UKC

Went out for a meal last night and finished up sitting next to a chap who I only vaguely knew.

Half way through the main course he turned to me and said "Why do you hold your knife like that?" by which I assumed that he was referring to the fact that I was not holding my knife like a pen or pencil in the same manner as about four others at the table. At first I was gobsmacked but did manage to explain to him that I had been taught to hold my knife "that" way.(Flumoxed emoticon) Other than that I didn't really know what to say.

In reply to FesteringSore:
You shoulda licked your knife and then loaded the wrong side of your fork

In reply to FesteringSore:

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who hold their knife like a pen.....

having said that, does anyone actually get taught "table manners" these days?

In reply to Trangia:


Probably not - sadly. Go to any almost any restaurant and you will see the evidence.

In reply to FesteringSore:

I hear you there! Is this another aspect of American culture creeping in or just people are lazy these days?

In reply to FesteringSore:

Does it matter how people hold a knife and fork?

In reply to FesteringSore:

Another pet hate are people who start eating before everyone else has been served, unless invited to do so by those still waiting.

In reply to Submit to Gravity:


That wasn't my point(although, on a personal level I think it does)

In reply to crayefish:


Probably ;0)

In reply to Submit to Gravity:
I agree. Does how you hold your knife and fork really count as table manners?

Just read up on some table manners, turns out I am going to hell because I use my fork in my right hand and knife in left! My mother would be so ashamed.

In reply to FesteringSore:



I am noticing more and how many people sit down at a table with their hats on ( usually baseball) not just McDonald, I mean proper restaurants . It should not matter, but somehow it does.

In reply to FesteringSore:

The bloke obviously didn't have table manners for questioning yours.

In reply to Trangia:
Having said that, how many people actually eat at a table these days....?

As for the knife, how many options are there? So far I can see pen/scalpel , stiletto or dagger....

In reply to FesteringSore:
>> Does it matter how people hold a knife and fork?



Why, out of interest?

In reply to FesteringSore:


One of my daughters holds her knife nearly on the blade, so she gets her food all over the end of her finger. This does really wind me up. Worse is bringing her head to the plate, so she gets gravy on that too.
We only have perhaps a meal a month at the table as a family, so it's harsh to make too much fuss.
As a kid I remember my elbows frequently being smacked from the table, not daring to eat before my dad said so, and shovelling peas caused heads to spin. That's one of the reasons I prefer mushy ones.

I think the practice of holding a knife like a pen or scalpel has come about as a result of a few people believing it to look genteel. I don't think you really have the same degree of control holding a knife in that manner. I tried it with a steak once and it felt quite uncomfortable.

In reply to FesteringSore:

I don't care how people hold their cutlery so long as I can't hear them masticate. My step father sounds like a f***ing cow chewing cud and drives me to despair. I opt to sit as far away from him for this reason, and the fact he's got halitosis.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Chewing noise is bad but worse are the people who 'slurp' their food, ie. suck everything into their mouths with a huge quantity of air, even steak, bread etc. Then, at the end of the meal, you have to put up with the constant belching as their stomach vents the entrapped air. Drives me crazy! (One of the main culprits was the ex father in law!)

In reply to johncook:

My grandad used to pick up his pork chop at the end of the meal and suck the fat off it! I can still hear the noise, and see the grease running down his chin. He clearly enjoyed it.

In reply to FesteringSore:

Have always thought holding a knife like a pen, not a knife, looked silly , was an affectation and flouncy. Turns out that it means that your elbows naturally don't stick out as much. You do need pretty sharp blades though.

I hate to see people using cooking knives like a pen/scalpel position 2 with finger on top of the blade. i can almost picture the knife twisting and the consequences

In reply to Skol:

I wouldn't do that in public, but it's totally the best way to eat a chop.

Get the wife to try it! You'll either be entranced or terrified

In reply to thin bob:

We were taught table manners at primary school. I remember my parents being keen I ate properly for when I was grown up. As an adult, eating at high table in college, I remember seeing a lot of strange habits: soup spoon in the mouth, shovelling peas, loading fork while chewing, talking with mouth open, passing the port the wrong way, buttering the whole bread roll and doing so from the butter dish.

In reply to crayefish:


I'm always fascinated by the weird and various ways in which actors in US sitcoms hold a knife and fork. The Big Bang Theory is a particularly good example (they're often having meals, but rarely seen actually eating...)

In reply to FesteringSore:


Holding a knife like a scalpel has been regarded as the "correct" way since at least Victorian times.(assuming you would hold a scalpel as in the main pic below)

http://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-photos-hand-holding-scalpel-su...


See instructions here:

http://m.wikihow.com/Use-a-Fork-and-Knife-Properly

In reply to Postmanpat:

I had issues with this bit:

"Try laying the utensils down both together at an angle when finished, at a 11 o'clock to 4 o'clock positioning"...then I noticed it's an American website.

This is how we do it here

http://projectbritain.com/behaviourfood.html

Knife and fork together facing 12 o'clock, prongs upwards.

In reply to FesteringSore:

US is weird, IIRC it's something like cut everything up, then transfer fork to right hand and then use that to get food from plate to mouth.

In reply to captain paranoia:


And they only eat takeaways... every night! And despite being scientists with zero exercise in their lives, they stay skinny. The mind boggles.

In reply to crayefish:


They play paintball and walk a lot.

Is take away always unhealthy? It seems in the US, Chinese takeaway is more like staple food for Chinese people rather than the MSG ridden stuff we get.

In reply to Trangia:


Actually it is only polite to wait if the food is cold when served. Hot food should be consumed as it arrives, particularly relevant in bug cold stately homes where it can be a long journey from kitchen to table.

In reply to richprideaux:


Surely the onus rests on those waiting to take the initiative and do the polite thing and say "Do start , please don't wait for us"?

It might be just acceptable to drop a broad hint and say "Do you mind if we start before the food gets cold?", but I was taught that it is rude to start without being asked or asking.

It would be extremely rude if out on a date to dig in before your date's food had arrived.

Other conventions I was taught was to stand up when other gusts joined your table, to stand up if a lady left or rejoined the party at a table, although this needs to be done discretely so as not to draw attention to the fact that she is going to or is returning from "powdering her nose". Standing to help her with her chair is a discrete method of not drawing attention.

In reply to Trangia:


When it comes to manners, to me there is only one important thing, and that is to make other people feel relaxed and comfortable. At times, this means throwing convention to the four winds, at others, following the rules to the letter.

Of course, some rules I don't even realise exist, never having come into contact with them. If someone considered me rude for not following a rule that I wasn't aware of, then that would be a bit closed minded of them. Maybe it isn't that they consider me rude, just uneducated (and so therefore maybe someone that they can enjoy looking down at).

If I met someone who wasn't aware of rules, then the polite thing to do in my mind is to make them feel completely comfortable about it, one way or another.

In reply to tlm:

Spot on.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

I agree, its absolutely amazing how many so called well educated people chew with their mouths open. I remember being in a restaurant in Chamonix with my wife and having an oriental gentleman at the table next to us and the array and volume of noises (slurping smacking etc) almost made us leave. I used to be worse but I have the misfortune to be working for the past six years in a confined space with a few people who chew gum loudly and eat similarly. At first it was awful but now I have learned to tune out. Manners should be taught early.

In reply to richprideaux:


As I understand it (ie. the particular etiquette website wot I read it from says) it is customary to begin eating when your meal arrives when in a restaurant, but to wait until all diners are served when at a dinner party in someone's home.

In reply to Queenie:


Yeah; why the hell would you place your cutlery like that when you're finished? It just ensures that the waiter has to grab hold of the dirty end of at least one piece of cutlery. Placing the handles together allows the waiter to pick up the cutlery by the (hopefully, unless you're a very messy eater) clean handles.

In reply to FesteringSore: criticism of someone's manners is in itself bad manners.

In reply to The Big Man:



Not in circumstances where they should know better, but I agree, you can observe and note, but say nothing.

In reply to Trangia:

The only person who should know better is the person "offended" by the so called poor manners. There's a hell of a lot more to be offended about outwith soup slurping.

In reply to The Big Man:

One wouldn't use the word "offended" when observing crass behaviour at the dinner table, but one would probably make a mental note to remove them from one's list of future dinner guests....