This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
My 13 year old daughter would like to. She's currently listening to Radio nan Gaidheal on i-player, and I've lent her my copy of Sorley Maclean/ Somhairle Mac Gill-Eain... but what does the UKC collective brain recommend for her, please?
Yes, Toby, of course she should be doing it at school anyway
Yes, Toby, of course she should be doing it at school anyway
0In reply to Tim Chappell:
There's an interactive course on bbc Scotland's interactive website that is pretty straightforward (as gaelic goes). A knowledge of German, or other northern european languages helps a great deal with Gaelic
Cant be arsed to find the link for you, but you're an intelligent man- you'll find it.
hth
There's an interactive course on bbc Scotland's interactive website that is pretty straightforward (as gaelic goes). A knowledge of German, or other northern european languages helps a great deal with Gaelic
Cant be arsed to find the link for you, but you're an intelligent man- you'll find it.
hth
In reply to crustypunkuk:
I'm not half as intelligent as google--is this what you meant?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/
I'm not half as intelligent as google--is this what you meant?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/
In reply to crustypunkuk:
Not really. Different language family entirely; German is no more use than English. There are a few words of Latin origin in Gaelic.
Tim - Yes, I suspect that's the one that's being referred to. It's quite good.
> A knowledge of German, or other northern european languages helps a great deal with Gaelic
Not really. Different language family entirely; German is no more use than English. There are a few words of Latin origin in Gaelic.
Tim - Yes, I suspect that's the one that's being referred to. It's quite good.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
As recommended somewhere on here before by someone else I use memrise for learning vocab in French and German.
They also have Irish and Scots Gaelic. There might be something on there.
http://www.memrise.com/courses/english/scottish-gaelic/
As recommended somewhere on here before by someone else I use memrise for learning vocab in French and German.
They also have Irish and Scots Gaelic. There might be something on there.
http://www.memrise.com/courses/english/scottish-gaelic/
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
Really? I'd have put them as having a common ancestor somewhere in the distant past. I certainly found my knowledge of German helped me with pronunciation of Gaelic, and with the similarities of certain words.
Really? I'd have put them as having a common ancestor somewhere in the distant past. I certainly found my knowledge of German helped me with pronunciation of Gaelic, and with the similarities of certain words.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Why? It's like learning Latin or ancient Greek or Cornish, it's a dead language of interest only to scholars and archeologists. Fair enough, the Tower of Babel has a lot to answer for, if we had a universal language I suspect there would be less strife in the world.
Why? It's like learning Latin or ancient Greek or Cornish, it's a dead language of interest only to scholars and archeologists. Fair enough, the Tower of Babel has a lot to answer for, if we had a universal language I suspect there would be less strife in the world.
In reply to Al Evans:
Utterly wrong on all counts, Al.
(a) Dead languages are not "of interest only to scholars and archeologists". They're of interest to anyone with an open and curious mind. They're not, I grant you, of interest to boorish, lowest-common-denominator philistines; but then nothing that they don't already know is, that's the point about BLCDPs.
(b) Gaelic isn't a dead language. There are people on this site who speak it, some of them, I believe, as their mother tongue.
(c) A language is a pair of spectacles through which we see the world. It encodes a culture and a history and a collective memory and a literature. Once that language is gone, that encoding is gone. For ever. This is a bad thing.
(d) Cultural diversity like I'm recommending doesn't lead to strife; cultural imperialism like you're recommending does.
Now. Back to the Gaelic recos, please...
Utterly wrong on all counts, Al.
(a) Dead languages are not "of interest only to scholars and archeologists". They're of interest to anyone with an open and curious mind. They're not, I grant you, of interest to boorish, lowest-common-denominator philistines; but then nothing that they don't already know is, that's the point about BLCDPs.
(b) Gaelic isn't a dead language. There are people on this site who speak it, some of them, I believe, as their mother tongue.
(c) A language is a pair of spectacles through which we see the world. It encodes a culture and a history and a collective memory and a literature. Once that language is gone, that encoding is gone. For ever. This is a bad thing.
(d) Cultural diversity like I'm recommending doesn't lead to strife; cultural imperialism like you're recommending does.
Now. Back to the Gaelic recos, please...
Post edited at 09:48
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Good luck to her! Its a beautiful language, especially in song, but damned hard to learn (as my own experience of schooling in Ireland showed). This certainly strikes a cord with me:
http://www.bitesizeirishgaelic.com/blog/gaelic-difficult-to-learn/
I wish my own expereince had been different. A rule book of small print about two inches thick. No pictures either!
Good luck to her! Its a beautiful language, especially in song, but damned hard to learn (as my own experience of schooling in Ireland showed). This certainly strikes a cord with me:
http://www.bitesizeirishgaelic.com/blog/gaelic-difficult-to-learn/
I wish my own expereince had been different. A rule book of small print about two inches thick. No pictures either!
In reply to crustypunkuk:
They're both Indo-European languages. But German comes from Gothic (an *extremely* interesting dead language), and Gaelic comes (I think) from proto-Goidelic (ditto). Gothic and proto-Goidelic were still being spoken around the time of Constantine the Great. Their origins in the actual Indo-European are way back before this.
There are obvious family similarities across nearly all IE languages which come out particularly in the number-words, one to twelve, and in the family-words: father, mother, brother and to a lesser extent sister are often said with virtually the same word in languages from Portugal to Bengal.
If you go on this page you can hear a tale told in reconstructed proto-Indo-European, which if the linguists are right is what the "Aryans" (uh oh) spoke 6000 years ago. Anyone who's read some Homer in Greek will see some striking parallels.
http://www.archaeology.org/exclusives/articles/1302-proto-indo-european-sch...
They're both Indo-European languages. But German comes from Gothic (an *extremely* interesting dead language), and Gaelic comes (I think) from proto-Goidelic (ditto). Gothic and proto-Goidelic were still being spoken around the time of Constantine the Great. Their origins in the actual Indo-European are way back before this.
There are obvious family similarities across nearly all IE languages which come out particularly in the number-words, one to twelve, and in the family-words: father, mother, brother and to a lesser extent sister are often said with virtually the same word in languages from Portugal to Bengal.
If you go on this page you can hear a tale told in reconstructed proto-Indo-European, which if the linguists are right is what the "Aryans" (uh oh) spoke 6000 years ago. Anyone who's read some Homer in Greek will see some striking parallels.
http://www.archaeology.org/exclusives/articles/1302-proto-indo-european-sch...
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Its common in Ireland for visitors to end up in the wrong toilets when out in the pub or club as these are often labelled 'fir' and 'mna'. An understandable assumption, for the English speaker, is to assume 'fir' means woman (female) and 'mna' men.
They usually soon find out its the other way around.
> (In reply to crustypunkuk)
>
and in the family-words: father, mother....>
Its common in Ireland for visitors to end up in the wrong toilets when out in the pub or club as these are often labelled 'fir' and 'mna'. An understandable assumption, for the English speaker, is to assume 'fir' means woman (female) and 'mna' men.
They usually soon find out its the other way around.
In reply to Flinticus:
"A lady lecturing recently on the Irish language drew attention to the fact (I mentioned it myself as long ago as 1925) that, while the average English speaker gets along with a mere 400 words, the Irish-speaking peasant uses 4000. Considering what most English speakers can achieve with their tiny fund of noises, it is a nice speculation to what extremity one would be reduced if one were locked up for a day with an Irish-speaking bore and bereft of all means of committing murder or suicide.
My point, however, is this. The 400/4000 ration is fallacious; 400/400000 would be more like it. There is scarcely a single word in the Irish (barring, possibly, Sasanach) that is simple and explicit. Apart from words with endless shades of cognate meaning, there are many with so complete a spectrum of graduated ambiguity that each of them can be made to express two directly contrary meanings, as well as a plethora of intermediate concepts that have no bearing on either. And all this strictly within the linguistic field. Superimpose on all that the miasma of ironic usage, poetic licence, oxymoron, plamás, Celtic evasion, Irish bullery and Paddy Whackery, and it a safe bet that you will find yourself very far from home. Here is an example copied from Dinneen and from more authentic sources known only to my little self:
Cur, g. curtha and cuirthe, m.—act of putting, sending, sowing, raining, discussing, burying, vomiting, hammering into the ground, throwing through the air, rejecting, shooting, the setting or clamp in a rick of turf, selling, addressing, the crown of cast-iron buttons which have been made bright by contact with cliff-faces, the stench of congealing badger's suet, the luminance of glue-lice, a noise made in an empty house by an unauthorised person, a heron's boil, a leprachaun's denture, a sheep-biscuit, the act of inflating hare's offal with a bicycle pump, a leak in a spirit level, the whine of a sewage farm windmill, a corncrake's clapper, the scum on the eye of a senile ram, a dustman's dumpling, a beetle's faggot, the act of loading every rift with ore, a dumb man's curse, a blasket, a 'kur', a fiddler's occupational disease, a fairy godmother's father, a hawk's vertigo, the art of predicting past events, a wooden coat, a custard-mincer, a blue-bottle's 'farm', a gravy flask, a timber-mine, a toy craw, a porridge-mill, a fair-day donnybrook with nothing barred, a stoat's stomach-pump, a broken—
But what is the use? One could go on and on without reaching anywhere in particular.
Your paltry English speaker apprehends sea-going craft through the infantile cognition which merely distinguishes the small from the big. If it's small, it's a boat, and if it's big it's a ship. In his great book An tOileánach, however, the uneducated Tomás Ó Criomhthain uses, perhaps, a dozen words to convey the concept of varying super-marinity — árthrach long, soitheach, bád, naomhóg, bád raice, galbhád, púcán and whatever you are having yourself.
The plight of the English speaker with his wretched box of 400 vocal beads may be imagined when I say that a really good Irish speaker would blurt out the whole 400 in one cosmic grunt. In Donegal there are native speakers who know so many million words that it is a matter of pride with them never to use the same word twice in a life-time. Their life (not to say their language) becomes very complex at the century mark; but there you are. "
- Flann O'Brien
> Good luck to her! Its a beautiful language, especially in song, but damned hard to learn (as my own experience of schooling in Ireland showed).
"A lady lecturing recently on the Irish language drew attention to the fact (I mentioned it myself as long ago as 1925) that, while the average English speaker gets along with a mere 400 words, the Irish-speaking peasant uses 4000. Considering what most English speakers can achieve with their tiny fund of noises, it is a nice speculation to what extremity one would be reduced if one were locked up for a day with an Irish-speaking bore and bereft of all means of committing murder or suicide.
My point, however, is this. The 400/4000 ration is fallacious; 400/400000 would be more like it. There is scarcely a single word in the Irish (barring, possibly, Sasanach) that is simple and explicit. Apart from words with endless shades of cognate meaning, there are many with so complete a spectrum of graduated ambiguity that each of them can be made to express two directly contrary meanings, as well as a plethora of intermediate concepts that have no bearing on either. And all this strictly within the linguistic field. Superimpose on all that the miasma of ironic usage, poetic licence, oxymoron, plamás, Celtic evasion, Irish bullery and Paddy Whackery, and it a safe bet that you will find yourself very far from home. Here is an example copied from Dinneen and from more authentic sources known only to my little self:
Cur, g. curtha and cuirthe, m.—act of putting, sending, sowing, raining, discussing, burying, vomiting, hammering into the ground, throwing through the air, rejecting, shooting, the setting or clamp in a rick of turf, selling, addressing, the crown of cast-iron buttons which have been made bright by contact with cliff-faces, the stench of congealing badger's suet, the luminance of glue-lice, a noise made in an empty house by an unauthorised person, a heron's boil, a leprachaun's denture, a sheep-biscuit, the act of inflating hare's offal with a bicycle pump, a leak in a spirit level, the whine of a sewage farm windmill, a corncrake's clapper, the scum on the eye of a senile ram, a dustman's dumpling, a beetle's faggot, the act of loading every rift with ore, a dumb man's curse, a blasket, a 'kur', a fiddler's occupational disease, a fairy godmother's father, a hawk's vertigo, the art of predicting past events, a wooden coat, a custard-mincer, a blue-bottle's 'farm', a gravy flask, a timber-mine, a toy craw, a porridge-mill, a fair-day donnybrook with nothing barred, a stoat's stomach-pump, a broken—
But what is the use? One could go on and on without reaching anywhere in particular.
Your paltry English speaker apprehends sea-going craft through the infantile cognition which merely distinguishes the small from the big. If it's small, it's a boat, and if it's big it's a ship. In his great book An tOileánach, however, the uneducated Tomás Ó Criomhthain uses, perhaps, a dozen words to convey the concept of varying super-marinity — árthrach long, soitheach, bád, naomhóg, bád raice, galbhád, púcán and whatever you are having yourself.
The plight of the English speaker with his wretched box of 400 vocal beads may be imagined when I say that a really good Irish speaker would blurt out the whole 400 in one cosmic grunt. In Donegal there are native speakers who know so many million words that it is a matter of pride with them never to use the same word twice in a life-time. Their life (not to say their language) becomes very complex at the century mark; but there you are. "
- Flann O'Brien
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I'm a Welsh speaker, and my wife, Gujerati. Living as a family in the middle of England though, we all speak only English at home. Our kids are all interested in picking up bits of Welsh/Gujerati but without hearing them spoken at home all the time, I don't think it's very easy to progress much.
A friend of ours is married to a German. She speaks to their kids exclusively in English, and him in German so the kids are truly bilingual. Funnily enough, this is how I grew up, too - I always speak Welsh with my father and English with my mother.
I'm a Welsh speaker, and my wife, Gujerati. Living as a family in the middle of England though, we all speak only English at home. Our kids are all interested in picking up bits of Welsh/Gujerati but without hearing them spoken at home all the time, I don't think it's very easy to progress much.
A friend of ours is married to a German. She speaks to their kids exclusively in English, and him in German so the kids are truly bilingual. Funnily enough, this is how I grew up, too - I always speak Welsh with my father and English with my mother.
Post edited at 10:18
In reply to Ramblin dave:
Hah, brilliant. Thanks. That goes in the Good Bits file...
I don't agree with Flann about the expressive paucity of English, of course. I was watching the BBC adaptation of Our Mutual Friend on DVD last night, and the richness of the way Venus and Wegg (both uneducated Cockneys, 'sketched from life') express themselves was one of the most obvious things about it. Dickens is so funny, too.
Hah, brilliant. Thanks. That goes in the Good Bits file...
I don't agree with Flann about the expressive paucity of English, of course. I was watching the BBC adaptation of Our Mutual Friend on DVD last night, and the richness of the way Venus and Wegg (both uneducated Cockneys, 'sketched from life') express themselves was one of the most obvious things about it. Dickens is so funny, too.
Post edited at 10:21
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I think it can be a particularly valuable thing to learn for walking / climbing types - there's maybe a tendency to visit the highlands and look at the landscape as a purely physical thing, isolated from human society, whereas knowing enough of the language to understand place names can sometimes give you a (very small) window onto the landscape as it relates to local history and culture.
I think it can be a particularly valuable thing to learn for walking / climbing types - there's maybe a tendency to visit the highlands and look at the landscape as a purely physical thing, isolated from human society, whereas knowing enough of the language to understand place names can sometimes give you a (very small) window onto the landscape as it relates to local history and culture.
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
Regardless of origin, being a German speaker is a definite advantage when learning Gaelic as many of the sounds are similar, particularly the ch sound. That's why many Germans are learning Gaelic and quite a few have taken it to a very high level. In contrast those less familiar with the sounds sometimes struggle.
There is also the good grounding German people have in grammar which they can use when learning a new language. This often is better than UK people's understanding of grammar.
Regardless of origin, being a German speaker is a definite advantage when learning Gaelic as many of the sounds are similar, particularly the ch sound. That's why many Germans are learning Gaelic and quite a few have taken it to a very high level. In contrast those less familiar with the sounds sometimes struggle.
There is also the good grounding German people have in grammar which they can use when learning a new language. This often is better than UK people's understanding of grammar.
In reply to Saor Alba:
Not convinced that there's anything particular to German.
Quite a few other languages have the Scottish 'ch' sound, and speakers of lots of other languages (particularly inflected ones) have a better understanding of grammar than people in the UK do.
The fact that a lot of German-speakers are learning Gaelic could be just as easily explained by the fact that there are 80-odd million of them. That and the fact that Runrig are quite popular there.
Not convinced that there's anything particular to German.
Quite a few other languages have the Scottish 'ch' sound, and speakers of lots of other languages (particularly inflected ones) have a better understanding of grammar than people in the UK do.
The fact that a lot of German-speakers are learning Gaelic could be just as easily explained by the fact that there are 80-odd million of them. That and the fact that Runrig are quite popular there.
In reply to Ramblin dave:
Absolutely. I don't like wandering around and not knowing what I'm looking at: that's why I want to know bird species, plant names, constellations etc. Understanding the names of the mountains you climb seems like a kind of minimal courtesy to the place you're in, really.
Absolutely. I don't like wandering around and not knowing what I'm looking at: that's why I want to know bird species, plant names, constellations etc. Understanding the names of the mountains you climb seems like a kind of minimal courtesy to the place you're in, really.
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
There is. That's why there are quite a few German people who have learned Gaelic and often on Radio nan GÃ idheal. The BBC employs some, a German is behind the digitisation of Dwelly and he also works on high level translation. When I was at SMO there were many Germans and they were more prominent than Canadians which surprises some.
I think you are right about the motivations though.
There is. That's why there are quite a few German people who have learned Gaelic and often on Radio nan GÃ idheal. The BBC employs some, a German is behind the digitisation of Dwelly and he also works on high level translation. When I was at SMO there were many Germans and they were more prominent than Canadians which surprises some.
I think you are right about the motivations though.
In reply to Al Evans:
It's odd, but virtually every time you express an opinion on matters to do with Scotland you show yourself to be completely out of your depth. As to this particular point, have you ever been to Harris, for example? Go to somewhere like Scalpay, you'll hear people speaking Gaelic in the street and in the shops. Tell them that their language is dead, it'll no doubt make you feel better but no-one will pay you any attention.
Incidentally, on the subject of learning languages, how's the Spanish coming along?
> Why? It's like learning Latin or ancient Greek or Cornish, it's a dead language of interest only to scholars and archeologists.
It's odd, but virtually every time you express an opinion on matters to do with Scotland you show yourself to be completely out of your depth. As to this particular point, have you ever been to Harris, for example? Go to somewhere like Scalpay, you'll hear people speaking Gaelic in the street and in the shops. Tell them that their language is dead, it'll no doubt make you feel better but no-one will pay you any attention.
Incidentally, on the subject of learning languages, how's the Spanish coming along?
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Is it a courtesy to the place, or a courtesy to yourself?
> I don't like wandering around and not knowing what I'm looking at: that's why I want to know bird species, plant names, constellations etc. Understanding the names of the mountains you climb seems like a kind of minimal courtesy to the place you're in, really.
Is it a courtesy to the place, or a courtesy to yourself?
In reply to Andy Moles:
To the place. It's part of having a sense of place, which I think is ethically and spiritually crucial.
To the place. It's part of having a sense of place, which I think is ethically and spiritually crucial.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Fully agree with you there Tim. This is why it's important that a certain National outdoor centre leads on this and sets an example to the outdoor industry as a whole.
Fully agree with you there Tim. This is why it's important that a certain National outdoor centre leads on this and sets an example to the outdoor industry as a whole.
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
Damn...beat me to it!
> Incidentally, on the subject of learning languages, how's the Spanish coming along?
Damn...beat me to it!
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I'm afraid that I seriously think that if the whole world spoke the same language it would lead to less conflict and wars, I really believe that. I don't see the point in us all speaking different languages. The tower of Babel was just what it was, a disaster for mankind. Why shouldn't we all understand each other?
> Utterly wrong on all counts, Al.
> (a) Dead languages are not "of interest only to scholars and archeologists". They're of interest to anyone with an open and curious mind. They're not, I grant you, of interest to boorish, lowest-common-denominator philistines; but then nothing that they don't already know is, that's the point about BLCDPs.
> (b) Gaelic isn't a dead language. There are people on this site who speak it, some of them, I believe, as their mother tongue.
> (c) A language is a pair of spectacles through which we see the world. It encodes a culture and a history and a collective memory and a literature. Once that language is gone, that encoding is gone. For ever. This is a bad thing.
I'm afraid that I seriously think that if the whole world spoke the same language it would lead to less conflict and wars, I really believe that. I don't see the point in us all speaking different languages. The tower of Babel was just what it was, a disaster for mankind. Why shouldn't we all understand each other?
In reply to Al Evans:
I can imagine that being a very bland, less colourful and culturally poorer world Al.
Maybe we should all dress in beige as well.
I can imagine that being a very bland, less colourful and culturally poorer world Al.
Maybe we should all dress in beige as well.
In reply to Al Evans:
You do realise that the Tower Of Babel is only partly based on reality, right?
> I'm afraid that I seriously think that if the whole world spoke the same language it would lead to less conflict and wars, I really believe that. I don't see the point in us all speaking different languages. The tower of Babel was just what it was, a disaster for mankind. Why shouldn't we all understand each other?
You do realise that the Tower Of Babel is only partly based on reality, right?
In reply to Al Evans:
You're right of course. Damn...if only there was some way for people with different mother tongues to understand each other and learn another langueage...
<scratches head>
> Why shouldn't we all understand each other?
You're right of course. Damn...if only there was some way for people with different mother tongues to understand each other and learn another langueage...
<scratches head>
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
Hopeless, but there is no 'one' Spanish, it's like British but even more primitive, some of the regional languages are as diverse as Cornish and Welsh and Gaelic, but certainly they have no place in the modern world any more than Latin or ancient greek.
> Incidentally, on the subject of learning languages, how's the Spanish coming along?
Hopeless, but there is no 'one' Spanish, it's like British but even more primitive, some of the regional languages are as diverse as Cornish and Welsh and Gaelic, but certainly they have no place in the modern world any more than Latin or ancient greek.
In reply to ThunderCat:
But it is one of the more truth sounding myths of the old testament.
> You do realise that the Tower Of Babel is only partly based on reality, right?
>
But it is one of the more truth sounding myths of the old testament.
In reply to Saor Alba:
Pardon? I don't understand your point?
> How, exactly, do you know that if you don't speak any of these languages?
Pardon? I don't understand your point?
In reply to Al Evans:
There's a character in Viz called "Major Misunderstanding", and you're starting to sound eerily like him
> Hopeless, but there is no 'one' Spanish, it's like British but even more primitive, some of the regional languages are as diverse as Cornish and Welsh and Gaelic, but certainly they have no place in the modern world any more than Latin or ancient greek.
There's a character in Viz called "Major Misunderstanding", and you're starting to sound eerily like him
Post edited at 11:46
In reply to Al Evans:
If you don't speak (or even have an understanding of) Gaelic, Cornish and the regional languages you refer to, how can you offer an opinion of any value on their diversity?
If you don't speak (or even have an understanding of) Gaelic, Cornish and the regional languages you refer to, how can you offer an opinion of any value on their diversity?
In reply to Al Evans:
"No place in the modern world"...
You do realise how pompous, ridiculous, and stupid you're sounding, don't you?
Don't you? Oh.
"No place in the modern world"...
You do realise how pompous, ridiculous, and stupid you're sounding, don't you?
Don't you? Oh.
In reply to Al Evans:
Very true. I remember reading it and thinking "wow, I know it's a myth but I could actually imagine that happening for real"
<end sarcasm>
> But it is one of the more truth sounding myths of the old testament.
Very true. I remember reading it and thinking "wow, I know it's a myth but I could actually imagine that happening for real"
<end sarcasm>
In reply to ThunderCat:
If we didn't have wars etc then I think a world of beige and everybody talking as one would be a good thing, except that that wouldn't happen, if people all spoke in the same language and understood each other, there would still be individuals to pursue the arts and science etc.
> I can imagine that being a very bland, less colourful and culturally poorer world Al.
> Maybe we should all dress in beige as well.
If we didn't have wars etc then I think a world of beige and everybody talking as one would be a good thing, except that that wouldn't happen, if people all spoke in the same language and understood each other, there would still be individuals to pursue the arts and science etc.
In reply to Al Evans:
Cue visions of Al with large bullhorn, herding Spaniards, Hebrideans, assorted other Celts, and classics professors towards the Exit doors of "the modern world": YOU'RE PRIMITIVES... THIS IS THE MODERN WORLD... YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE... PLEASE LEAVE NOW.
> Hopeless, but there is no 'one' Spanish, it's like British but even more primitive, some of the regional languages are as diverse as Cornish and Welsh and Gaelic, but certainly they have no place in the modern world any more than Latin or ancient greek.
Cue visions of Al with large bullhorn, herding Spaniards, Hebrideans, assorted other Celts, and classics professors towards the Exit doors of "the modern world": YOU'RE PRIMITIVES... THIS IS THE MODERN WORLD... YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE... PLEASE LEAVE NOW.
Post edited at 11:53
In reply to Al Evans:
Sussed it. You are not real. I am talking to a Turing machine aren't I?. Can I claim my £5
> If we didn't have wars etc then I think a world of beige and everybody talking as one would be a good thing, except that that wouldn't happen, if people all spoke in the same language and understood each other, there would still be individuals to pursue the arts and science etc.
Sussed it. You are not real. I am talking to a Turing machine aren't I?. Can I claim my £5
In reply to Tim Chappell:
> Cue visions of Al with large bullhorn, herding Spaniards, Hebrideans, assorted other Celts, and classics professors towards the Exit doors of "the modern world": YOU'RE PRIMITIVES... THIS IS THE MODERN WORLD... YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE... PLEASE LEAVE NOW.
In reply to Al Evans:
Al-- on this evidence, you don't even speak English.
> If we didn't have wars etc then I think a world of beige and everybody talking as one would be a good thing, except that that wouldn't happen, if people all spoke in the same language and understood each other, there would still be individuals to pursue the arts and science etc.
Al-- on this evidence, you don't even speak English.
In reply to ThunderCat:
If the world spoke only one language, I'd agree.
But if the world spoke a common second (or third) language? Not a new idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._L._Zamenhof
> I can imagine that being a very bland, less colourful and culturally poorer world Al.
If the world spoke only one language, I'd agree.
But if the world spoke a common second (or third) language? Not a new idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._L._Zamenhof
In reply to Al Evans:
Yes but you speak the same language as me and everyone else on here and you haven't the faintest idea what we are talking about.
Yes but you speak the same language as me and everyone else on here and you haven't the faintest idea what we are talking about.
In reply to deepsoup:
My defeatist attitude tells me that it's within our nature to kick the sh*t out of each other and having a common language wouldn't really change that too much.
I wonder out of all the conflict in the world, how many of the opposing sides actually 'understand' each other? Probably hard to quantify with any degree of accuracy, but I bet it's a high percentage.
Nice thought though.
> If the world spoke only one language, I'd agree.
> But if the world spoke a common second (or third) language? Not a new idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._L._Zamenhof
My defeatist attitude tells me that it's within our nature to kick the sh*t out of each other and having a common language wouldn't really change that too much.
I wonder out of all the conflict in the world, how many of the opposing sides actually 'understand' each other? Probably hard to quantify with any degree of accuracy, but I bet it's a high percentage.
Nice thought though.
In reply to ThunderCat:
You know that bit in "The Fly" where Brundle and a Fly get their DNA brought together? The same happened to Al Evans but the two components were Enoch Powell and Bungle from Rainbow.
You know that bit in "The Fly" where Brundle and a Fly get their DNA brought together? The same happened to Al Evans but the two components were Enoch Powell and Bungle from Rainbow.
In reply to Ramblin dave:
Back to this post though - what a nice bit of writing. I liked it.
> "A lady lecturing recently on the Irish language drew ............ matter of pride with them never to use the same word twice in a life-time. Their life (not to say their language) becomes very complex at the century mark; but there you are. "
> - Flann O'Brien
Back to this post though - what a nice bit of writing. I liked it.
In reply to Saor Alba:
I think he's working off some ancient grudge. When he was 14, did his Lat teacher give him the swish for misconjugating the passive of "amo"?
I think he's working off some ancient grudge. When he was 14, did his Lat teacher give him the swish for misconjugating the passive of "amo"?
In reply to Saor Alba:
Heheheh. That conjured up the most bizarre mental image...
> You know that bit in "The Fly" where Brundle and a Fly get their DNA brought together? The same happened to Al Evans but the two components were Enoch Powell and Bungle from Rainbow.
Heheheh. That conjured up the most bizarre mental image...
In reply to ThunderCat:
It shouldn't automatically be assumed that understanding each other's languages will always help us avoid conflict.
There's this, for example:
http://www.mostly-harmless.de/crllstlk.htm
It shouldn't automatically be assumed that understanding each other's languages will always help us avoid conflict.
There's this, for example:
http://www.mostly-harmless.de/crllstlk.htm
In reply to deepsoup:
Oh yeah? Wanna fight about it?
> Slightly depressingly, I suspect you're absolutely right.
Oh yeah? Wanna fight about it?
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I don't disagree, but I also don't think you can separate your desire to know the names of things from being a knowledge-hungry being. I guess it's self-evident that if you like to know things there's an element of self-gratification in knowing things. Bringing the mind's unknown into the known - you could call it an act of annexation.
Strange way to look at it maybe. But thinking specifically of a landscape encoded in language that's at a remove (you have to smile at the desperation sometimes to pin down elusive Scottish hill names to a concrete source), I think it's more important to recognise the relationship to place for what it is, and to build your own relationship with it, not to have your wings clipped by someone else's cultural agenda. Unless of course you want to.
I'm all for respecting other people's relationships to place too, and I too like knowing what hills are called.
I don't disagree, but I also don't think you can separate your desire to know the names of things from being a knowledge-hungry being. I guess it's self-evident that if you like to know things there's an element of self-gratification in knowing things. Bringing the mind's unknown into the known - you could call it an act of annexation.
Strange way to look at it maybe. But thinking specifically of a landscape encoded in language that's at a remove (you have to smile at the desperation sometimes to pin down elusive Scottish hill names to a concrete source), I think it's more important to recognise the relationship to place for what it is, and to build your own relationship with it, not to have your wings clipped by someone else's cultural agenda. Unless of course you want to.
I'm all for respecting other people's relationships to place too, and I too like knowing what hills are called.
In reply to ThunderCat:
I submit that Al's frenetic enthusiasm for purging our language of Latin and Greek influences is idiosyncratic to the point of eccentricity, possibly idiotic, and certainly impracticable.
He does appear to reiterate his propagandistic agenda ad nauseam.
QED...
I submit that Al's frenetic enthusiasm for purging our language of Latin and Greek influences is idiosyncratic to the point of eccentricity, possibly idiotic, and certainly impracticable.
He does appear to reiterate his propagandistic agenda ad nauseam.
QED...
Post edited at 12:14
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I guess this sums me up
"Take a pinch of white man
Wrap him up in black skin
Add a touch of blue blood
And a little bitty bit of Red Indian boy
Curly Latin kinkies
Mixed with yellow Chinkees
If you lump it all together
Well, you got a recipe for a get along scene
Oh, what a beautiful dream
If it could only come true, you know, you know
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee colored people by the score
Rabbis and the Friars
Vishnus and the Gurus
You got the Beatles or the Sun God, it's true
Well, it really doesn't matter what religion you choose
No, no no
Making Lady Favor
Mrs. Graceful
You know that livin' could be tasteful
We should all get together in a lovin' machine
I better call up the Queen
It's only fair that she knows, you know, you know
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee colored people by the score
What we need, what we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough, big enough, big enough
To take the world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee colored people by the score
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough, big enough, big enough
To take the world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee colored people by the score
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough, big enough, big enough
To take the world and all it's got
Keep it stirring for a hundred years or more"
I guess this sums me up
"Take a pinch of white man
Wrap him up in black skin
Add a touch of blue blood
And a little bitty bit of Red Indian boy
Curly Latin kinkies
Mixed with yellow Chinkees
If you lump it all together
Well, you got a recipe for a get along scene
Oh, what a beautiful dream
If it could only come true, you know, you know
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee colored people by the score
Rabbis and the Friars
Vishnus and the Gurus
You got the Beatles or the Sun God, it's true
Well, it really doesn't matter what religion you choose
No, no no
Making Lady Favor
Mrs. Graceful
You know that livin' could be tasteful
We should all get together in a lovin' machine
I better call up the Queen
It's only fair that she knows, you know, you know
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee colored people by the score
What we need, what we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough, big enough, big enough
To take the world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee colored people by the score
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough, big enough, big enough
To take the world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee colored people by the score
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough, big enough, big enough
To take the world and all it's got
Keep it stirring for a hundred years or more"
In reply to Al Evans:
Never before has someone used the lyrics "yellow chinkees" in a post about racial harmony.
I still think you're a Turing machine
Never before has someone used the lyrics "yellow chinkees" in a post about racial harmony.
I still think you're a Turing machine
In reply to Al Evans:
Don't you think that that song is actually a little bit sad and depressing in itself?
"As long as we are different, we'll never get along. If we don't turn ourselves into one single uniform lump, coloured the same, speaking the same then we're screwed"
Still, it gave you the opportunity to get in the phrase "yellow chinkees" without getting the thread pulled.
Don't you think that that song is actually a little bit sad and depressing in itself?
"As long as we are different, we'll never get along. If we don't turn ourselves into one single uniform lump, coloured the same, speaking the same then we're screwed"
Still, it gave you the opportunity to get in the phrase "yellow chinkees" without getting the thread pulled.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Off topic Tim, but i keep reading this thread Title as teach yourself garlic.
So for anyone else with thread dyslexia
http://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/how-grow-garlic-save-money
Off topic Tim, but i keep reading this thread Title as teach yourself garlic.
So for anyone else with thread dyslexia
http://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/how-grow-garlic-save-money
Post edited at 12:46
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Well most of the witterings on here are just sad and devisive in terms of the unity of people, nothing can be more stupid than Scottish independance and going back to the gaelic language.
> Thanks for that. More relevant than Al's witterings, anyway.
Well most of the witterings on here are just sad and devisive in terms of the unity of people, nothing can be more stupid than Scottish independance and going back to the gaelic language.
In reply to Al Evans:
Erm, separate issues possibly? I'm a Better-Together suppporter, but I also love and respect Gaelic culture as something precious and worth preserving.
I gather that my daughter, to come back to her, also takes these views.
Oh, and I don't think anyone's talking about "going back to the Gaelic language". You do realise, don't you, that pretty much everywhere south of the Highland Line apart (I think) from Galloway was *never* Gaelic-speaking?
Erm, separate issues possibly? I'm a Better-Together suppporter, but I also love and respect Gaelic culture as something precious and worth preserving.
I gather that my daughter, to come back to her, also takes these views.
Oh, and I don't think anyone's talking about "going back to the Gaelic language". You do realise, don't you, that pretty much everywhere south of the Highland Line apart (I think) from Galloway was *never* Gaelic-speaking?
Post edited at 13:16
In reply to Al Evans:
The only one being divisive in this thread is you Al. "Going back" to Gaelic as you say does not mean replacing English, as I suspect you well know. It is all about broadening the mind, adding to ones's knowledge and accessing a different cluture.
The only one being divisive in this thread is you Al. "Going back" to Gaelic as you say does not mean replacing English, as I suspect you well know. It is all about broadening the mind, adding to ones's knowledge and accessing a different cluture.
In reply to Al Evans:
I agree with you that the world would be a better place if everyone could speak with everyone else. In fact the world is moving that way by most countries adopting English as a second language. The changes I've noticed in my lifetime regarding the usage of English in non english speaking countries is quite remarkable.
That doesn't mean though that the whole world has to become mono lingual just that most of it needs to be bi lingual.
I wonder though, how much other cultures would be damaged if they changed their languages, really? While it's good to be able to see the world "with two eyes rather than one" I feel it's value is rather over stated.
I agree with you that the world would be a better place if everyone could speak with everyone else. In fact the world is moving that way by most countries adopting English as a second language. The changes I've noticed in my lifetime regarding the usage of English in non english speaking countries is quite remarkable.
That doesn't mean though that the whole world has to become mono lingual just that most of it needs to be bi lingual.
I wonder though, how much other cultures would be damaged if they changed their languages, really? While it's good to be able to see the world "with two eyes rather than one" I feel it's value is rather over stated.
In reply to Removed User:
I suspect you are right. Some countries and cultures have changed languages over time and seem to have survived. An extension of this is that I don't think learning a language as an "outsider" will give you much insight into a culture. It is the growing up in, working in and living in a culture that will do this. For example, I don't think the British by and large have much appreciation of US culture despite speaking (almost) the same language. Still, if middle class 13 year olds spontanously wish to learn gaelic, there is no harm in that.
I suspect you are right. Some countries and cultures have changed languages over time and seem to have survived. An extension of this is that I don't think learning a language as an "outsider" will give you much insight into a culture. It is the growing up in, working in and living in a culture that will do this. For example, I don't think the British by and large have much appreciation of US culture despite speaking (almost) the same language. Still, if middle class 13 year olds spontanously wish to learn gaelic, there is no harm in that.
In reply to MG:
Are either of you guys (Eric also) bilingual? I mean fluent, not a working knowledge?
Are either of you guys (Eric also) bilingual? I mean fluent, not a working knowledge?
In reply to Removed User:
I think it depends a lot on the nature of the power relationship that engenders the change.
You could say that because language is an integral part of a culture, changing it is a kind of 'damage' in itself. Though that would infer that change is necessarily a bad thing, and would also infer that the culture beforehand was 'undamaged', which is a weird concept. It suggests some sort of purity or stasis - whereas in reality culture is a process.
> I wonder though, how much other cultures would be damaged if they changed their languages, really?
I think it depends a lot on the nature of the power relationship that engenders the change.
You could say that because language is an integral part of a culture, changing it is a kind of 'damage' in itself. Though that would infer that change is necessarily a bad thing, and would also infer that the culture beforehand was 'undamaged', which is a weird concept. It suggests some sort of purity or stasis - whereas in reality culture is a process.
In reply to MG:
There's the problem then as I think it is impossible to get your head around bilingualism until full fluency is reached. Your statements read very monoglotish....
There's the problem then as I think it is impossible to get your head around bilingualism until full fluency is reached. Your statements read very monoglotish....
In reply to Saor Alba:
Well we are kind of stuck as neither of us have experience of both aspects. In my experience it is the living elsewhere that helps more than the language. Obviously both are necessary for full understanding but I struggle to see how learning a language and not being otherwise immersed in a culture will give more than a fairly superficial feel for it.
Well we are kind of stuck as neither of us have experience of both aspects. In my experience it is the living elsewhere that helps more than the language. Obviously both are necessary for full understanding but I struggle to see how learning a language and not being otherwise immersed in a culture will give more than a fairly superficial feel for it.
In reply to Saor Alba:
In academia there's a growing tendency for everything to happen in English. I think this is a great pity. I do my best to fight it. So far as I can, I operate in other languages as well as English (e.g. today I'm reviewing a German book on Plato). But it's hard to find the time to get really good at other languages, especially when there's so much cultural pressure in the opposite direction. I read academic work and I participate in academic discussions in French, Italian, German, and Spanish, in that order of fluency; but my knowledge of their languages is no match for the continentals' English. One of these days I'd like to give a paper in French; but I'm not convinced a French conference would let me!
In academia there's a growing tendency for everything to happen in English. I think this is a great pity. I do my best to fight it. So far as I can, I operate in other languages as well as English (e.g. today I'm reviewing a German book on Plato). But it's hard to find the time to get really good at other languages, especially when there's so much cultural pressure in the opposite direction. I read academic work and I participate in academic discussions in French, Italian, German, and Spanish, in that order of fluency; but my knowledge of their languages is no match for the continentals' English. One of these days I'd like to give a paper in French; but I'm not convinced a French conference would let me!
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Having recently discovered my Welsh origin, I'd really like to learn to speak Welsh so I too can annoy the visiting English when I'm over there. My problem is that I was always useless at learning languages and, frankly, I don't seem to have the brain space for it. Any tips anyone? Maybe a bluffers guide to Welsh?
Having recently discovered my Welsh origin, I'd really like to learn to speak Welsh so I too can annoy the visiting English when I'm over there. My problem is that I was always useless at learning languages and, frankly, I don't seem to have the brain space for it. Any tips anyone? Maybe a bluffers guide to Welsh?
In reply to MG:
I lived in Pakistan for 8 months in 1984, teaching EFL. I got quite good at Urdu, another case where the numbers are nicely Indo-European: ek do tin char panch che sath ath nao dus.
> Have you ever lived and worked outside the UK for more than a few months?
I lived in Pakistan for 8 months in 1984, teaching EFL. I got quite good at Urdu, another case where the numbers are nicely Indo-European: ek do tin char panch che sath ath nao dus.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
You could start by tuning in to Pobol y Cwm
and in doing so, double the viewing figures...
You could start by tuning in to Pobol y Cwm
and in doing so, double the viewing figures...
In reply to Tim Chappell:
So would you say living there with no Urdu, or knowing your level of Urdu without living there would be more beneficial for understanding the culture?
So would you say living there with no Urdu, or knowing your level of Urdu without living there would be more beneficial for understanding the culture?
In reply to MG:
That's a bit like asking whether a bike works better if you take off the front wheel, or if you take off the back one. You need both.
That's a bit like asking whether a bike works better if you take off the front wheel, or if you take off the back one. You need both.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I think you need to able to communicate but not necessarily in the local language. I spent 8 months in Denmark and gained some understanding of the culture but didn't learn significant Danish (they take pride in it being hard, otherwise the Swedes might learn it properly). That they all speak perfect English helped of course, without that I wouldn't have learned much about the culture at all.
I think you need to able to communicate but not necessarily in the local language. I spent 8 months in Denmark and gained some understanding of the culture but didn't learn significant Danish (they take pride in it being hard, otherwise the Swedes might learn it properly). That they all speak perfect English helped of course, without that I wouldn't have learned much about the culture at all.
In reply to Skyfall:
I found this useful.. https://site.saysomethingin.com/communities/welsh-for-english-speakers/page...
My spoken Welsh is somewhere between shocking and abysmal but my workplace is bilingual Welsh-first, so I'm not bad at recognising Welsh words as all our emails arrive in 2 columns, one language either side. Hearing them spoken and recognising them for what they are is an entirely different matter...
I found this useful.. https://site.saysomethingin.com/communities/welsh-for-english-speakers/page...
My spoken Welsh is somewhere between shocking and abysmal but my workplace is bilingual Welsh-first, so I'm not bad at recognising Welsh words as all our emails arrive in 2 columns, one language either side. Hearing them spoken and recognising them for what they are is an entirely different matter...
Post edited at 14:18
In reply to Al Evans:
I think it's this post, rather than the other one, which sums you up.
> Well most of the witterings on here are just sad and devisive in terms of the unity of people, nothing can be more stupid than Scottish independance and going back to the gaelic language.
I think it's this post, rather than the other one, which sums you up.
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
Wikipedia says I'm wrong about the historical extent of Gaelic-speaking in Scotland, incidentally. Once upon a time, it was spoken almost everywhere N and W of a line from Grangemouth to Annan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic#History
Wikipedia says I'm wrong about the historical extent of Gaelic-speaking in Scotland, incidentally. Once upon a time, it was spoken almost everywhere N and W of a line from Grangemouth to Annan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic#History
In reply to FactorXXX:
Sadly I just checked SC4's viewing figures and last week it was watched by 117,000 viewers. That's quite, er, unimpressive for the longest running soap on the Beeb.
> You could start by tuning in to Pobol y Cwm
>
> and in doing so, double the viewing figures...
>
> and in doing so, double the viewing figures...
Sadly I just checked SC4's viewing figures and last week it was watched by 117,000 viewers. That's quite, er, unimpressive for the longest running soap on the Beeb.
In reply to Skyfall:
Given that there are about 500,000 Welsh speakers, this means that one-quarter of the entire population who could watch PyC, DO watch PyC. East Enders and Corrie are, surely, doing nowhere near as well as this!
Given that there are about 500,000 Welsh speakers, this means that one-quarter of the entire population who could watch PyC, DO watch PyC. East Enders and Corrie are, surely, doing nowhere near as well as this!
Post edited at 14:37
In reply to hollie_w:
That's really helpful, thanks. I've had a quick look and feel mildly enthused to give it a go. I am sure some of my family would appreciate the effort. Did you do any of the courses (I see it becomes paying after course 1)?
That's really helpful, thanks. I've had a quick look and feel mildly enthused to give it a go. I am sure some of my family would appreciate the effort. Did you do any of the courses (I see it becomes paying after course 1)?
In reply to Tim Chappell:
(Just caught up on this very interesting thread) I may have a work trip to Moscow in June. I have been to Russia once before and only had time to learn enough of the alphabet to read the street names so as to know where I was, and that felt very inadequate and a bit unsafe. This time I have more warning and will do better. I have just re-opened the book and had that sinking feeling that always confronts me when I see the Russian alphabet, despite being perfectly happy with the Greek alphabet.
Anyway (a) I heartily agree with everything said on here about the virtues, and courtesy, of learning languages - not to mention the fun. And (b) recommendations from any passing linguists for a nice Russian-learning website, or book, or recording, would be welcome.
(Just caught up on this very interesting thread) I may have a work trip to Moscow in June. I have been to Russia once before and only had time to learn enough of the alphabet to read the street names so as to know where I was, and that felt very inadequate and a bit unsafe. This time I have more warning and will do better. I have just re-opened the book and had that sinking feeling that always confronts me when I see the Russian alphabet, despite being perfectly happy with the Greek alphabet.
Anyway (a) I heartily agree with everything said on here about the virtues, and courtesy, of learning languages - not to mention the fun. And (b) recommendations from any passing linguists for a nice Russian-learning website, or book, or recording, would be welcome.
In reply to BusyLizzie:
Ooh, you shameless hijacker.
I did Russian halfway to O level at school, but stopped to concentrate on my A levels. We used the Penguin Russian Course, which is well-organised and very grammatical.
Ooh, you shameless hijacker.
I did Russian halfway to O level at school, but stopped to concentrate on my A levels. We used the Penguin Russian Course, which is well-organised and very grammatical.
In reply to MG:
For culture you need both.
How do you explain Al Evans? He is not fluent in Spanish but would you consider him to be well versed in Spanish culture?
For culture you need both.
How do you explain Al Evans? He is not fluent in Spanish but would you consider him to be well versed in Spanish culture?
In reply to Tim Chappell:
And yes, sorry, that was a partial hijack, but I had language-learning on my mind!
And yes, sorry, that was a partial hijack, but I had language-learning on my mind!
In reply to BusyLizzie:
A pleasing idea. They've already taken over the arctic (all the polar bears speak Russian)... now they're going for the antarctic...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-New-Penguin-Russian-Course/dp/0140120416
A pleasing idea. They've already taken over the arctic (all the polar bears speak Russian)... now they're going for the antarctic...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-New-Penguin-Russian-Course/dp/0140120416
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I gather the Anglophile Penguins wanted to be able to understand Russian so they could report back to GCHQ.
> A pleasing idea. They've already taken over the arctic (all the polar bears speak Russian)... now they're going for the antarctic...
I gather the Anglophile Penguins wanted to be able to understand Russian so they could report back to GCHQ.
In reply to Skyfall:
The ones in les Iles Malouines are all native Spanish-speakers who have been ruthlessly coerced by the Royal Navy into learning English...
where is Bruce these days??
The ones in les Iles Malouines are all native Spanish-speakers who have been ruthlessly coerced by the Royal Navy into learning English...
where is Bruce these days??
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Excellent - I shall get that and pretend to be a New Penguin.
If you can persuade the penguins to move to Scotland you can teach them Gaelic and hey presto your thread is un-hijacked.
Excellent - I shall get that and pretend to be a New Penguin.
If you can persuade the penguins to move to Scotland you can teach them Gaelic and hey presto your thread is un-hijacked.
In reply to BusyLizzie:
The redoubtable Scottish Government is onto this project already:
http://www.edinburghzoo.org.uk/EZPenguinCam.html
The redoubtable Scottish Government is onto this project already:
http://www.edinburghzoo.org.uk/EZPenguinCam.html
In reply to Saor Alba:
>
I never said living somewhere was a sufficient condition! Someone living in a non-English speaking country for years and not learning the language at all suggests a complete lack of interest in the culture to me.
>
> How do you explain Al Evans?
I never said living somewhere was a sufficient condition! Someone living in a non-English speaking country for years and not learning the language at all suggests a complete lack of interest in the culture to me.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Undercover in a Penguin onesie?
http://www.kigu.co.uk/penguin-onesie/
> where is Bruce these days??
Undercover in a Penguin onesie?
http://www.kigu.co.uk/penguin-onesie/
In reply to Skyfall:
Brilliant. Lizzie should get one for her Moscow trip. That should go down well at Border Control at Sheremetyevo
Brilliant. Lizzie should get one for her Moscow trip. That should go down well at Border Control at Sheremetyevo
In reply to Saor Alba:
My point is that learning a language isn't a passport to cultural understanding. I know reasonable French but haven't spent much time there and don't feel I understand the French much at all. I speak little Italian but have spent more time there and have a (still very limited) understanding of the culture in one area.
My point is that learning a language isn't a passport to cultural understanding. I know reasonable French but haven't spent much time there and don't feel I understand the French much at all. I speak little Italian but have spent more time there and have a (still very limited) understanding of the culture in one area.
In reply to BusyLizzie:
Incidentally, I always wanted to learn Russian as it seemed a much more macho sexy language than French or Italian, for example. Unfortunately, I only got as far as being able to grunt "Nyet", which had limited utility.
Incidentally, I always wanted to learn Russian as it seemed a much more macho sexy language than French or Italian, for example. Unfortunately, I only got as far as being able to grunt "Nyet", which had limited utility.
In reply to Skyfall:
Have you ever noticed how the Russians in Bond films are perfectly capable of explaining the workings of an intercontinental super-missile in fluent and articulate English, yet when it comes to simple English vocabulary, words like "Yes" and "friend" and "No" and "good", they're forced to lapse into Russian and say "Da, khorosho" and "Nyet, tovarish"?
Have you ever noticed how the Russians in Bond films are perfectly capable of explaining the workings of an intercontinental super-missile in fluent and articulate English, yet when it comes to simple English vocabulary, words like "Yes" and "friend" and "No" and "good", they're forced to lapse into Russian and say "Da, khorosho" and "Nyet, tovarish"?
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Exactly. Which explains why, even with my limited Russian vocabulary, I did consider that as a career option. Unfortunately, however, I was unable to master explaining the workings of an intercontinental ballistic missile in English.
The latest from GCHQ is that the Penguins are close to gaining "missile" capability. Let's hope they're working for the right team.
> Have you ever noticed how the Russians in Bond films are .... forced to lapse into Russian and say "Da, khorosho" and "Nyet, tovarish"?
Exactly. Which explains why, even with my limited Russian vocabulary, I did consider that as a career option. Unfortunately, however, I was unable to master explaining the workings of an intercontinental ballistic missile in English.
The latest from GCHQ is that the Penguins are close to gaining "missile" capability. Let's hope they're working for the right team.
Post edited at 15:19
In reply to MG:
Nothing could spoil the typical Bond film for me, except possibly less Ursula Andress. It's just a feast of implausibility, a blow-out of preposterousness. And of leggy lovelies, obviously.
Nothing could spoil the typical Bond film for me, except possibly less Ursula Andress. It's just a feast of implausibility, a blow-out of preposterousness. And of leggy lovelies, obviously.
Post edited at 15:32
In reply to Skyfall:
Oh my God! Has M been told? She should be. What about Q? Does the young whipper-snapper have anything new up his fresh-faced, grungey Mod-parka sleeves?
Another key part of the Bond-film recipe, of course, is ludicrously overblown hokum on the music front. This one's for you, sir:
youtube.com/watch?v=7HKoqNJtMTQ&
> The latest from GCHQ is that the Penguins are close to gaining "missile" capability. Let's hope they're working for the right team.
Oh my God! Has M been told? She should be. What about Q? Does the young whipper-snapper have anything new up his fresh-faced, grungey Mod-parka sleeves?
Another key part of the Bond-film recipe, of course, is ludicrously overblown hokum on the music front. This one's for you, sir:
youtube.com/watch?v=7HKoqNJtMTQ&
In reply to Skyfall:
Yep, I found it useful - did course 1 and was tempted by course 2, but decided it was better to try and get better at actually using Welsh in conversation at a basic level - no point doing more courses if I'm not trying it out! But then I live in Wales, with fair few Welsh-speaking friends/colleagues, and the town is fairly Welsh speaking, so you hear it spoken a lot in shops/at running club etc and written on facebook as well, so I can get practice in provided I make myself speak it. I don't know how much use it would be if I wasn't already quite surrounded by the language as well - as with all languages I guess its easier to learn if you have people to practice with rather than just parroting back at the computer.
S4C have subtitles in English as well as Welsh - if you select subtitles it will scroll through subtitles off, subtitles Welsh, subtitles English. Also have them on their 'Clic' iplayer thing. Should help with your PyC enjoyment
Yep, I found it useful - did course 1 and was tempted by course 2, but decided it was better to try and get better at actually using Welsh in conversation at a basic level - no point doing more courses if I'm not trying it out! But then I live in Wales, with fair few Welsh-speaking friends/colleagues, and the town is fairly Welsh speaking, so you hear it spoken a lot in shops/at running club etc and written on facebook as well, so I can get practice in provided I make myself speak it. I don't know how much use it would be if I wasn't already quite surrounded by the language as well - as with all languages I guess its easier to learn if you have people to practice with rather than just parroting back at the computer.
S4C have subtitles in English as well as Welsh - if you select subtitles it will scroll through subtitles off, subtitles Welsh, subtitles English. Also have them on their 'Clic' iplayer thing. Should help with your PyC enjoyment
In reply to MG:
I don't recall saying it was. But without it I would suggest that the true breadth of a culture cannot be obtained. That's all.
No one can explain Al Evans.
I am just mystified as to why he modeled himself on Bungle and not Zippy as he was much cooler.
I don't recall saying it was. But without it I would suggest that the true breadth of a culture cannot be obtained. That's all.
No one can explain Al Evans.
I am just mystified as to why he modeled himself on Bungle and not Zippy as he was much cooler.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Similarly, any Mexican / Hispanic baddie in the movies can master every single English word except the ones for "Si" and "Senor"
> Have you ever noticed how the Russians in Bond films are perfectly capable of explaining the workings of an intercontinental super-missile in fluent and articulate English, yet when it comes to simple English vocabulary, words like "Yes" and "friend" and "No" and "good", they're forced to lapse into Russian and say "Da, khorosho" and "Nyet, tovarish"?
Similarly, any Mexican / Hispanic baddie in the movies can master every single English word except the ones for "Si" and "Senor"
In reply to ThunderCat:
Oh, and "gringo". Though possibly, of course, the English for "gringo" is "gringo".
Oh, and "gringo". Though possibly, of course, the English for "gringo" is "gringo".
In reply to Al Evans:
Wow. A display of galactic misunderstanding there Al.
<doffs cap>
> Well most of the witterings on here are just sad and devisive in terms of the unity of people, nothing can be more stupid than Scottish independance and going back to the gaelic language.
Wow. A display of galactic misunderstanding there Al.
<doffs cap>
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Got to say that Russian IS a very sexy sounding language. I was even mildly turned on by John Cleese in A fish called Wanda.
Got to say that Russian IS a very sexy sounding language. I was even mildly turned on by John Cleese in A fish called Wanda.
In reply to MG:
Its a good start. I know several English people who have learnt Welsh and immerse themselves in the culture. Takes a lot of hard work, granted
> My point is that learning a language isn't a passport to cultural understanding. I know reasonable French but haven't spent much time there and don't feel I understand the French much at all. I speak little Italian but have spent more time there and have a (still very limited) understanding of the culture in one area.
Its a good start. I know several English people who have learnt Welsh and immerse themselves in the culture. Takes a lot of hard work, granted
In reply to ThunderCat:
Shurely Kevin Klein? That scene with Jamie Lee Curtis had me crying with laughter.
Shurely Kevin Klein? That scene with Jamie Lee Curtis had me crying with laughter.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I struggled with teach yourself course alone - going to a couple of week long courses at SMO on Skye made the whole thing much easier!! I'd heartily recommend it. If she has the time, the their distance learning courses are excellent also, but hard work and a fair time commitment.
Cheers!
Stu
I struggled with teach yourself course alone - going to a couple of week long courses at SMO on Skye made the whole thing much easier!! I'd heartily recommend it. If she has the time, the their distance learning courses are excellent also, but hard work and a fair time commitment.
Cheers!
Stu
In reply to andymac:
They haven't for a long time, of course, but it was once spoken over virtually all of what is now north-east Scotland. Loads of place-name evidence for that.
The oldest surviving text in the Gaelic language was written in Aberdeenshire, at Deer Abbey.
> Didn't think they spoke Gaelic in Dundee.
They haven't for a long time, of course, but it was once spoken over virtually all of what is now north-east Scotland. Loads of place-name evidence for that.
The oldest surviving text in the Gaelic language was written in Aberdeenshire, at Deer Abbey.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Skyfall being the name of an estate in Scotland, where Gaelic is spoken, often, undoubtedly...
> Another key part of the Bond-film recipe, of course, is ludicrously overblown hokum on the music front. This one's for you, sir:
>
> youtube.com/watch?v=7HKoqNJtMTQ&
>
> youtube.com/watch?v=7HKoqNJtMTQ&
Skyfall being the name of an estate in Scotland, where Gaelic is spoken, often, undoubtedly...
In reply to BusyLizzie:
Lizzie, I study Russian and would recommend for beginners a) the Michel Thomas courses (which are excellent, really easy and give you a great grounding) b) the Daphne West books (Complete Russian and Essential Russian Grammar) and c) Russian-for-Free website.
I have a few friends in Moscow, some of whom I have met and some I haven't. If you would like to meet up with someone there to show you around a be a local contact, let me know via pm and I'll try to sort it out. I'm sure at least one of them would welcome the chance to practise their English and show you their city.
Lizzie, I study Russian and would recommend for beginners a) the Michel Thomas courses (which are excellent, really easy and give you a great grounding) b) the Daphne West books (Complete Russian and Essential Russian Grammar) and c) Russian-for-Free website.
I have a few friends in Moscow, some of whom I have met and some I haven't. If you would like to meet up with someone there to show you around a be a local contact, let me know via pm and I'll try to sort it out. I'm sure at least one of them would welcome the chance to practise their English and show you their city.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
nah, the john cleese bit. kevin klein was only pretending to speak russian, but the cleese character does speak it.
> Shurely Kevin Klein? That scene with Jamie Lee Curtis had me crying with laughter.
nah, the john cleese bit. kevin klein was only pretending to speak russian, but the cleese character does speak it.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
That was Italian wasn't it?
> Shurely Kevin Klein? That scene with Jamie Lee Curtis had me crying with laughter.
That was Italian wasn't it?
In reply to dek:
I can't actually remember what klein was pretending to speak, but I recall Cleese doing Italian and Russian, and a couple of others maybe..
Anyhoo, Russian is sexy...
I can't actually remember what klein was pretending to speak, but I recall Cleese doing Italian and Russian, and a couple of others maybe..
Anyhoo, Russian is sexy...
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I think You'll find the penguins speak Norwegian!
http://www.edinburghzoo.org.uk/animals/SirNilsOlav.html
(and the Zoo has no connection to the Scottish Govt).
I think You'll find the penguins speak Norwegian!
http://www.edinburghzoo.org.uk/animals/SirNilsOlav.html
(and the Zoo has no connection to the Scottish Govt).
In reply to Skyfall:
I was thinking of this......
http://www.blogdolcevita.com/post/3082/a-fish-called-wanda-do-you-speak-ita...
Ciao.
> Nyet, it was Russian
I was thinking of this......
http://www.blogdolcevita.com/post/3082/a-fish-called-wanda-do-you-speak-ita...
Ciao.
In reply to Cobbler:
Wow. A picture of a penguin being knighted by the King of Norway.
Now I've lived
Wow. A picture of a penguin being knighted by the King of Norway.
Now I've lived
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
The oldest surviving text in the Gaelic language was written in Aberdeenshire, at Deer Abbey.
Out of interest, how old was it?
The oldest surviving text in the Gaelic language was written in Aberdeenshire, at Deer Abbey.
Out of interest, how old was it?
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Why on earth would penguins speak Norwegian? They live at the wrong pole, they are nearer to The Falklands so would be better off speaking English?
Why on earth would penguins speak Norwegian? They live at the wrong pole, they are nearer to The Falklands so would be better off speaking English?
In reply to Al Evans:
10th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Deer
> Out of interest, how old was it?
10th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Deer
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
Look guys, most of what I have posted here was just to stimulate debate, well I guess it did in a way, except that it's all one way, yep reviving old languages is good but focussing on something we can all understand is bad?
I really didn't think that would be the answer, certainly not the one I was looking for.
Yep old languages should be kept alive, but not as some justification for going back to the past.
In reply to have I learned Spanish, no I haven't, a bit too long in the tooth these days, tried but failed, but what I have observed about the varied Spanish languages is that they cause nothing but strife. Spain would be a better country if it was not divided by language and it didn't have the Basque extremists etc, or the Catalans or the Valencianos striving for independence. It's a geographically sound area, needs to get itself sorted out politically but what it doesn't need is interacial tension among its provinces, which is what language is causing almost solely on its own at the moment.
Look guys, most of what I have posted here was just to stimulate debate, well I guess it did in a way, except that it's all one way, yep reviving old languages is good but focussing on something we can all understand is bad?
I really didn't think that would be the answer, certainly not the one I was looking for.
Yep old languages should be kept alive, but not as some justification for going back to the past.
In reply to have I learned Spanish, no I haven't, a bit too long in the tooth these days, tried but failed, but what I have observed about the varied Spanish languages is that they cause nothing but strife. Spain would be a better country if it was not divided by language and it didn't have the Basque extremists etc, or the Catalans or the Valencianos striving for independence. It's a geographically sound area, needs to get itself sorted out politically but what it doesn't need is interacial tension among its provinces, which is what language is causing almost solely on its own at the moment.
In reply to Al Evans:
>yep reviving old languages is good but focussing on something we can all understand is bad?
No one said that.
No one said that either.
That's a shame. Though (without knowing as much as a Spanish resident like yourself about this) I suspect it might be nearer the mark to say that they've been used as a pretext for strife that people wanted to have anyway.
>yep reviving old languages is good but focussing on something we can all understand is bad?
No one said that.
> Yep old languages should be kept alive, but not as some justification for going back to the past.
No one said that either.
> what I have observed about the varied Spanish languages is that they cause nothing but strife.
That's a shame. Though (without knowing as much as a Spanish resident like yourself about this) I suspect it might be nearer the mark to say that they've been used as a pretext for strife that people wanted to have anyway.
In reply to Al Evans:
I agree with Al here, (and I'm born and brought up in Scotland,) 1.2% of Scots speak gaelic, only a couple of thousand more than the number that speak Polish in Scotland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-24281487.) I don't understand why train stations across Scotland have gaelic names as well as normal names when only 1.2% speak the language and they also speak english as well.
To encourage gaelic in non-gaelic speaking areas (Glasgow for instance,) is wrong and a waste of childrens learning. When there is so much out there for them to learn, all of which is key to their future careers, learning a language spoken by so few is a waste. By all means do it as a hobby, but please don't encourage children to learn it unnecessarily, especially if you don't speak the language yourself (I know several who intend that their children will learn gaelic, even though they don't!)
The spread of gaelic cannot be anything but divisive, I'm Scottish, don't speak gaelic and would be divided because of that from those that do. (I learnt quite a bit of Hindi last year when I spent 6 months in India, I've spent nearly a year in South America and have passable spanish, can get by in french and have poor german for the 2 years spent living in Germany.)
> Well most of the witterings on here are just sad and devisive in terms of the unity of people, nothing can be more stupid than Scottish independance and going back to the gaelic language.
I agree with Al here, (and I'm born and brought up in Scotland,) 1.2% of Scots speak gaelic, only a couple of thousand more than the number that speak Polish in Scotland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-24281487.) I don't understand why train stations across Scotland have gaelic names as well as normal names when only 1.2% speak the language and they also speak english as well.
To encourage gaelic in non-gaelic speaking areas (Glasgow for instance,) is wrong and a waste of childrens learning. When there is so much out there for them to learn, all of which is key to their future careers, learning a language spoken by so few is a waste. By all means do it as a hobby, but please don't encourage children to learn it unnecessarily, especially if you don't speak the language yourself (I know several who intend that their children will learn gaelic, even though they don't!)
The spread of gaelic cannot be anything but divisive, I'm Scottish, don't speak gaelic and would be divided because of that from those that do. (I learnt quite a bit of Hindi last year when I spent 6 months in India, I've spent nearly a year in South America and have passable spanish, can get by in french and have poor german for the 2 years spent living in Germany.)
In reply to jonnie3430:
AS a Gaelic speaker who also speaks French, German and Spanish I find this attitude really sad. Gaelic culture enriches Scotland - in music , literature etc. Some of Scotland's greatest poets are and were Gaelic speakers. A knowledge/understanding of different languages and cultures is an enrichening and mind broadening experience. It's certainly not divisive.
Why are people so afraid of what's seen as "different"?
AS a Gaelic speaker who also speaks French, German and Spanish I find this attitude really sad. Gaelic culture enriches Scotland - in music , literature etc. Some of Scotland's greatest poets are and were Gaelic speakers. A knowledge/understanding of different languages and cultures is an enrichening and mind broadening experience. It's certainly not divisive.
Why are people so afraid of what's seen as "different"?
In reply to The Watch of Barrisdale:
Some examples of what I'm missing would be appreciated, I'm a big fan of Scottish music; Frightened Rabbit, Texas, Snow Patrol and Travis (gig tonight, WAHEY!!) I really enjoy reading; Christopher Brookmyre is at the forefront of excellent Scottish writing at the moment. Having gone to school on the West coast, the characters in a lot of his books are incredibly familiar.
The greatest wasn't though, I understand him fluently.
I would like to think I understand my own culture and language. When someone tries to tell me that my language has now changed and I need to learn another (when the vast majority won't,) I feel divided from those that speak the new language.
I think people don't realise how hard it is to get fluent at a language. Do you really think that it is a worthwhile use of a persons/(or countries!!) time to get (the population,) fluent at gaelic? Yes, I know Sron means nose, etc, but that isn't fluency.
> Gaelic culture enriches Scotland - in music , literature etc.
Some examples of what I'm missing would be appreciated, I'm a big fan of Scottish music; Frightened Rabbit, Texas, Snow Patrol and Travis (gig tonight, WAHEY!!) I really enjoy reading; Christopher Brookmyre is at the forefront of excellent Scottish writing at the moment. Having gone to school on the West coast, the characters in a lot of his books are incredibly familiar.
> Some of Scotland's greatest poets are and were Gaelic speakers.
The greatest wasn't though, I understand him fluently.
> A knowledge/understanding of different languages and cultures is an enrichening and mind broadening experience. It's certainly not divisive.
I would like to think I understand my own culture and language. When someone tries to tell me that my language has now changed and I need to learn another (when the vast majority won't,) I feel divided from those that speak the new language.
> Why are people so afraid of what's seen as "different"?
I think people don't realise how hard it is to get fluent at a language. Do you really think that it is a worthwhile use of a persons/(or countries!!) time to get (the population,) fluent at gaelic? Yes, I know Sron means nose, etc, but that isn't fluency.
Post edited at 16:56
In reply to The Watch of Barrisdale:
I totally agree, but feel that people are better off learning about languages and cultures outside of the UK (the gaelic speaking cultures are not vastly different from other Scottish speaking culture (I'll be interested to hear a thoughtout response to that instead of a knee jerk!)), it will be more useful as you will still be able to speak english to a gaelic speaker, but not to the majority of people around the world.
Anytime two people have a conversation in front of you and you don't understand what they said is divisive; you are not communicating and people start guessing what was said and meant instead of what was.
> A knowledge/understanding of different languages and cultures is an enrichening and mind broadening experience.
I totally agree, but feel that people are better off learning about languages and cultures outside of the UK (the gaelic speaking cultures are not vastly different from other Scottish speaking culture (I'll be interested to hear a thoughtout response to that instead of a knee jerk!)), it will be more useful as you will still be able to speak english to a gaelic speaker, but not to the majority of people around the world.
> It's certainly not divisive.
Anytime two people have a conversation in front of you and you don't understand what they said is divisive; you are not communicating and people start guessing what was said and meant instead of what was.
Post edited at 17:03
In reply to jonnie3430:
>The spread of gaelic cannot be anything but divisive,
The spread of Gaelic can be all sorts of things other than divisive. It depends on our attitudes, doesn't it?
>The spread of gaelic cannot be anything but divisive,
The spread of Gaelic can be all sorts of things other than divisive. It depends on our attitudes, doesn't it?
In reply to Tim Chappell:
And what is the attitude of the big, fat, fishfaced git, that is pushing the spread of gaelic? Is that anything other than divisive?
> >The spread of gaelic cannot be anything but divisive,
> The spread of Gaelic can be all sorts of things other than divisive. It depends on our attitudes, doesn't it?
And what is the attitude of the big, fat, fishfaced git, that is pushing the spread of gaelic? Is that anything other than divisive?
In reply to jonnie3430:
Scotland is a mix of cultures and languages - long may it remain so.
I was a Gaelic learner - my original language is Lowland Scots - and Burns and Sorley MacLean are my favourite poets. I too like Christopher Brookmyre - also Norman McCaig, Angus McNicol, James Kelman and many others who write in English, Scots and Gaelic.
I suspect I am a lot older than you by your musical tastes - nothing wrong with them - I am at the moment enjoying the cross-cultural fest which is Celtic Connections.
Scotland is a mix of cultures and languages - long may it remain so.
I was a Gaelic learner - my original language is Lowland Scots - and Burns and Sorley MacLean are my favourite poets. I too like Christopher Brookmyre - also Norman McCaig, Angus McNicol, James Kelman and many others who write in English, Scots and Gaelic.
I suspect I am a lot older than you by your musical tastes - nothing wrong with them - I am at the moment enjoying the cross-cultural fest which is Celtic Connections.
In reply to jonnie3430:
If you want a response to that, maybe you could explain what you mean?
> And what is the attitude of the big, fat, fishfaced git, that is pushing the spread of gaelic? Is that anything other than divisive?
If you want a response to that, maybe you could explain what you mean?
In reply to The Watch of Barrisdale:
Lets take them seriously then, when 1.2% of the population get so much positive discrimination it makes a joke of our other cultures.
I could learn fluent gaelic, I think it would take the same effort as a degree at university. Given the choice betweens things available to learn and the doors they open, I would choose something else every single time, I would also recommend others the same. By getting fluency in Spanish I can communicate with the majority in South and Central America and also get by with Italians, how is gaelic better than something like that?
Oops! Forgot about Celtic Connections, I usually go to a few gigs each year...
> Scotland is a mix of cultures and languages - long may it remain so.
Lets take them seriously then, when 1.2% of the population get so much positive discrimination it makes a joke of our other cultures.
> I was a Gaelic learner - my original language is Lowland Scots - and Burns and Sorley MacLean are my favourite poets.
I could learn fluent gaelic, I think it would take the same effort as a degree at university. Given the choice betweens things available to learn and the doors they open, I would choose something else every single time, I would also recommend others the same. By getting fluency in Spanish I can communicate with the majority in South and Central America and also get by with Italians, how is gaelic better than something like that?
> I suspect I am a lot older than you by your musical tastes - nothing wrong with them - I am at the moment enjoying the cross-cultural fest which is Celtic Connections.
Oops! Forgot about Celtic Connections, I usually go to a few gigs each year...
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
Ask Tim, I'm sure he understood! (Or didn't pretend not to...)
> If you want a response to that, maybe you could explain what you mean?
Ask Tim, I'm sure he understood! (Or didn't pretend not to...)
Post edited at 17:20
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Sorry I was slow to reply - been away and only just seen this. Thank you, that is very kind! My visit is being arranged by an academic colleague and to some extent we shall be looked after - but perhaps I could contact you once I have some idea of dates and what I'm doing.
> I have a few friends in Moscow, some of whom I have met and some I haven't. If you would like to meet up with someone there to show you around a be a local contact, let me know via pm and I'll try to sort it out. I'm sure at least one of them would welcome the chance to practise their English and show you their city.
Sorry I was slow to reply - been away and only just seen this. Thank you, that is very kind! My visit is being arranged by an academic colleague and to some extent we shall be looked after - but perhaps I could contact you once I have some idea of dates and what I'm doing.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Gaelic in Ireland at least is now 'cool'. Once the poor relative of English and only spoken beyond the pale, my experience from living in ireland is that there is a new renaissance and that many speakers are now finding it 'cool' to be able to chat in Irish.
Good luck to you and your daughter. And Scottish maps (and Irish ones) will give a whole new take on the meaning of 'map reading'
Gaelic in Ireland at least is now 'cool'. Once the poor relative of English and only spoken beyond the pale, my experience from living in ireland is that there is a new renaissance and that many speakers are now finding it 'cool' to be able to chat in Irish.
Good luck to you and your daughter. And Scottish maps (and Irish ones) will give a whole new take on the meaning of 'map reading'
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...