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Winter Walking Layering

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 craig1983 19 Dec 2013
So I'm hoping to get out winter walking for the first time this winter and wanted to get peoples opinions/experiences with layering systems! I'm more concerned with the lower half of the body, since usually once the layer is on, its on for the day (bar waterproofs), whereas top half layers can be added and removed easily.

I was planning on going for a wicking baselayer and softshell trousers (recommendations of both would be appreciated).

Also, do most people go for full length gaiters as opposed to short ones? I've always found full length ones retain too much heat, but my only experience of that has been in summer.
 The New NickB 19 Dec 2013
In reply to craig1983:

Thermals and soft shell will generally be too warm unless it is very cold, or you suffer with the cold.

You only know yourself how you cope with the cold, but I'd lose the thermals unless its quite a lot below freezing. Do that and full gaiters will probably be fine.
 dan bulman 19 Dec 2013
depends on what your outer layer is too. i use paramo so just wear the trousers next to skin and jacket over a cap 2 or 3 long sleeve top.
only need long johns if its heading down below - double figures or will be sat at belays for a while.

 Lucy Wallace 19 Dec 2013
In reply to craig1983:
Full length gaiters are a must in snow and bog, little ones just won't cut it.

Leg layering- if its full weight soft shell you'll probably be a bit warm with thermals underneath unless its baltic out there, but watch out for some of the lighter soft shell aimed at alpine use, its not that warm.

A decent pair of beefy full zip waterproof trousers is also a good investment, and will help keep you warm if you do underestimate how cold it is.

Can't emphasize enough how important gloves and hats are. Have LOTS of spare gloves, even waterpoof ones will wet out eventually. I carry as a minimum 2 pairs of liners and 2 pairs of waterproof insulated gloves in winter, I will add to this if the forecast is poor. Neck gaitors are good if its windy. Ski goggles are also good- not just for protecting the eyes but keeping the face warm.
Post edited at 09:08
 BnB 19 Dec 2013
Medium weight softshell trousers with a waterproof overtrouser in the rucksac for windy, wet and/or colder conditions will do the job for winter walking. Can't agree that you need long gaiters. The shorter the better in my opinion. If they are well sealed at the top no snow will get in. Who wants their calves trapped in a heavy, sweaty plastic bag?

As for top layers, layering is the way forward you already know. In winter I find the following system works superbly: Base layer + lightweight softshell + breathable insulation layer + hardshell. The two midlayers can be treated as alternatives or piled on top of each other, with or without hardshell. The double mid-layer makes for comfortable summit picnics!!

You need to work out how many fewer layers to have on the sleeves, achieved by wearing a short sleeved base or insulation vest/gilet rather than jacket, as the arms don't enjoy too much padding. But you'll know what makes you comfortable.

Have a great winter. You'll be shopping for ice axes before you know it.
 Thunderbird7 19 Dec 2013
In reply to BnB:

So what about Buffalo shirts? I bought one last year and think its great but can't get my head round what else to carry as you can't exactly layer up over/under if you get cold. Other than putting goretex over the top and accepting the 'warm but damp' combination! (I am a swetty betty for want of a better expression!!)
In reply to Thunderbird7:

I Buffalo too, I have no idea why people would want to layer in the winter, far too much faff. I haven't come across conditions where I might want to put something on over/under my Special 6, but there certainly are conditions that might warrant it, and for those there are the Buffalo Mountain Jacket and the Parka.
 Ramblin dave 19 Dec 2013
In reply to BnB:


> As for top layers, layering is the way forward you already know. In winter I find the following system works superbly: Base layer + lightweight softshell + breathable insulation layer + hardshell. The two midlayers can be treated as alternatives or piled on top of each other, with or without hardshell. The double mid-layer makes for comfortable summit picnics!!

My approach is base layer + fleece / lightweight fleece / nothing (depending on conditions) + windshirt + sometimes a hardshell + synthetic belay jacket for stops. This is relatively cheap, very flexible and toasty warm.

Also, it's good to get a windshirt (or other outer layer) with pockets, so you can keep gloves, hats, buffs etc in them, and regulate your temperature (as you go from flat ground to uphill in a sheltered valley to level on a windy plateau, say) without having to stop and get stuff out of your bag.
 BnB 19 Dec 2013
In reply to SidharthaDongre:

Yes, who'd want to be perfectly comfortable and dry all day when you can stagger about bathed in your own sweat? People are so fussy. Next you'll be telling me the hills should be enjoyed not endured.
 Lucy Wallace 19 Dec 2013
In reply to BnB:

I recommend Bynje base layers for moisture management. Its an old concept but it works. The good old string vest. (not to be seen in public).
 BnB 19 Dec 2013
In reply to Snoweider:

> I recommend Bynje base layers for moisture management. Its an old concept but it works. The good old string vest. (not to be seen in public).

I'm expecting one to appear in my Christmas stocking.
In reply to BnB:

Why because unzipping two zips is so hard!
 kwoods 19 Dec 2013
In reply to craig1983:

Single best investment I've ever made were base layers, I don't actually know what I did before I started using these. Only got cheap ones and they're fantastic.

Give us a shout if you want to go out some time, always keen!
 BnB 19 Dec 2013
In reply to SidharthaDongre:

Perhaps you run cooler than me and each to their own, but I'd rather be uniformly conmfortable than hot in parts and cool in others. I don't in the least mind the faff of swapping layers five times a day if I stay dry and comfortably warm. That's all part of the joy of gear!!
 kwoods 19 Dec 2013
In reply to BnB:

I also go with the layers and it does me fine, I tend to find unzipping jacket/fleeces does a good job of getting heat out and you can always lift everything up for a mega heat dump.
In reply to BnB:
To be fair, I do run quite cold. Though still, it has to be ca. 0C to be enjoyable, or I need to be less active up to around 5C. In late spring, summer and early autumn, I also use a layering system, but in winter I find the layering system to be either too hot or too cold, all of the time, (perhaps I just haven't found the right combination of kit). All clothing combinations will come with a compromise, mainly due to the combination of neither the weather nor us being static and on this note indeed, the Buffalo is sweaty when active until approaching 0C, then below that it is the perfect solution, for me at least.

I absolutely love the fortress-like protection I feel when subjected to inclement and I can just sit off in my Special 6, it has an interesting quality. As does the numbing feel of a biting wind on my ribs when venting fully. The Special 6 itself actually becomes a part of my enjoyment, I can't think of many items of clothing that can feel that way.
Post edited at 13:00
 BnB 19 Dec 2013
In reply to SidharthaDongre:

I do love an item that makes you smile each time you put it on. It used to be my Marmot Goretex Pro hardshell, which shrugged off 100mph winds at 3700m in the Alps (now replaced for sizing reasons). This year it's the Rab Strata Hoodie active insulation.
 martinph78 19 Dec 2013
In reply to craig1983:

Wicking baselayer (Helly Lifa) and 100 weight fleece for most conditions. A lightweight waterproof/windproof over it for bad conditions, and a primaloft jacket over that lot for lunch (or down if it's properly winter).

A warmer baselayer if it's properly cold.

In reply to BnB:

Sounds like fun!
OP craig1983 19 Dec 2013
In reply to craig1983:

Some good advice coming through there, thanks folks!
OP craig1983 19 Dec 2013
In reply to kwoods:
> Give us a shout if you want to go out some time, always keen!

Will do Kev...doing a winter nav course with Kaeryn in January so will be keen to get out as much as possible

 BnB 19 Dec 2013
In reply to SidharthaDongre:

Absolutely. Though the same conditions were available at sea level on Skye this morning. Flipping windy!!
In reply to BnB:

I should hopefully be getting a similar battering this weekend around Cairn Gorm.
 girlymonkey 19 Dec 2013
In reply to craig1983:

So I guess you have found that there is no one answer - you just need to find what works for you! I'd go out in what you think you will need, have an extra layer or 2 with you incase, and be prepared to faff with removing things like baselayer trousers if you decide you don't need them, etc. After a few days out you will start to get a feel for how hot or cold you run in different conditions and start to work it out from there.
I run cold, and always have loads on. It's just a personal thing.
Enjoy, winter really is the best time in the hills
 Lucy Wallace 19 Dec 2013
In reply to BnB:

Fishnet stocking?
 BnB 19 Dec 2013
In reply to Snoweider:

> Fishnet stocking?

If I'm really lucky
 BnB 19 Dec 2013
In reply to SidharthaDongre: Good luck with that. Forecast is (relatively) decent. I've been putting tiles back on the roof this morning but hoping to hit the hills at the weekend. Avalanche alert by then if it keeps on snowing and drifting!!

mhart 19 Dec 2013
In reply to craig1983:

I tend to vary from going with a single warm baselayer (eg rab powerstretch zip) and a windshirt particularly for the walk in and ascent)-and replacing the windshirt with a insulated softshell (like Arcteryx Gamma MX hoody) when on the ridges or descending-and if necessary a insulation layer over that if really cold or having a break.

OR

the 3 layer system of thin baselayer, insulating layer of varying warmth depending on conditions, and a shell layer.

Still not sure which is best for me tbh.
 Siward 19 Dec 2013
In reply to Snoweider:


> Can't emphasize enough how important gloves and hats are. Have LOTS of spare gloves, even waterpoof ones will wet out eventually. I carry as a minimum 2 pairs of liners and 2 pairs of waterproof insulated gloves in winter.

If walking, as opposed to climbing, then I HIGHLY recommend a pair of buffalo mitts. Fantastic when it's wet, good for multiple days out too.


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