UKC

I'm buying some Quarks and wondering if I should get the clipper leashes at the same time (I would get a very good deal on them if I did)?

I'm settled on the quarks as an all-round mountaineering axe and a leash of sorts is a must as I WILL drop the tools at some point. Would I be better with some spinner leashes though? These tools have grip rests so I'm wondering how much I'd be relying on the leashes for resting? All of the leashes that I have used in the past have been homemade out of tape or slings.

As I say, it will be much cheaper for me to get them at the same time as the axes so I'm not going to be able to try them without first.

Cheers, Martin

PS - as I say, these will be all-round mountaineering axe/axes. I don't see myself going above Scottish IV or V anytime soon (if at all) and certainly won't be doing any dry tooling or waterfall ice...

In reply to Martin1978:

go for the Spinners, I have.

and then if just walking rather than climbing just use a sling...

In reply to AdCo82:

That was my thinking. Actually I was thinking I could use a spinner for walking also (clipped through head obviously), as wrist leashes are a pain in the ass for walking.

Cheers, Martin

In reply to Martin1978:

yep that'll do...I just go for a sling when when walking as one strand is less faff....great leashes leashes and great axes...

now the Lake District just needs a proper winter!

In reply to AdCo82:

Yeah, at the moment I'm set on Scotland for the end of February and not getting my hopes up for anything else. If it happens it'll be a bonus!

In reply to Martin1978:

likewise...I'm relying on my Scotland trip. Rumour has it that it's going going colder by Monday....we'll see!

In reply to Martin1978:

Martin - I think it is important not to think of wrist loops (clippers or not) and 'umbilical leashes' (BD spinners, Grivel Double Spring etc.) as alternatives to each other - because they're not really.

Wrist loops are about taking your weight and allowing you to hold on to your ice tool better when climbing. Umbilicals are about you not loosing a tool if drop one. In the old days when everyone used wrist loops some people used homemade umbilicals in addition, because often you would take your hand out of the wrist loop in order to place a screw etc.

For me, wrist loops are most useful when leading at the very top of my grade and when I know that getting pumped and falling before I've clipped an ice screw is possible (but of course a very bad idea). I tend not to use them seconding or leading below my hardest grade because I can hang on long enough then/the prospect of falling is so severe. Then all the advantages of leashless climbing come into play.

You say you don't want to climb waterfall ice or even sustained Scottish ice - in which case I wouldn't bother with wrist loops on the Quarks, just get an umbilical instead. Have you climbed a lot with wrist loops before? If you haven't then you won't know what you are missing anyway, so best just to learn what it your limit to climb without wrist loops safely.

In reply to TobyA:
Hi Toby,

I don't have a lot of experience with wrist loops, or without really. I've climbed bits on and off over the years, and only really relied on wrist loops for support when using a walking axe on steep ice. As you've suggested, I'll be seconding routes harder routes for the next few years and only leading/soloing on easier ground.

I much prefer the idea of not having wrist leashes and using the grip rests. That is one of the reasons I went for the quarks, and the fact they seem to be a good multipurpose tool. Hoping these will be a sound "investment" for the future of my winter climbing.

I shall go for a clipper leash for now (probably the DMM Freedom leash).

Cheers,
Martin

In reply to Martin1978:

I got a freedom leash too, to use with the DMM Switches I'm reviewing. It seems absolutely fine so far. Nice, light and minimalist; doesn't get in the way etc and no more tangling problems than you would expect. I even managed to drop a tool a bit climbing on Sunday - it sort of stuck lower in the crack I was "involved with" at the time, but the leash meant I could fish it out and back with no problems.

In reply to TobyA:


That should of course say "the prospect of falling is NOT so severe"! Duh. Sorry.

In reply to TobyA:
Cool, I like the simplicity (and price) of it so will give it a go.


(I figured that's what you meant)

In reply to TobyA:

Toby,

Is the Freedom Leash designed to hold a fall, or pretty much just to stop you losing your tools if you drop them? Rockrun site has this as part of the advert blurb:

"Clip in points halfway up the leashes supposedly allow you to clip in a sling to climb back up to your axes should you fall off (if the leash holds then your axes will be out of reach). This is definitely not to be recommended! A possibly more practical use is to be able to clip in short and take a sly rest on your axes mid-pitch."

Bit worried that they're saying "if the leash holds" and also advising against using the clip in points (because they think they will snap???)

DMM site seems to suggest that they're not for taking falls/holding weight...

Never quite understood why companies are so reluctant to make a load bearing leash system - surely it's possible? I've got a homegrown system of 22kN 16ft open/round sling with stretched bungee inside it, overhand at each end and another in the middle, with screw gate krab at mid-knot and non-screwgates at end knots - this to me seems as close to a weight bearing leash system as you can get. Looks very similar to the Freedom Leash but is (I assume) much more kN friendly due to the materials involved being rated higher?? Or am I massively missing something here?

Nice article here about the matter:

http://mountainlessons.com/gear/umbilicaldesign

Penny for your (and other peoples) thoughts....

Cheers,
Gordon

In reply to peebles boy:

Yep - not really sure what the mid-clip-in points are for - you'd have to get krabs through them to pull up on them anyway so it would be a total faff using them to pull back up to your tools. Getting a krab through whilst hanging on them would be tricky - although they are sewn so as not close under stress so maybe it's doable.

They say 2 KN on them - maybe enough to hold a very short slidey fall? But I know plenty of ice climbers who think have the idea off pulling your tool out and down into your face is far worse a prospect than falling not attached to your tools and hence don't use umbilicals for the single pitch type of ice climbing we do around where I live.

I've not really thought too much about it in the past, but it does seem that people are increasingly thinking umbilicals are sort of a replacement for wrist loops, in as much as you expect them to hold you on to the cliff when your hand is so pumped you can't grip anymore. But they don't necessarily as that video of people falling of Aladin's Mirror shows. Perhaps wrist loops aren't as passe as so many people like to say, if the alternative is falling.

In reply to Martin1978:

If you have 6 minutes with really nothing better to do, I've put some raw headcam footage of me using the freedom leash with the switches here youtube.com/watch?v=IWMW2j4H2hA& It's rather dull as the ice was very thin and cold (so brittle) and I was soloing, so did lots of standing around tip-tapping gently to find reliable sticks - but you can see the leashes doing their thing.

In reply to TobyA:

It's a "teacher training day", so I've got plenty of time :p

The leashes look just the job, so thanks for posting that. They'll do for what I want and I'll probably clip them to the head of the axe when walking so they'll get plenty of use. £15 is a good price also.