Water running on large section of first pitch, although still perfectly climbable (this has ceased when we walked past the route two days ago though). The ice conditions were excellent despite. The route was very busy.

30th Dec: Fenilliaz. Deep snow trail-breaking on the approach. Thin ice and lots of snow on the route

31st Dec: Valmiana. More deep snow trail-breaking. First pitch hard for the grade. Steep stepped ice with soft snowy ice in between. Ice was excellent higher up.

2nd Jan: Lillaz Gully. Ice was in excellent condition. Fourth pitch mixed at the top

3rd Jan: Patri de Gauche. Excellent ice conditions again. BUSY! Lower pitches very hooked. I climbed the right side of the icefall, which was a lot less hooked and hard for the grade. Apparently Patri de Droite is more like WI5 according to climbers we spoke to.

4th Jan: E Tutto Relativo. Again excellent ice conditions but very hooked-out. This made the climbing much easier.

I've been very slack with updates but the first few routes are here:

http://leeharrisonclimbing.blogspot.co.uk/

I'll upload some entries and photos Monday night once back in the UK...
 Graeme Barr 04 Jan 2014
In reply to Mr. Lee:
Was next door to you on 31st on sentiero dei troll. It was in pretty good condition with plenty of ice on the steeper steps. Was through in ollomont the day before where the routes are in ok condition too.
 Mr. Lee 07 Jan 2014
In reply to machars:

Yeah that was us. A good day out.

We climbed Pattinaggio Artistico on Sunday. Good ice conditions. Plenty of snow on the easier slopes. We optimistically went to have at look at Sospiri Ibernati but the first pitch was totally absent.
 kevin stephens 07 Jan 2014
In reply to:

Avalanche info for Aosta, scroll down for specific info for ice climbers
http://appweb.regione.vda.it/DBWEB/bollnivometeo/bollnivometeo.nsf/vista_e/...
 Alex Buisse 07 Jan 2014
In reply to kevin stephens:

We did Lillaz Gully today. A bit thin in places, more mixed than usual (a few cams proved useful) but very stepped out and nothing really challenging. Great track on the approach and descent.

Lau Bij looked very fragile. Lillaz is a raging waterfall.
 Ramon Marin 07 Jan 2014
In reply to TimhNorthBASE:

Plenty stuff in conditions, stella artice, patinaggio artistico direct (looks awesome), candelbro, turborh, erfaulet, thoule, monday money, patri, repentance....

also in valsavanranche plenty to go at too.

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