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Hi,
I am currently being asked what I would like for christmas and I am a bit stuck.
I know I would like a Softshell Jacket but as there are so many around I am unsure which would be the best.
If you have had any good/bad experiences with any I would really appreciate your feedback!
Thank you in advance!
Alex
I am currently being asked what I would like for christmas and I am a bit stuck.
I know I would like a Softshell Jacket but as there are so many around I am unsure which would be the best.
If you have had any good/bad experiences with any I would really appreciate your feedback!
Thank you in advance!
Alex
In reply to alexrumsey:
These are my experiences when used for ice climbing.
Arcteryx Gamma Hoody - Excellent in every regard.
Rab Vapour Rise - Very breathable but as soon as you touch the ice you get a wet patch.
Buffalo Wind Shirt - very good in certain conditions but you may overheat if you "run hot".
These are my experiences when used for ice climbing.
Arcteryx Gamma Hoody - Excellent in every regard.
Rab Vapour Rise - Very breathable but as soon as you touch the ice you get a wet patch.
Buffalo Wind Shirt - very good in certain conditions but you may overheat if you "run hot".
In reply to GridNorth:
Fantastic! thank you for the info! I am off skiing in Jan so will be using then I am sure
Fantastic! thank you for the info! I am off skiing in Jan so will be using then I am sure
In reply to alexrumsey:
Go for the Montane Extreme Jacket. Really waterproof and awesomely warm, plus pertex is really hardwearing.
Go for the Montane Extreme Jacket. Really waterproof and awesomely warm, plus pertex is really hardwearing.
In reply to MischaHY:
I think the Montane is like the Buffalo perhaps a little more stylish but suffers from the same problem, at least for me. I find it very hard to keep cool in it. I prefer the flexibilty of different layers. One to wick, one to insulate and one to keep out wind and a certain amount of wet.
I think the Montane is like the Buffalo perhaps a little more stylish but suffers from the same problem, at least for me. I find it very hard to keep cool in it. I prefer the flexibilty of different layers. One to wick, one to insulate and one to keep out wind and a certain amount of wet.
In reply to GridNorth:
I will mostly be using it for skiing and hiking/backpacking therefore I will need it breathable more than anything not so much hard wearing because I will not be scraping against rocks (for now). I do tend to heat up fast therefore if you know of any that are relatively light weight, breathable and with a hood I think this could narrow it down.
I will mostly be using it for skiing and hiking/backpacking therefore I will need it breathable more than anything not so much hard wearing because I will not be scraping against rocks (for now). I do tend to heat up fast therefore if you know of any that are relatively light weight, breathable and with a hood I think this could narrow it down.
In reply to alexrumsey:
You may be OK with the Vapour Rise in that case but I nearly always reach for the Gamma Hoody even for skiing.
You may be OK with the Vapour Rise in that case but I nearly always reach for the Gamma Hoody even for skiing.
In reply to alexrumsey:
Maybe a powershield softshell would suit then?
I have to say for non-pissing down conditions (wind, snow) I've found a simple marmot m3 softshell very good (and very cheap).
Maybe a powershield softshell would suit then?
I have to say for non-pissing down conditions (wind, snow) I've found a simple marmot m3 softshell very good (and very cheap).
In reply to alexrumsey:
I've had 2 x Arcteryk Gamma Hoodies and couldn't recommend them enough. One of the best bits of kit I own.
I've also had a couple of MH softshells, though less technical ones, and they have been pretty good too but considerably cooler. I wouldn't wear them in the winter.
I've had 2 x Arcteryk Gamma Hoodies and couldn't recommend them enough. One of the best bits of kit I own.
I've also had a couple of MH softshells, though less technical ones, and they have been pretty good too but considerably cooler. I wouldn't wear them in the winter.
In reply to alexrumsey:
I have montane sabertooth and use it for everything from walking, ice and winter climbing and have found it to be an excellent jacket, great fabric, windproof, breathable and cut really well.
I have montane sabertooth and use it for everything from walking, ice and winter climbing and have found it to be an excellent jacket, great fabric, windproof, breathable and cut really well.
In reply to alexrumsey:
don't bother with a sofshell ,paid ALOT of money for mine although they look the business .I found they are in fact cold/not that wind proof ,worst of all when you sweat they retain the damp and seriously take 24 hours to dry out .not wot you want on the hill .there must be better gear out there ,!
don't bother with a sofshell ,paid ALOT of money for mine although they look the business .I found they are in fact cold/not that wind proof ,worst of all when you sweat they retain the damp and seriously take 24 hours to dry out .not wot you want on the hill .there must be better gear out there ,!
In reply to colina:
Well, there's soft shell, and there's soft shell. And then there's soft shell, and there's also soft shell.
The four basic types:
stretch woven, non-membraned, e.g. Schoeller Dynamic, Dryskin & clones
continuous membrane garments, e.g. WindStopper, Gore-Tex SoftShell, etc.
perforated membrane (or possibly just glue) garments, e.g. Polartec PowerShield
proofed microfibre/micropile, e.g. Rab VR
Then we can add in old skool soft shell like Buffalo pile/pertex.
And simple, almost soft shell like a simple Pertex wind shell, or the robust versions such as Paramo's Fuera, or Patagonia's defunct ReadyMix.
Or nearly waterproof versions of shelled micropile, like Paramo Analogy, or the more recent developments in waterproofs, such as NeoShell, which verge on soft shell.
Add in various degrees of insulation, and you get a huge range of things labelled 'soft shell', all of which have different properties, and behave differently. So the first thing to do is identify what you want to use a 'soft shell' for, and what features you want the fabric to have; generally, you'll be trading weather protection for breathability. Then identify what features you want the garment to have (hood, pockets, length, etc).
> don't bother with a sofshell ,paid ALOT of money for mine although they look the business .I found they are in fact cold/not that wind proof ,worst of all when you sweat they retain the damp and seriously take 24 hours to dry out .not wot you want on the hill .there must be better gear out there ,!
Well, there's soft shell, and there's soft shell. And then there's soft shell, and there's also soft shell.
The four basic types:
stretch woven, non-membraned, e.g. Schoeller Dynamic, Dryskin & clones
continuous membrane garments, e.g. WindStopper, Gore-Tex SoftShell, etc.
perforated membrane (or possibly just glue) garments, e.g. Polartec PowerShield
proofed microfibre/micropile, e.g. Rab VR
Then we can add in old skool soft shell like Buffalo pile/pertex.
And simple, almost soft shell like a simple Pertex wind shell, or the robust versions such as Paramo's Fuera, or Patagonia's defunct ReadyMix.
Or nearly waterproof versions of shelled micropile, like Paramo Analogy, or the more recent developments in waterproofs, such as NeoShell, which verge on soft shell.
Add in various degrees of insulation, and you get a huge range of things labelled 'soft shell', all of which have different properties, and behave differently. So the first thing to do is identify what you want to use a 'soft shell' for, and what features you want the fabric to have; generally, you'll be trading weather protection for breathability. Then identify what features you want the garment to have (hood, pockets, length, etc).
Post edited at 18:54
In reply to alexrumsey:
I think it depends what you want to use it for and what you want in it. Hooded or not? Warm on its own or to go with layers? Would you wear a shell over it? Do you run warm or cold? Fit? Price? People's recommendations are only good for you if your needs match - softshell encompasses everything from a hoodless Marmot windshirt for £70 to an Arcteryx hooded gem for £450 quid.
I think it depends what you want to use it for and what you want in it. Hooded or not? Warm on its own or to go with layers? Would you wear a shell over it? Do you run warm or cold? Fit? Price? People's recommendations are only good for you if your needs match - softshell encompasses everything from a hoodless Marmot windshirt for £70 to an Arcteryx hooded gem for £450 quid.
In reply to Edradour:
Yes I do agree with you the Arcteryk Gamma Hoodies they do look the business, and judging from all of your feedback they look to be well worth the money. Thanks again for your feedback big help!!
Yes I do agree with you the Arcteryk Gamma Hoodies they do look the business, and judging from all of your feedback they look to be well worth the money. Thanks again for your feedback big help!!
In reply to captain paranoia:
yeah your right in wot you say there are many different types and I was wrong to criticise every soft shell in the world .! apologies
my shell is a rab boltoro alpine btw and I don't rate it tbh although for the taller person it does have long sleeves and a decent length so not all bad.
> > don't bother with a sofshell ,paid ALOT of money for mine although they look the business .I found they are in fact cold/not that wind proof ,worst of all when you sweat they retain the damp and seriously take 24 hours to dry out .not wot you want on the hill .there must be better gear out there ,!
> Well, there's soft shell, and there's soft shell. And then there's soft shell, and there's also soft shell.
> The four basic types:
> stretch woven, non-membraned, e.g. Schoeller Dynamic, Dryskin & clones
> continuous membrane garments, e.g. WindStopper, Gore-Tex SoftShell, etc.
> perforated membrane (or possibly just glue) garments, e.g. Polartec PowerShield
> proofed microfibre/micropile, e.g. Rab VR
> Then we can add in old skool soft shell like Buffalo pile/pertex.
> And simple, almost soft shell like a simple Pertex wind shell, or the robust versions such as Paramo's Fuera, or Patagonia's defunct ReadyMix.
> Or nearly waterproof versions of shelled micropile, like Paramo Analogy, or the more recent developments in waterproofs, such as NeoShell, which verge on soft shell.
> Add in various degrees of insulation, and you get a huge range of things labelled 'soft shell', all of which have different properties, and behave differently. So the first thing to do is identify what you want to use a 'soft shell' for, and what features you want the fabric to have; generally, you'll be trading weather protection for breathability. Then identify what features you want the garment to have (hood, pockets, length, etc).
yeah your right in wot you say there are many different types and I was wrong to criticise every soft shell in the world .! apologies
my shell is a rab boltoro alpine btw and I don't rate it tbh although for the taller person it does have long sleeves and a decent length so not all bad.
Mountain Equipment orbital jackets are very good. I have found mine to be as breathable as pertex but more weather resistant.
In reply to GridNorth:
Fair point, I have mine for climbing and skiing. It is wonderfully warm, but does seem to breath well when combined with a light baselayer (or a heavier one if out in the serious cold!). Plus that fleecy hood is like a soft warm hug.
Fair point, I have mine for climbing and skiing. It is wonderfully warm, but does seem to breath well when combined with a light baselayer (or a heavier one if out in the serious cold!). Plus that fleecy hood is like a soft warm hug.
In reply to alexrumsey:
Every soft shell is a compromise between water resistance, warmth, wind proofness and breathability. Throw into the mix style, cut and fit and it gets even more complicated but you need to work out which of these features are most important to you. For me warmth is the least important as another layer can be more affective for that. They ar not all equal and different conditions demand different qualities. Buffalo is the original "pile soft shell" and in some situations can be superb. I've worn mine in Rjukan where the walk-ins are short and it was superb but when I tried it in Cogne I was too hot.
Every soft shell is a compromise between water resistance, warmth, wind proofness and breathability. Throw into the mix style, cut and fit and it gets even more complicated but you need to work out which of these features are most important to you. For me warmth is the least important as another layer can be more affective for that. They ar not all equal and different conditions demand different qualities. Buffalo is the original "pile soft shell" and in some situations can be superb. I've worn mine in Rjukan where the walk-ins are short and it was superb but when I tried it in Cogne I was too hot.
In reply to GridNorth:
This is why I prefer a lightweight softshell as part of a more flexible layering system. My current choice is the Montane Alpine Stretch because it combines well with a very lightweight insulated midlayer to provide three options from two garments, ie base + insulation, base + softshell or base + insulation + softshell outer. Combine these with a hardshell in the pack and you've covered all the bases, including the need for warmth at belays.
Both the softshell and the insulation, being lightweight can function as a mid-layer under the hardshell for extra protection, or in combination as a complete barrier to wet and cold.
This is why I prefer a lightweight softshell as part of a more flexible layering system. My current choice is the Montane Alpine Stretch because it combines well with a very lightweight insulated midlayer to provide three options from two garments, ie base + insulation, base + softshell or base + insulation + softshell outer. Combine these with a hardshell in the pack and you've covered all the bases, including the need for warmth at belays.
Both the softshell and the insulation, being lightweight can function as a mid-layer under the hardshell for extra protection, or in combination as a complete barrier to wet and cold.
Post edited at 11:25
In reply to BnB:
I'm looking at the Montane Alpine Stretch BnB, how's the fit with it? And what's the weatherproofness like? It looks a bargain for the price as well.
I'm looking at the Montane Alpine Stretch BnB, how's the fit with it? And what's the weatherproofness like? It looks a bargain for the price as well.
In reply to JayPee630:
As you'd expect from a lightweight garment, neither the wind nor rainproofing is as good as for a heavier garment. But the breathability is off the scale, important when wearing insulation underneath. Nevertheless, windproofing is pretty good.
Sizing: Unlike most Montane garments, which are cut small, the sizing is a sandbag. Medium is more like a Medium/Large. As I'm a regulation medium this works well in my layering system. Other advantages include two Napoleon chest pockets which are essential for winter climbing on top of the two hand warmer pockets. Big, helmet-friendly hood. Amazing value.
Would I ski in it? Probably not. Climb? You bet.
As you'd expect from a lightweight garment, neither the wind nor rainproofing is as good as for a heavier garment. But the breathability is off the scale, important when wearing insulation underneath. Nevertheless, windproofing is pretty good.
Sizing: Unlike most Montane garments, which are cut small, the sizing is a sandbag. Medium is more like a Medium/Large. As I'm a regulation medium this works well in my layering system. Other advantages include two Napoleon chest pockets which are essential for winter climbing on top of the two hand warmer pockets. Big, helmet-friendly hood. Amazing value.
Would I ski in it? Probably not. Climb? You bet.
In reply to alexrumsey:
One of the most versatile soft shell garments I own is a Marmot DriClime windshirt.
One of the most versatile soft shell garments I own is a Marmot DriClime windshirt.
In reply to BnB:
Thanks, that sounds great.
Yeah, breathability is probably more important for me really, although a good level of windproofness is useful too. I'm a regular medium as well, so might have to try one on before I order. Sounds like I'd use it the same as you, with either a base layer or a base layer plus a thin fleece pullover or a thin Nano-puff like synthetic underneath.
Thanks, that sounds great.
Yeah, breathability is probably more important for me really, although a good level of windproofness is useful too. I'm a regular medium as well, so might have to try one on before I order. Sounds like I'd use it the same as you, with either a base layer or a base layer plus a thin fleece pullover or a thin Nano-puff like synthetic underneath.
In reply to alexrumsey:
Can I say the worst soft shell garment I ever bought was the Montane Extreme Smock. Far too warm to walk in with, very bulky and heavy to carry. Not at all waterproof (spin drift just melted on the outside and seeped in), venting options are no where near effective enough (on the smock). Always getting cold on belay and too hot on the more physical pitches. Also being non stretchy its not the most comfortable.
I also find that non stretchy soft shell is no where near as abrasion/tear resistant as stretchy soft shell. My Extreme Smock has repairs all over the shop and I only used it for just over one season ( as does my other pertex shell)! Whilst my stretchy soft shell jacket which is much much older has no holes or tears at all (apart from in the pockets its that old!) and neither does my fairly new stretchy soft shell jacket (about a year or so old).
I think you are much better off getting a non insulated non fleece backed non membrane stretchy soft shell for climbing in and wearing a primaloft belay jacket over the top when belaying.
I use the Rab Exodus for winter stuff.
Can I say the worst soft shell garment I ever bought was the Montane Extreme Smock. Far too warm to walk in with, very bulky and heavy to carry. Not at all waterproof (spin drift just melted on the outside and seeped in), venting options are no where near effective enough (on the smock). Always getting cold on belay and too hot on the more physical pitches. Also being non stretchy its not the most comfortable.
I also find that non stretchy soft shell is no where near as abrasion/tear resistant as stretchy soft shell. My Extreme Smock has repairs all over the shop and I only used it for just over one season ( as does my other pertex shell)! Whilst my stretchy soft shell jacket which is much much older has no holes or tears at all (apart from in the pockets its that old!) and neither does my fairly new stretchy soft shell jacket (about a year or so old).
I think you are much better off getting a non insulated non fleece backed non membrane stretchy soft shell for climbing in and wearing a primaloft belay jacket over the top when belaying.
I use the Rab Exodus for winter stuff.
Post edited at 17:06
In reply to alexrumsey:
I have both an Arc Teryx softshell (can't remember which model) and a Mountain Hardwear Synchro and both are awesome. Absolutely untouchable and I use them in all conditions, for all sorts of different activities
I have both an Arc Teryx softshell (can't remember which model) and a Mountain Hardwear Synchro and both are awesome. Absolutely untouchable and I use them in all conditions, for all sorts of different activities
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