UKC

Looking for some advice on clothing /Layering for Kilimanjaro summit night:

I’m thinking top: Merino base layer, light weight Fleece , soft shell, and Down Jacket ( Water proof in back pack if needed )
Legs: merino base , standard fleece lined trekking trousers (Waterproof in bag if needed)

Any advice from those who have completed?

What about food? Stuff I can get here and take?

In reply to Carpe Diem:
When you're going would be helpful!

In reply to Ridge:

Next Month.

In reply to Carpe Diem:

I've done it, I had 4 layers on top no down jacket...

I had 3 layers on bottom

Lightweight shell on top and bottom.

The final night is similar to zig zagging up the Ben accept at altitude, don't underestimate it, its high!! Get fit..
Just your normal hill snacks you can carry in your pockets and drink plenty...

Good luck!

In reply to Gav Parker:

Cheers Gav!

In reply to Carpe Diem:

Its a great trip...what route are you doing??

No need to rush its not a race and again drink plenty!!!

In reply to Gav Parker:

We're doing the Rongai route from the North. I'll use a camelbak and a larger bottle to swig from. Did EBC in 2012, so hopefully that will put me in a good position mentally speaking.

In reply to Carpe Diem:

Yes the final night could be a mental thing!!

At least you not doing the standard route up, you will be better acclimatised hopefully.

In reply to Carpe Diem:

The Rongai's a great route, did it in Feb 2006 for my 40th. It was quite icy underfoot from Kibo upwards.

I was, IIRC, wearing T shirt, long sleeved paramo jumper, and a duvet from TK Maxx. Just normal walking trousers on the bottom, it's a fair slog up, so didn't feel too cold.

Watch for camelback tubes freezing. I was feeling the altitude a bit, and would have been better with snacks in my pocket. I had very snazzy energy gels in the lid pocket of my rucsac, but taking it off and getting them out seemed like far too much hassle in the circumstances.

In reply to Ridge:

mine froze on Kala Patthar in 2012. Just bought an insulated tube, hopefully it will do the needful.

Normal leather boots ( old manta's) with thin liner socks and some warm ones for my feet?

In reply to Carpe Diem:
Sounds about right. I had thermal, thin fleece, either thick fleece or down jacket (can't remember - I suspect thick fleece) and shell (it was a windy night). Legs, just thermals and standard trekking trousers I think. Hat and gloves as needed.

I really don't remember eating much on the way up, but I mainly had to force myself to eat at altitude as I'd lost my appetite anyhow. Agree that having stuff to hand in pockets is the way forward - I certainly just wanted to keep moving, even if it was slowly.

Boots - yes, I had the (very old B1) Mantas with liner socks & wool socks, and that was fine.

In reply to Carpe Diem:
I climbed Kili in March this year for charity and became very ill the night before I started the climb. So to say I was weak by the summit night would be an understatement of the year.

One thing I found once I got in this state was that everything other then walking took a huge effort. If my shoe lace came undone i didnt have the energy to stop and tie it up. When I got back to camp I didnt have the energy for personal hygiene liking changing socks or cleaning i just passed out because it was to much effort to get things out my bag. It was only after doing the trip that i realised that I got everything wrong.

So my most important advice based on a lot of mistakes:
*Water- Get a large insulated camel pack. It means you can drink water continuously and with very little effort. Only fill it about 80% and squeeze the pack when you screw the lid on. (I took bottles and didnt have the energy to unclip them and drink often enough. Then on summit day when i was spaced out i dropped a bottle and the 1 liter contense).

*Food. Buy a bum bag/fanny pack whatever you want to call it. Take a mixture of treats: jellybabies, suckable sweets, and beef jerky. I had flap jack in my back pack. It was so hard to: stop, get it out, eat some, put it back in and then get going. If you have it in a bum bag you can munch as you go. Get youself a small compact camera and keep it in your bum bag. Then it just takes a moment to grab to get that incredible picture.

*Poles. Even if you dont use them now. Get some and learn how to use them. If ghey save you 10% of your energy thats 10% extrs you have for summit day. They are a great for resting on rather then sitting down. They are invaluable for descending especially uf you twist/sprain your ankle.

*Drugs. Dont be a hero. If your bowls are loose take a pill. And evertime you go toilet take another two. You need your skeep and so does your room mate. If you have a head ache drink water, then drink some more water. If you are peeing clear take a patacetemol and eat something sugery. carry toilet roll in your pocket.

*Packing. Dont do what i did and group all your shirts together. All your socks together. Pack your bag in groupS of a days clothes. So shirt trousers socks underwhere in one pile so you dont have to route around your bag. Get it out as soon as you make your bed. Have a plastic bag to jeep your dirty clothes seperate. Then all you have to do in the morning is get changed andput thebplastic bag back in your main bag.

*Get a decent head torch. Not a cheapy one. I think ny petzel something 3 was exellent but costs around 69 quid. Get some spare decent AA batteries.

*Go bold. In the morning you will be cold and want to put a fleece on. Dont bother or get it off just before you start walking because you will only have to stop and take it off 10 minutes later. The only exception to this is summitnight. It gets colder and windier tge higher you get.

*Summit night. Take two pairs of hats and gloves. A lot of guides dont have hats and gloves. My guide was freezing and I felt so guilty I off mine and gave it to my guide. Then i was cold and freezing. Seriously consider snow goggles or really good sun glasses. The day I summited was hot and dry. The next day they had 18 inches of snow.

Most importantly open your eyes, take in the scenery, soak up the place.

Appologies for the typos. Typing this on my phone. TAKE A CAMELPACK AND BUM BUG.

In reply to Ian Miller:

Thanks Ian, some fantastic advise there. I have a 3L insulated Camelbak.Why fill only 80% & squeeze?

Bum bag makes so much sense too.

In reply to Carpe Diem:
I wore Meindl Burmas. At the end of the day it's scree underfoot.
My other advice is don't take Gucci kit. I took old but serviceable stuff and left it for the guides at the end.

In reply to Carpe Diem:

I've climbed Kili five times...it's usually very, very cold on summit day.

My advice would be to take mittens rather than gloves for the climb from the highest camp to the summit..people tend to get very cold fingers, particularly when using walking poles. A pair of dachstiens with liners underneath should do the trick (although I used a pair of ME down mittens).

Cold toes are also common on summit day. Make sure you wear fresh (not damp and sweaty), with liners underneath. Take the best, warmest socks you can find.

Layer wise, I wear two thermal baselayers, a mid weight fleece and a heavy outer, wind proof fleece. It's a very good idea to take a down jacket in your rucksack for brew stops and hanging around on the top.

Make sure you keep your camera in an inner pocket or the cold will kill the battery. It's a good idea to put it in your sleeping bag at night.

Keep some snacks in your pockets - where you can get them without having to stop and take your rucksack off.

I only used a camelback once, the tube froze solid within a couple of hours of leaving camp.

Good luck!

In reply to Ian Miller:

If you are peeing clear take a patacetemol and eat something sugery.

why do you do this out of interest?

In reply to THE.WALRUS:

I'd echo that. I've only been up it once but it was properly cold on top, and windy. I only had a light down gilet plus thermal, Vapourrise jacket and a waterproof, and I would've preferred a proper down jacket by far.

In reply to Carpe Diem:

If you have the traditional early start you might find that anything exposed freezes. I had a water bottle freeze inside my pack on the predawn trudge up to Gillman's Point. I was OK in a lightweight Rab down pullover plus several layes beneath.

In reply to Carpe Diem:

re. camelback tubes... Keep the tube inside your jacket. It won't freeze and you'll be the envy of all!

In reply to d508934:

Sorry my point was badly phrased as I was typing on a phone. My point was that in order to succeed you want to treat any issue early and nip it in the bud, whether its: diarrhoea, blisters, headaches etc. because it soon has a snowball effect. What starts of as a mild headache turns into not wanting to complete your nightly routine, means that you can end up dehydrated or to cold or hungry etc. What I noticed with myself and others in the group as soon as one issue took hold of you, everything seemed to deteriorate.

When it comes to headaches there are generally 3 common reasons: dehydration, low sugar levels and as a result of altitude. Although dehydrations is a common cause, if you have been drinking a lot and your peeing clear its probably not dehydration and one of the other two. so make sure you get your sugar levels up by eating something sugary. A lot of people in my group, myself included, wanted to avoid medicating because we didn't want to hide the symptoms of acute mountain sickness. On reflection having completed the trip I would say that perhaps this isn't the best approach. I would recommend taking a small dosage of paracetamol etc. if it allows you to function normally because that way you have got a better chance of staying in better physical condition.

It is important not to over medicate as you still want to be aware of the symptoms of acute altitude sickness.

This is in no way professional medical advice. Always seek the advice of a professional doctor or expert. These are just mental notes I made for myself to take into whatever trip I attempt next.

In reply to Carpe Diem:

You can probably fill it more then 80 % but don't expand it fully. I know of two that burst/leaked. Whether this was a result of altitude and the reduction in atmospheric pressure or because they were crushed I am not sure. But if its not full and it gets squeezed the water can move to the void created by the spare capacity.

Another common issue was air locks in the tube, which people struggled to suck past. (Probably would of been easy at sea level). Squeezing the air out before you got started for the day so the tube was full from bladder to mouth piece with water. Seemed to prevent this issue.

The aim of the game is to remove the need to stop for anything, breaking momentum is a spirit killer. Whether its for 5 seconds to tie a lace or 5 minutes to get something out of your bag.

In reply to Carpe Diem:

I was happy in 3/4 layers including a softshell, UNTIL we had to keep stopping for a slow colleague (who eventually got taken down by a guide). Twenty minutes of inactivity - on with the duvet and never took it off again.

In reply to Pedro50:

So you didn't wear the duvet from the start then? I'm all for starting cold, and getting warm - is it the same at that altitude?

In reply to Carpe Diem:

I wore thermals, Fleece, and rain Jacket. Thermals, overtrou on bottom

I was cold sleeping the night before..Maybe an altitude symptom. Wished I had heater pads for in my socks.

In reply to Carpe Diem:


Yes I think so. It was only just freezing at the top camp at midnight. Got a hell of a lot colder towards dawn though. Be prepared.

In reply to Carpe Diem:

No perhaps carry a synthetic insulating jacket but 3 to 4 layers including your goretex should be fine!!
Just keep drinking and eat as much as you can, you may loose your appetite a little but force it down and drink some more.
Good gloves and a hat as well.
Plenty of handy stuff to eat...

In reply to Ian Miller:

Some good advice there Ian. What route did you do and how many days on the mountain?

Agreed, summit night on Kili can be very, very cold.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

Thanks all, so much. Can I ask about Diamox too? We did the EBC trek in 2012 and started taking Diamox at Dingboche (4500M ) I had a mild tingling in fingers at times, but no real issues with the altitude apart from loosing my appetite a bit.

Would you recommend using it around the same height even if I'm not getting any AMS symptoms?

Thanks

In reply to Carpe Diem:

I used Diamox prophylactically on Meru (4500m), but I was working, and it was important to me that I didn't get AMS as this could jeopardise the whole trip for the entire team and I wasn't able to ascend at my own pace. Diamox works by accelerating the rate at which the body acclimatises, so its a good one to take in advance of problems if you think it will be helpful. Side effects included tingling fingers and a need to pee constantly. I actually halved the dose the doctor prescribed (it seemed a bit extreme). I acclimatised better than pretty much everyone on my trip to the point that the guides commented on how well I was doing. I only noticed the altitude once when I tried to run to the front of the group at 4,000m. (doh).
I've never used it for personal trips as I like to go at my own pace and listen to what my body is telling me, plus needing to pee constantly on a summit ridge is not very convenient.

With reference to paracetamol and masking the symptoms of AMS. There is no point in suffering for no reason. The received wisdom that I have garnered is to take painkillers as needed. If the pain goes away, no worries, if it doesn't this is a strong indication of a more significant problem. - so it can actually help in AMS diagnosis.

In reply to Snoweider:

The other thing about taking mild painkillers is, at least in my experience, once you've got a headache from dehydration, altitude or the combination, it can take hours to get rid of it without painkillers, even if you're clearly fed, rehydrated, etc. And that can be enough to stop you doing the other stuff you need to do to look after yourself (eating, sleeping, sorting kit). Whereas a single dose of ibuprofen or similar can quickly clear it, and make you far more able to look after yourself.

I wouldn't necessarily want to be taking them constantly, but the odd dose here and there (most evenings for me) doesn't worry me at all.

In reply to Carpe Diem:

AS mentioned it is exactly like the tourist route up the Ben except for lack of air and really cold. Same ascent and same zig zags.

It is cold and because it is popular often very crowded and slow.

Merino wool good idea, layers good, down jacket but not a great big one otherwise you will cook, generally better to have thinner layers you can progressively take off but which are not bulky in rucksack.

Disposable Handwarmers, 2 for each hand, and a few spare because they don't always work. Best to wear thinish windproof fleece gloves inside mitts so when you take your hands out of mitts they are still protected.

Insulated camelback froze in the tube despite blowing back, so make sure you also have an insulated bottle.

Good torch, Energizer lithium batteries, and best to have a small spare one, you will be plodding for hours.

The trek before is fairly easy but cold at nights. Summit day is long, 1300m and 2000m down.

Waterproof, freezeproof, dust proof camera you can strap on your belt and don't have to worry about.

Its seriously dusty, gritty since its a volcano. So use zip lock poly bags for clothes and things, the grit gets every where. Put a set of clothes, T shirt, pants, socks in a ziplock bag and when changing put old ones in bag. You kitbag will get lots of grit as will rucksack.

Take a tube of Vitamin C Orange or lemon flavoured fizzy tablets, put one in your water to help kill taste of kerosene.

Nalegene wide mouth bottle for water which you use as a hotwater bottle.

Buffs, you can breathe through them when really cold which helps keep air moist.

Take a load of throat lozenges, lockets type, need to take these to avoid sore throat because of cold dry air.

Also lip sun block and put it on all the time, from start of trek, easy to get lip blisters because of the strength of the sun with thin atmosphere, and they really hurt.

In reply to Carpe Diem:
Lots of tips have been already pointed out. A point I can add is, in high altitude (summiting day) you can not physically walk fast to generate more heat, due to lack of oxygen. Obviously fitter you are, faster you can walk, nevertheless it is impossible to walk up in Kili as fast as you would in Ben Nevis, even though the track is as easy to walk as Ben Nevis tourist track. It is not recommended to rush in the high altitude anyway (unless you have been somehow already acclimatised well for the altitude of the summit!).
In addition, even if you are fit, one of your group members may not, and there is a good chance you may end up waiting or walking up more slowly than otherwise.
In my case I walked up with the belay jacket on on the summiting day - so it was as cold as belaying still in Scottish winter. It could have been colder, had the wind been stronger.
Masa

In reply to masa-alpin:

The one thing I'd disagree with is the comment about fitness. In the short time you have to acclimatise I suspect it's a lottery on how well you adapt, with fitness not really being a factor. I suspect smoking 50 fags a day and starting the day with a stinking hangover is probably the way to train for Kili.

If you're using Diamox, I'd recommend that you take a piss bottle....you'll get a much better night sleep if you don't have to leave your sleeping bag to take a slash, particularly higher up.

In reply to THE.WALRUS: ref piss bottles

Make sure the bottle has a cap which is attached, like a nalagene, you don't want to be searching for the cap having filled the bottle. And wrap duck tape crinkled up around it so you know which it is by feel.

In reply to m0unt41n

Wise words, indeed. If there's one thing worse than staggering out into the cold at 3am and pissing all over your feet, it's taking a swigg from your piss bottle thinking its vimto.

In reply to all:

another Kili newbie question - any particular seasons/month that most people do it?

In reply to m0unt41n:

Some outstanding advice.Thank you.

Would Gel sachets stay unfrozen if kept in inner pockets under a down jacket? I was thinking of taking a few for the slog up the zig zags?

In reply to Carpe Diem:

By Gel do you mean the reusable ones which aren't that much good, not very warm and don't last very long. The disposable ones last for 6 to 8 hours which is all you need. Open and shake them then in the mess tent when getting ready to leave on summit day (because some may not work, they take a few minutes to get going) and stick 2 in each glove / mitt, they will last until you get to Stella Point and it will start getting warm.

In reply to m0unt41n:

that's good to know,I have a few of those, but I was thinking about these: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/energy-recovery-gels/

In reply to Carpe Diem:

Yes if in an inner pocket they will be OK, if not for them to freeze means you are stuffed since it also means you must have frostbite.

In reply to m0unt41n:

LOL, you do know he's talking about eating gels, not handwarmer ones?!