UKC

Has anyone tried the Vipers with both the smaller and larger adze and hammer? Which did you prefer?

I do prefer ice climbing over mixed - but climbing in the UK I obviously partake in both. Typically I climb all over the UK, as well as a week of euroice per year.

As a subpoint how well does the titan pick climb ice? Especially very cold euroice? Is there much point in buying a pair of both titan and laser picks?

Cheers,
Stevo

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Yeah I certainly found it worth having both the big adze and hammer. The hammer especially is so much easier to use.

I have both picks. I keep the Laser in good condition for ice trips, and use the Titan for everything else.

In reply to HIGHTOWER:
I'm really trying to evaluate the differences of these two set ups, have you actually tried both the larger and smaller adze and hammer or have you only tried the larger versions?

If you've tried both can you give me a quick overview of the pros and cons of each (on both ice and mixed preferably)?

Obviously the larger hammer should be a bit easier to use however the micro hammer doesn't look much different to the hammer on the quarks and in practice i find that OK for the small amount of peg bashing I actually do.

I don't think I've ever used the hammer like a nut or the torqued the adze although I have certainly tried, perhaps I'm missing a trick but seeing as some of the more technical mixed tools don't even have a hammer or adze I don't think it can matter all that much.

Cheers,
Stevo

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Can't provide a comparison, but I went for the needle sports Scottish version - titan with large adze and hammer. As they are one of the few retailers to offer these set ups why not drop them a line.
I find the titan goes into ice fine - but can be a struggle removing it - I often end up pulling from above. But given the breakage reports for the lasers it does feel secure and beefy.
I agree - a small hammer prob works fine, but a large adze will give more options for clearing, cutting and torquing or putting into slots.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

I've got Reactors - so similar shape but with a handle. Started out with Lasers and micro hammers, then got the beefy cross-country picks with teeth on the top (are those Titans - I really can't remember) a big adze and a big hammer. THat's the standard configuration for me now - anything that's hit stays hit.

I've rounded-off the teeth on the top of the pick quite a lot, as it really used to get stuck. It's still jaggy enough to be a useful thjing to jam in this and that.

In reply to steveshaking:

are the lasers really prone to breaking. I heard there was a problem many moons ago but not heard anything bad for quite some years.

In reply to nniff:

I think those are the fusion picks. Titans are more suitable if you also want to climb some ice.....

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Yeah I've used both. Like I said, the hammer's been the most noticeable difference. It's more the fact that it sticks out further, rather than it just being bigger, if that makes sense. Means the curve of the axe doesn't get in the way as much. Like you I don't use pegs that much, but it's been useful for bulldog placements.

The only downside is them making the axes slightly heavier, but they still swing nicely. Plus it would be easy to swap the smaller ones back on for an ice trip if you wanted, but I've never bothered.

Hope this helps.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=570757
Gives some discussion on laser pick breakage and the suggestion it's a north American phenomenon. It's always hard to get a real idea about things like this as it' a self selecting group raising the issue. But I'm not aware of other brands where people think pick are breaking or bending when you wouldn't expect it. perhaps its that lasers are the default pick but then get used in typical uk mixed stuff which they arent designed for?

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Hi Stevo, I've got the full set up for Vipers with both Adzes, both hammers, Titan and Laser. I have had my axes set up with two hammers for over three years now and I haven't used the adze's at all (I do use pegs though, especially on The Ben). I find the larger hammer ideal for peg bashing. My Titan picks are just about trashed and I only use my laser picks for cascade climbing. I can't see any user (for me) of the larger adze unless I was intending to mountaineer in the Greater ranges or Patagonia it's all personal though isn't it. As said by other posters the large hammer is useful.

My mate has bought a pair of these this year:http://krukonogi.com/en/ice-drytooling.html?cat=4&compatible_with_axes=...

They are awesome! He has the armour steel version that must be made from Russian tanks! I'll be buying some as well as crampon points.

Hope that contributes,
Dave

In reply to CurlyStevo:

The big adze makes a real difference but I found the small hammer OK. Maybe not better, but does the job.