/ First E6..

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johncoxmysteriously - on 20 Jan 2014
Earliest route to have been climbed now given E6, as opposed to the first route given E6.

I know we've had this conversation before, and IIRC the consensus is:-

Definitely not the 'traditional' Lord of the Flies (first route *given* E6, perhaps).

Avon routes from 1979 - Aardvark and maybe Lost Illusions with the original Spartan pegging.

Narcissus (1977?)

Desperate Dan and Slip 'n' Slide (1977 and even 1976, I think)?

Maybe Quiver (1974; think the guide says E5/6).

However, while climbing at Avon this Sunday I noticed a route there now given E6 and done even earlier (1972).

Anyone care to guess, without looking in the guide?

jcm
The Pylon King on 20 Jan 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Piton Route?
Alex Winter - on 20 Jan 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Smoove Groove?
pete johnson - on 20 Jan 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Quick Flash?, Just So?
Mark Morris - on 20 Jan 2014
In reply to The Pylon King:

"Piton Route?" genuine LOL
tmawer - on 20 Jan 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Beatnik at Helsby?
Tyler - on 20 Jan 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Guillotine at Ilkley now gets E6, my guide doesn't give an exact date it just says 1975 so I'd guess later than Beatnik anyway.
robandian - on 20 Jan 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Giggling crack Brimham ?
Coel Hellier - on 20 Jan 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Isn't there something in the "Over the Moors" guide that was put up in about 1910 in hobnail boots and given VDiff, that the guidebook authors reckoned was actually E6 (though with a teensy bit of doubt about the first ascent)?

(PS, from your thread title, I thought you had big ambitions for the year!)
abarro81 - on 20 Jan 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Not a clue but I'm intrigued now! Good thread
Mick Ward - on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Tyler:

Didn't something come off Guillotine? Woops, just realised my double entendre! I mean after the FA. I think it was supposed to be E5 for a long time.

Had a bizarre experience with this route. Was just about to solo it (headpoint obviously, I'm a total coward). Went down to the tea shack for a pre-route relax. On the guy's portable television, a plane flew into a tower. We looked at each other, gobsmacked. Special effects? Sadly, not so. September 11, 2001.

When we realised it was for real, doing Guillotine seemed like an egotistical obscenity. Instead I spent the rest of the afternoon soloing favourites from the 1970s, in a vain attempt at healing.

Wrote a little piece for Climbing which they kindly published. As I recall, the final line was, 'Guillotine. Something is severed inside.'

Mick
Franco Cookson on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Cardiac arrest at Highcliffe nab was done in 1979. Now solid E6. Narcissus isn't E6 really is it?
Al Evans on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Mick Ward:

Something touched me deep inside

"I met a girl who sang the blues
And I asked her for some happy news
But she just smiled and turned away
I went down to the sacred store
Where I'd heard the music years before
But the man there said the music wouldn't play
And in the streets the children screamed
The lovers cried, and the poets dreamed
But not a word was spoken
The church bells all were broken
And the three men I admire most-
the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost-
They caught the last train for the coast
The day the music died
And they were singing
Al Evans on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Franco Cookson:

I'd hardly think so, you could jump off the top with a mat.
Franco Cookson on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Al Evans:

you're referring to narcissus there I hope!
Al Evans on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Franco Cookson:

Yes
Dave Garnett - on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to Franco Cookson)
>
> I'd hardly think so, you could jump off the top with a mat.

Except, of course, that you wouldn't have one.
John Gillott - on 21 Jan 2014
johncoxmysteriously - on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to John Gillott:

Yeah, Narcissus sans mat is definitely a grade harder than White Wand, and no-one minds that being E5. Narcissus kinda sneaks up on you at the top.

Anyway, the first poster was correct with my little quiz Ė Smoove Groove it is. A search reminds me that weíve had this discussion before although about the first E5; apparently SG was first done with peg protection on the L (somewhere) so presumably doesnít count anyway; in fact an 80ís Avon activist informs me that "all those routes around there were piss in the 1970s before generations of ******* abseilers wrecked the friction" (or something like that, anyway).

Still, I wonder when it was first soloed. Perhaps history doesnít record this.

I see, anyway, thatís itís E6 in the latest guide. Which probably isnít so far wrong for an onsight matless solo; I havenít been on it for 15 years (and not as an oms by any means) but it struck me as quite insecure then and I donít suppose itís got any easier. Still, Iíd imagine this upgrading might have attracted a bit of ribaldry from the more austere locals.

jcm
Mick Ward - on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Al Evans:

> The day the music died...

Thanks, Al. That's exactly what it was like. I had the same sensation on the evening of November 22 1963, on hearing the news of President Kennedy's assassination. Everything seemed eerie, unreal.

Shortly afterwards, I left Sheffield for Portland. Not been back to Ilkley, so Guillotine is unfinished business. Might feel a bit weird still.

Somewhat back on topic, I think Iain Edwards may have done the FA a few days before Pete. Iain pushed hard; he was necky. He never got the credit he deserved (e.g. seemingly the FFA of Great Wall).

Mick


ads.ukclimbing.com
Tyler - on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Mick Ward:

> He never got the credit he deserved (e.g. seemingly the FFA of Great Wall).

Great Wall on Cloggy? Is this widely known/accepted? More importantly, did he use chalk....?

Mick Ward - on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Tyler:

> Great Wall on Cloggy?

Yes.


> Is this widely known/accepted?

Probably not widely known, but...

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=3916

(Bill Turner's contribution)


> More importantly, did he use chalk....?

Having helped to get women into the CC, Ken needed another crusade. Chalk, then bolts, provided it. (I would emphasise his heart was always in the right place.)

Mick
Offwidth - on 21 Jan 2014
In reply to Coel Hellier:

The old VD on Noe Stool goes up the front then traverses a ledge round to the back to a silly artificial finish, I did it and its tough VS and at least 5a. The E6 goes straight up the front.
Ed Booth - on 27 Jan 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Quiver on cloggy?
Al Evans on 27 Jan 2014
In reply to Ed Booth:
There has to be more early E6's than this lot, my memory on dates is going these days but is Great Arete really only E5, or come to that Edge Lane?
Or come to that the free version of my own Menopause.
Post edited at 11:01
shark - on 27 Jan 2014
Less parochially I expect the first route that was actually E6 is propbably in the States.

Maybe this one ?

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/macabre-wall-proper/108604536
johncoxmysteriously - on 27 Jan 2014
In reply to shark:

Or Bohemia. If we're staying in the US, I'd imagine The Thimble takes the crown.

Never heard of Ogden or Macabre Wall. Looks fun, though. By the same token I wonder what Foops or, er, whatever John Stannard's massive 5.12a roof at the Gunks is called, would be in UK grades. It's such a shame the Americans won't use a sensible grading system to allow a proper comparison.

jcm
Adam Long - on 27 Jan 2014
In reply to Al Evans:

Done all those three and, yes, definitely all E5 tops.
Gus - on 27 Jan 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Piece of Mind in 1977 is pretty impressive I reckon. Proper tough, scary E6 too!
Al Evans on 27 Jan 2014
In reply to Adam Long:

> Done all those three and, yes, definitely all E5 tops.

I bow to your greater knowledge of those routes.

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