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HGVs and Mirrors

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 FesteringSore 15 Jan 2014
I was driving south on the M6 today. I was doing a steady 70 in the middle lane overtaking slower traffic including, inevitably HGVs. Faster traffic was passing me in the outer lane.

On three separate occasions I had HGVs pull out of the inner lane in front of me and doing so to the extent that I had to brake sharply.

These chaps regard themselves as professional drivers but were they never taught about mirrors. I think they are so intent on maintaining their speed to overhaul a (marginally) slower HGVs that they forget about other road users.
 Skol 15 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

I'm pretty sure that Hgvs have a blind spot in there mirrors. there was a good advert for cycling safety, but I can't find it. However it was the drivers view from his near side mirror with nothing in it. But in reality there were ten or so cyclists!
 lost1977 15 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

A YouTube search of HGV blind spots will give a clearer picture but they do have a few small blond spots
 mark s 15 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

i used to drive artics on motorways,you can see alot more than cars down the off side.
chances are the driver has looked and seen your outside lane was clear enough to jump into.
ive pulled out on cars as long as they have some where to go.
 stewieatb 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Skol:

Usually the blind spot is directly below and for some distance behind the door mirror on each side. Hence, cyclist trap. That's no excuse for not seeing a car some distance behind the rear of the lorry.

OP: I suspect they rely on the fact that they're the biggest things on the road, so nobody's going to not brake if they pull out in front. It's irresponsible, and a minority that do it, but annoying I agree.
 Greenbanks 15 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

I can see this rapidly descending into a 'Kick the HGV Driver' thread. I drive about 25k per year mainly on motorways. Believe me, HGVs are the least of our problems
 Skol 15 Jan 2014
In reply to stewieatb:
Fair enough. Mark above has probably hit the nail on the head. I pull out to overtake if a car is in the middle lane and can, but isn't indicating to move to the outside lane. ( if there is sufficient distance to do so I must add )
In reply to Greenbanks:

I do a fair amount of motorway miles as well and I'd say your about right mate.
 Skol 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Greenbanks:

> I can see this rapidly descending into a 'Kick the HGV Driver' thread. I drive about 25k per year mainly on motorways. Believe me, HGVs are the least of our problems

Yeah. It's the car drivers mainly in beemers and 4x4's. Suited or chavvy women are as bad as suited men. Chavvy men don't seem to be a problem on motorways, just on lanes and A roads
 NathanP 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Greenbanks:

I also do a fairly high motorway mileage, about 30k. Pulling out into the middle lane, a decent distance ahead of a faster car that can go into the outside lane seems fair enough to me, no problem. There also seem to be a substantial minority of HGV drivers pulling out to overtake, a short distance in front, on 2-lane roads. Not so OK in my view.
OP FesteringSore 15 Jan 2014
In reply to mark s:

> i used to drive artics on motorways,you can see alot more than cars down the off side.

> chances are the driver has looked and seen your outside lane was clear enough to jump into.

It wasn't.

> ive pulled out on cars as long as they have some where to go.
I didn't
 Rob Exile Ward 15 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

Sitting in the middle lane is a hanging offence.

At a guess I've driven really quite a lot more than you and HGV drivers are fine. It's people who sit in the middle lane, don't know what's happening and what's likely to happen who are the problem.
All the Gear, No Idea 15 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

one of the MANY things in this world we are not going to change,
Yes professional drivers, A lot without professional attitudes,
Now I am by my own admission not a great driver, I have worked as a lorry driver, I don't now though.
But there are many drivers of Lorries, cars, Vans & Motorcycles, as bad as each other
I have used all 4 plus cycle a bit, drive defensively ,,,as my Dad told me
"assume every other c*nt on the road is trying to kill you"
 MG 15 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

> It wasn't.

> I didn't

Clearly you did because you weren't squash flat.
 MG 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> Sitting in the middle lane is a hanging offence.

At best. I have never quite had the nerve to do "laps" around a car in the middle lane. One day I might.
 Andy Hardy 16 Jan 2014
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

To be fair the OP said he was overtaking stuff in lane 1 and being overtaken by cars in lane 3, which is why he had to brake when the truck pulled out.
OP FesteringSore 16 Jan 2014
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Second sentence of OP - Learn to read. "...overtaking..."

"At a guess I've driven really quite a lot more than you"

At a guess, somebody who makes such comments without foundation is a prat.
Post edited at 08:31
 Rob Exile Ward 16 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

It was guess inferred from your description and the fact that I drive a lot, 20 - 40,000 miles a year, and have done for 40+ years. So is my guess correct?

As for HGV, this has been covered many times. If they are coming up to a slower vehicle in front they need to pull out when they can - they don't have the option of accelerating, and if they're forced to slow down it takes them a long time to make it up again. It's sensible driving to anticipate what they are likely to do and make allowance for it - and in cars, we have a lot more options than they do.
OP FesteringSore 16 Jan 2014
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Your assumptions regarding our relative driving expertise and experience are nothing short of arrogant.
 Rob Exile Ward 16 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

My driving record was just a statement of fact, nothing arrogant about it. And you posed a question in your OP, which I felt reasonably experienced to answer. Sorry if it wasn't the answer you were looking for ('yes HGV drivers are killers'), better luck next time.
 Blue Straggler 16 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

> Your assumptions regarding our relative driving expertise and experience are nothing short of arrogant.

I'm pretty sure that you have mentioned being in your 40s. So unless you started driving 20 - 40,000 miles per year before you reached the age of ten, I think Rob's claim is fair and not arrogant!
 1poundSOCKS 16 Jan 2014
In reply to Rob Exile Ward: I think it might be worth paying some attention to how small a gap HGV drivers leave between each other, especially in the left hand lane. It's regularly not more than a small number of metres, and they're travelling about 60mph. I'm not sure that's a good idea.

 Rob Exile Ward 16 Jan 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

It's a fair point, though at a guess if they left much more of a gap someone else would only nip in.
 1poundSOCKS 16 Jan 2014
In reply to Rob Exile Ward: They can do yes, I say that from a lot of experience of driving slowly on the motorway.

Although you only have to slow down slightly to quickly create a new gap, and it's not that bad. I don't drive an HGV though. It's not that HGV drivers are necessarily the worst drivers, it's just that they're the biggest, scariest thing on the road, so you tend to notice them more. If there was pile up, it's the thing you don't want to be close to, that's for sure.

 ByEek 16 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

Were you in their blind spot per chance? Many years ago, I was slowly overtaking an HGV in the middle lane. It wasn't moving much faster than the slow lane so my speed was kind of dictated to me. Just as I drew level with the front of the cab, he pulled into me resulting in me being pushed in front of the lorry and then spinning off onto the hard shoulder.

Lessons learned:
1. You will always come of worse in any incident with an HGV. My car was a write off. He got a bit of paint on his bumper.
2. Always assume HGV drivers can't see you. They may be professional, but they have monotonous jobs have more blind spots than you can shake a stick at.
3. When overtaking HGVs I now either do it at speed and don't linger in their shadow, or pull into the fast lane to leave a one lane buffer. Always remember to pull back into the middle lane well ahead of said HGV.
4. Always be very wary if you see a convoy of HGVs in the slow lane. Chances are, one is going to try and overtake at some point.
 mark s 16 Jan 2014
In reply to ByEek:

as others have said,its about reading what others are going to do.truck approaching slower truck is only going to mean one of two options
so hardly a surprise.
 Jim Fraser 16 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:

The 90 km/h limiter has a lot to answer for. Speed limits at 60 or 70 and limiters set to 56: what did anyone expect to happen.
adamtc 16 Jan 2014
In reply to 999thAndy:

Isn't that what brakes and forward observation are for?

If you are overtaking traffic I would hope that you are watching what the traffic you're passing is doing, adjusting your speed and position accordingly.
 LastBoyScout 16 Jan 2014
In reply to FesteringSore:
Had an HGV try and pull out in front of me this morning. Not sure what he thought I was going to do about it - letting him out would have meant some quite very heavy braking! I didn't have another lane to pull into, there was nothing behind me, nothing in front of me and the speed differential meant that I'd be past him in about 100m, still leaving him with nearly a mile of junction to change roads.

My Dad always told us that indicators tell everyone else what you would like to do - not what you are going to do, not what you've just done and certainly not what anyone else has to let you do.

Would be handy, though, if HGVs, particularly, started indicating earlier, rather than what seems to be an "indicate and go" policy.
Post edited at 17:54

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