/ Cleaning routes

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J.A.Thomson - on 14 Jan 2014
can some one answer me to what dagger can i clean a sea cliff route
rhudson on 14 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

Eh?
Franco Cookson on 14 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

top dagger normally deserves the pirate. Beware of retro clams, if it's a decent line though.
Kevster - on 14 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

Degree?

I'd say respect the environment and rock, and don't manufacture a route just 'cos you fancy a new line. However new routes will have loose stuff on, so need cleaning. Extent I am sure others with more authority will advise.

Many sea cliffs are in protected areas. Tops and life may be rare/ protected. Maybe consult more than ukc?
Iain Peters - on 14 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

I guess you may mean degree. Of recent years there has been a move away from the agent orange type approach, so if your line is very heavily vegetated probably best to leave it alone. On the other hand removing loose flakes/holds or cleaning out a crack. Seems like you may have a line in mind on the N Devon or Cornwall Coast. If you do it please contact myself or Mark Kemball with a description for possible inclusion in the new guide.
Bulls Crack - on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

If it has a designation ie SSSI then none without agreement
Iain Peters - on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> If it has a designation ie SSSI then none without agreement

If I'm correct in where the OP's potential new route might be situated there are currently very few SSSIs on the ND&C coast. The nearest very sensitive sea-cliffs (Lundy apart) are in West Cornwall and parts of The Lizard. In fact the only bird restrictions on this coast are at Baggy. That said Peregrines nest all along the coast and I know of at least 4 nesting sites where there is evidence of a nest. Personally I wouldn't put up a new route in the vicinity.

That said all of the coastline is privately owned, much of it by the NT, and could therefore be subject to any changes into climbing access the Trust might decide to enforce in the future.
J.A.Thomson - on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Iain Peters:

Its funny you say that, I've got three new routes I've got my eye on and none of them need cleaning. The route I was thinking of cleaning over the winter before the birds turn up is the heart of sun, the last pitch at baggy which I think deserves the time and what does SSSI mean?
Iain Peters - on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

Which pitch of HoS are you referring to or is it the whole route? I wouldn't think there was any issue over the first pitch if it needs it, but the original final pitch rather than the traverse into Pink Void has been inspected on many an occasion in recent years and pronounced c..p. SSSI is a Site of Special Scientific Interest.
cuppatea on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Iain Peters:

When's the new guide due out, Iain?
The Pylon King on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Iain Peters:

Hmm...... Scientific interest?...like the atomic bomb?
J.A.Thomson - on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Iain Peters:

Is there any way I can find out what places are under the SSSI? it was just the last route I was thinking of and when is the new guide print due?
Mark Kemball - on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

We're a long way off the new guide at the moment, at least a couple of years I should think.
Mark Kemball - on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

JAT - I tried to contact you for more information about your routes at Steeple Point / Duckpool and Morwena Slabs when we first started work on the guide a year or so ago. Could you get in touch as other people have also climbed here and we'd like to sort out who did what and when!
J.A.Thomson - on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Mark Kemball:

Hi mark, what did you want to no, and can you answer my question about cleaning routs. If you would rather to contact me by phone i can give you a number
cuppatea on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Mark Kemball:

> We're a long way off the new guide at the moment, at least a couple of years I should think.

Look forward to it!
Mark Kemball - on 16 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

Cleaning - on the Culm, it's fine to abseil down to remove loose rock and dig the grass out of cracks for gear placements. It's probably more fun to do this on the lead but...

There's a lot of new stuff going up on the Culm at the moment, so you might find yourself climbing something that has already been climbed!

I was particularly interested in your route JAT, http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=225050 did you lead it or not? Also, what did you climb at Morwenna Slabs? You put some lines on your photo http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=197887 I suspect they've probably disappeared in the recent storms but...

It would be great if you could email me with details of any new routes in the area so we can get them in the new guide. Email via UKC and I'll get back to you.

Cheers,
Mark.
alexjz - on 16 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

> Is there any way I can find out what places are under the SSSI? it was just the last route I was thinking of and when is the new guide print due?

Yes. http://magic.defra.gov.uk/MagicMap.aspx

This interactive map is very useful for that kind of stuff. It shows all designations, including SSSI, AONB, etc etc. Select the ones you want to appear on the map in the table of contents on the left of the screen.

For SSSI:
- designations
- land-based
- statutory
- Sites of Special Scientific Interest (Choose England, Wales or Scotland)
scott quinn - on 16 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

Seems your all making life over complicated check the crag on the bmc's website it covers sssi's, bird restrictions, current access etc...https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/

And just give the route a good scrub with a stiff brush...not a wire one.

Happy climbing!

alexjz - on 16 Jan 2014
In reply to scott quinn:

If you're cleaning a route, there's the possibility it's on a crag not covered by the BMC
scott quinn - on 16 Jan 2014
In reply to alexjz:

Ahhh ofcourse.... 10 points to you sir!
Think I will favourite that link after all :)

Iain Peters - on 16 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

It's over ten years since the last ND&C guide came out and there's been a mass of development all along the coast, not just new routes but whole new crags. With no single source of information on where these might be situated it's no surprise that there is some confusion as to whether route X on crag Y is in fact new. Added to this, many excellent existing routes, particularly those not featured in the later selected guides have received very few ascents and therefore vegetation has grown back. The CC and Javu new routes websites are good but generally the descriptions relate to the existing guide. Suggest you send all details/queries to Mark and myself preferably with a good map or GPS reference.
Al Evans on 16 Jan 2014
In reply to Iain Peters:

Didn't some classics of yours at Exmansworthy dissapear suddenly, they were great routes as I remember, about E3 and arguably 3 stars. I wondered if they had ever been cleaned and re-climbed?
Mark Kemball - on 16 Jan 2014
In reply to Al Evans:

I've been in recently - very badly affected by massive rock falls and unstable rock. Details at http://www.javu.co.uk/Climbing/NewRoutes/NorthDevonandCornwall/NorthDevonCornwall.shtml#exmansworthy and http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=676 With the recent storms, things may well be worse! Stu Bradbury is writing the guide, and I have his draft script and some topos for what's left! If anyone is going in there and wants more info, get in touch. Also any updates would be appreciated.
J.A.Thomson - on 16 Jan 2014
In reply to Al Evans:

I think your need more than a brush to get that crag back lol
Iain Peters - on 16 Jan 2014
In reply to Al Evans:

Al, sadly all the routes on the LHS of the crag have gone, including Whillance's Culm Dancing. I guess we'll have to make a visit soon to check out whether it's still there!
Mark Kemball - on 16 Jan 2014
In reply to Iain Peters:

Not so Iain, they are still there, but shorter see http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=38016 however the top of the wall is horrendous - loose boulders and scree. The safest way to climb is to arrange your ab so that you end up at the top of shadow walker wall (see Stu's complicated explanation on Javu), then ab down from your ab rope and use the ab rope for a belay when you get to the top. To escape, prusik back up the ab rope.
Al Evans on 17 Jan 2014
In reply to Mark Kemball:

Thats one of the routes we did Shadow Walker, good route, sad loss.
Iain Peters - on 17 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

Correction. I have just been sent Stu Bradbury's recent topo of Exmansworthy, and Tactical Retreat and the routes on the main slab including Culm Dancing and Shadow Walker are still intact (unless recent storms have altered things as Mark has already pointed out). The routes are shorter due to rock fall from the upper cliff and it's still one of the more serious crags on the coast, but for quality extreme climbing in a magnificently isolated setting it's well worth the complex access approach, and one of the finest top end Cum routes of the last twenty years, Crocker's The Exman Cometh E7 awaits a second ascent. If anyone's interested in this or many other great routes along the coast, contact Mark Kemball or myself as we may well have up-to-date descriptions and photos.
J.A.Thomson - on 17 Jan 2014
In reply to Mark Kemball:

What i've put on ukc is correct, i top roped it on 11 MAY 2012 and then lead it on 26 AUG 2012, which i have recorded on my gopro camera attached to my helmet, good film. Morwenna was a really good day out fun approach, but all that climbing was really loose at the top i will be surprised if it is still there after this storm all the lines in red me and hans did. I hope this helps. I hope i can get over this knee injury because two of the climbs i've got my eye on deserves to be in the book and are really good and very hard routes, if i can't i might let someone else do them, bloody knee.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Mark Kemball - on 17 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

Well, when I went to Morwenna Slabs a year ago (checking my photos) your left line had fallen down and it didn't feel like Time Critical Injury would last much longer.
Mike (who's writing the Duckpool guide has credited you with the FA of JAT, we'll just have to make sure we get the dates right. There's a possibility that it may have been climbed earlier though as Lee Bartrop has done something in that area - will have to drag him there to see if he can remember what he did!
J.A.Thomson - on 20 Jan 2014
In reply to Iain Peters:

Hi in the north Devon and Cornwall book you did (i've worked out who you are now). Thanks for making climbing more accessable by doing the book. Are you going to be putting anything from Exmoor coast like the one you did in the 80s? and did you have anything on Exmoor coast like of yellow stone? Will have to go down to Exmansworthy, always like the sound of cat burglar. thank you
Mark Kemball - on 20 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

The Exmoor Coast will not be in the North Devon and Cornwall guide. I believe a script is in preparation, it will probably go in with either Somerset or Baggy Point. Iain may well know more than I do, but the whole thing is under discussion and a decision will probably depend upon the size of the scripts for the various crags.
J.A.Thomson - on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Mark Kemball:

Do you know anything on yellow stone?
Pegs can you still place pegs?
Thank you
Frank the Husky - on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

Can we still place pegs? No one seems to bat an eyelid when sponsored heroes do it so I assume it's OK for the rest of us.
The Pylon King on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Frank the Husky:

whackemin
Mark Kemball - on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Frank the Husky:

It's generally considered OK to place pegs on new routes and replace them if necessary on old ones on the North Coast (Atlantic Coast and Culm), however, since the things rust, it's better to manage without them if you can. If you place them, it's worth considering if it is better to take them out after the climb rather than leave them in-situ. This is debatable - is the route likely to be repeated before the pegs rust away? If the peg rusts in situ will it still be possible to replace it?
It is not, however, acceptable to place pegs on existing routes where there have not been pegs in the past. (A lot of unnecessary pegs seem to appear from time to time on Wreckers' Slab, these often get "harvested" by local activists for use on their own routes.)

Note, none of the above applies to West Penwith - this was debated at a BMC area meeting some time ago, at which it was agreed that no new fixed gear should be placed and that any existing gear should be left to rust in peace.
Mark Kemball - on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to J.A.Thomson:

> Do you know anything on yellow stone?

I don't know Yellow Stone, is it on the Exmoor Coast? Could you post a link to the UKC logbook database if it's on there? (I tried searching for it unsuccessfully.)
John Willson - on 22 Jan 2014
In reply to Mark Kemball:

Valley of Rocks area, Exmoor. Some Crocker/Harwood/Cheek et al. development going back to the 1990s.
dartfrog on 29 Jan 2014
The E7 at Exmansworthy sounds epic. How is the gear and state of that climb. Out of curiosity it would be good to see that area.

By the way Ian suggests it awaits a second ascent it sounds like a classic. Any photo info out there?


D
Mark Kemball - on 29 Jan 2014
In reply to dartfrog:

You have mail.
dartfrog on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to Mark Kemball:

Hi Mark, did you get my email. Let us know.

regards,

D
johncoxmysteriously - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to Mark Kemball:

>The Exmoor Coast will not be in the North Devon and Cornwall guide. I believe a script is in preparation, it will probably go in with either Somerset or Baggy Point

Isn't Baggy in North Devon?!

jcm
Iain Peters - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
It is. When Mark posted it wasn't but now it will be going into the new ND&C guide, Baggy that is but not the Exmoor Coast or the ECT.
Post edited at 18:08
Mark Kemball - on 08 Feb 2014
In reply to dartfrog:

Yes, cheers, you should now have mail!

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