UKC

Has anyone experienced a similar issue to this with Cyborg Pro (rear clip and front bail) crampons and if so is there a way of sorting it?
I got my Cyborgs about 15 months ago and wear them mainly on Sportiva Nepal Evo's. Things went fine last winter season but on wearing them for the first time this year I noticed that although the crampon is as tight on the boot as I can get it the front of the crampon twists on the boot while walking so that it ends up being held on at the front by only a relatively small section of the front bail gripping a bit of the ledge on the boot. The cause of the problem seems to be that the front bail has too much "give" - I can pull the front of the crampon down away from the boot sole quite easily. The problem is worse with the right boot than the left but affects both. Any ideas?

In reply to furbrow:

It gets a mention somewhere on this summit post discussion. I didn't know there's a newer version of the front BD bail.?
Also worth reading Dale on Cold Thistle blog, he's obsessive about his crampon, boot fit combo!

http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/petzl-lynx-on-la-sportiva-and-raichle-heel...

In reply to furbrow:

You may not be able to buy other manufacturers bails to fit BD crampons as the bail bars are quite a lot thicker on BD.

In reply to furbrow:

One option is to beg BD to sell you a normal strap on front section, IMO this is a better fitting anyway (when it fits well).

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Thanks to you and Dek for replies. Doesn't look like there's a well known quick fix. The reason I got Cyborgs in the first place was that my old Grivels' front points did not stick out far enough on my Evo's. I may simply go back to the Grivels and see if I can move the bail back to get more front point length.

In reply to furbrow:
The main reason other than worn down front points that your front point protrusiton became poor was that the bail bars bend with time. This slowly makes the protrusion reduce. The standard grivel bars are really designed for much wider boots with less pointy toes so when combining this with modern leather boots there isn't enough adjustment to account for the bails ageing / bending.

Also as the rubber on your boots wears down the boot can slide further forward in the crampon.

If you buy some new bail bars you'll be able to fix the problem, Grivel now do some narrow bars, for nepals I'd probably start here although I've not tried the combo. Needlesports will be able to tell you if it works or not IMO. On my freneies I use Rambo IV bails on my G14 which massively improves front point protrusion, but these bails are much more asymmetric than the nepals.

In reply to furbrow:

Get a vice and a manly size set of pliers and 'mould' the bail to fit the boots.

In reply to Mr Lopez:
I guess your comment was for the BD poons. IMO the BD bails are not really meant to be bent (grivel say you can bend theres), the metal looks and feels both much harder and more brittle as well as much fatter. I tried to bend some BD bails once and got nowhere.

In reply to furbrow:

These may help, though without seeing your boot / crampon combo I can't be sure.

http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Winter-Climbing-Equipment/Crampons/Cr...

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Yep, very hard to bend the stainless BD bails.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

The problem with the Grivel/Evo combination didn't exist with my old (standard, heavier) pair of Nepal boots. I think the Evo's must be narrower at the toe. One lesson I'm taking from this, pretty obvious really, is - when buying crampons, take your boots with you and try fitting them in the shop!

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Definitely not easy, and though i haven't done so with Grivels i did with Petzl bails and as you say BD's are harder, but nothing that some brute force won't achieve. I managed to get a pair of cyborgs to fit like gloves onto a pair of nepals with some work, but it wasn't pretty...

In reply to Mr Lopez:

What sort of work? Was it just bending the front bails? Brute force with a vice and hammer, or did you use any heat? Just curious, because it's my last option before spending lots of money!

In reply to NottsRich:

I first bent them in a 'folding' way using the vice (as in the bails spanning the gap and the vice doing the folding work) and holding them in place with the pliers. This was really scary as it seemed they were just going to ping off (and one in fact did, but didn't go far), so full face motorcycle helmet and gloves probably advised. I lined the inner surface of the vice with several layers of duct tape so that the ends had something to bite into and not skid off.

Once they were narrowed enough (they spring back, so you have to push them farther than you think you need) it was a matter of working the ends until i could feed them through the holes in the crampons. This involved 'viceing' them on the ends and some serious lever action. It went through my head that the hammer could have been useful at this stage, but i thought that'd cause more damage than anything.

Once it looked like they could be pushed in i viced the crampon and forced the bails ends through the holes with the help of the pliers and the old trusty hammer. It was a good thing they fitted ok, as i would never have been able to take them out ever again...

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Thanks for that. I did try what you were suggesting a few months ago but perhaps I didn't put enough effort in. It felt like they were going to snap before they bent! I'll have another go.

In reply to NottsRich:

Yeah, i had the same, but figured they wouldn't be fitted to a pair of crampons if they were that brittle, although not trusting my logic i went all in with bomb disposal style PPE...

In reply to furbrow:

Hi, I had the same problem when first bought my Cyborgs a couple of years ago. I replaced the front bail with a Grivel spare, bought I think from Needle Sports and they are a brilliant fit. My boots are Scarpa Phantom Guide and the standard piece fit fine. They also do a retro fit BD bail and special narrow fit ones as well, though have not used them.

In reply to sticks:

I've got the retro fitted narrow BD bails at the moment, and they're still to wide. If there were front posts on the crampon the boot would fit fine, but the bails seem to bend outwards before they go across the front of the boot. Not sure why.

I'll have a look at Grivel spare bails, thanks, once I've attacked the current ones with a hammer!