UKC

Just out of interest has anyone had or heard of any accidents or near misses with people using quick lock fastenings rather than the thread-back ones.

Cheers

In reply to chris687:

Ah! A fellow Luddite. Well met, friend.

Here's some reading to keep you going while other replies are made.

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/black-diamond-aspect-climbing-harness-fail...

In reply to chris687:

When I got my current harness (~4 years ago) someone I climbed with reckoned they'd once had a quick buckle catch on a thrutchy move and the waist loop come close to fully undone. I'd give it about the same truth rating as 'a bloke in the pub once told me that one of his mates said...' but was enough for me to stick with the double back sort when I bought it as (if you're used to them) I can't see many problems with them.

In reply to chris687:

A more sensible reply.

There has been talk of leg loops coming undone when the krab holding a Prusik pulls up against the buckle during an abseil.

I avoid ziplocks because of superstition, rather than evidence. I've never felt the need to put my harness on 30 seconds faster. There will come a time soon though when all harnesses are made that way.

DMM, Metolius and Black Diamond were the only ones who made proper buckles when I was last shopping around for a harness.

In reply to cuppatea:


1) Leg loops are not safety-critical. (Some harnesses have elastic on the leg loops instead of buckles - the loop shouldn't come completely undone but the elastic allows quite a lot of empty space to appear when the leg loop is under load. The BD Bod and Alpine Bod have plastic fastex clips on the leg loops and no-one ever died from using them, regardless of what Cliffhanger tried to suggest…)

2) Better practice when abseiling is to attach the prusik to the harness ab loop, and to extend the ab device above it. This also practically eliminates any risk of the prusik riding up and interfering with the ab device.

In reply to Martin W:

For a minute I forgot this was UKC

In reply to Martin W:

Of course, the leg loop design of the Bod vs something like the Aspect is completely different. I would not at all be a happy bunny if my Aspect leg buckles were to come open - which they of course never do.

In reply to Martin W:

"1) Leg loops are not safety-critical. (Some harnesses have elastic on the leg loops instead of buckles - the loop shouldn't come completely undone but the elastic allows quite a lot of empty space to appear when the leg loop is under load. The BD Bod and Alpine Bod have plastic fastex clips on the leg loops and no-one ever died from using them, regardless of what Cliffhanger tried to suggest…)"


I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure the leg loops on my harness Arcteryx b360 take up to 70% of the fall/weight

In reply to xplorer:

The entire harness must withstand 15kN, the waist belt alone 10kN.

In reply to chris687: I've never had problems with them coming undone, but I do find my current one a bit of a pain. I have to undo it to get it over my hips and then do it up again! Its as small as it can go on my waist, so couldn't wear a bigger size, but not long enough to pass my hips. Bring back sensible old harnesses!

In reply to chris687:

I've seen the leg loop come undone when abseiling as described above. Doesn't inspire confidence regardless of how critical you think it is. Still, my new harness comes with ziplock buckles and I was reluctant to buy it because of this. Now I have I find it is ok and not had any issues.

One thing though, quite a lot of the ziplock harnesses I tried didn't open enough to get into them with anything other than a t-shirt on, so required the buckle unthreading. I didn't buy them because of this. The Renegade has a much longer webbing so I can get it on over winter clothing as well. Something to consider when trying them on.

In reply to jimtitt:

Xplorer is correct that leg loops normally take most of the load. So if they're not done up, you amplify the force on the waist by 2-3 fold which for a lead fall doesn't sound pleasant - regardless of the harness strength rating. Also that's where important organs are.

Isn't this an equivalent scenario to tying the rope round your waist, like in the Golden Days of Climbing?

In reply to climbwhenready:

I thought so, I suppose its pretty obvious when you think how we normally take a fall. You actually sit on the leg loops not the waist loop.

On my arcteryx b360, the stitching on the waist I have to say looks pretty less sufficient than the stitching on the leg loops. I was a little worried when I first noticed haha.

Has anybody else noticed the lack of stitching on the b360 waist loops?

In reply to chris687:

I find my leg loops loosen during a climb but the waist has never been a problem. The waist has little tabs to hold the excess out the way which I think helps stop it loosen. The ends of the tails(?) have big thick hems that catch on the fastening pulling it tight so I've never been worried about it.

In reply to chris687:

I haven't had problems or heard of accidents. They may creep a bit in use but they're easily tightened, and in the nearly 15 years I've been using them I'm sure I'd have forgotten to double back a normal buckle several times. Oh and I clip the leg loop when I mechanically back up an abseil, always have done and never had a problem.

jk