UKC

I see BD are now offering their sabre-tooth crampons in classic (cage front and rear) or semi (cage on front).

What is the general opinion of classic binding Vs semi for climbing Grade V ice. I have full step in but fancy a change and see the advantages of a classic binding for speed and less faffing. But does the heal bale make that much difference?

Much appreciated

E

In reply to Euge: balanced view here http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/getting_the_right_crampon

In reply to Euge:

For ice I'd imagine you'd want the semi step in as they apparently are more stable on the boot. Not tried classics but was always advised that semis are the best for most things.

In reply to Euge:


They are neither faster to put on or less faff than step-ins, so not really sure why you would change? Possibly the fit is more secure with semis or full-strap, but is the fit bad with your current ones?

In reply to Mountain Llama:

I see that Andy says that the classic binding should be threaded back on itself to finish it off. I've read that elsewhwere recently. Grivel do not suggest this though and show the way I've always done it, and in line with their instruction leaflet (and common sense):

youtube.com/watch?v=fri5GfYihac&

Anyone know what he means by threading it back, or have a pic? Surely it'll be a PITA to undo?

In reply to Martin1978: just looked at retreading on my crampons via the twin loops. By passing back through both loops just seems to keep the strap out of the way from snagging on anything. I would not say it's any more secure but a good idea to keep the end of the strap out of danger.

I have grivel crampons with all the three fixing systems and using the strap and twin loops as per destructions I have never had a strap come loose. I do tuck the end of the strap behind the tightened strap to keep it out of the way.

May be I am missing something?

In reply to Mountain Llama:

I've never had a strap come undone with classic bindings either. I usually tuck any excess inside my gaiters.

I have used two sets of New-matics. One broke at the foot of a glacier, the other half-way up Pisco. Both were hire items on hired boots, but even so, lashing them on with bits of prussic cord at 3am wasn't much fun. Not suggesting that it's a regular problem, but if I was ever hiring again I'd go for the classic bindings.



Sorry, not helping the OP much.

In reply to Martin1978:


If it was the plastic front basket snapping - then it was a regular problem, at least with the orignal yellow three piece design. Mine broke at room temperature and various other UKC regulars had the same problem. Don't know if the newer one piece designs can snap, mine has been fine although I sheared the rivets off on mine and had to get it fixed a second time.

In reply to TobyA:

Both were problems with the rear lever lock, one must have stripped the thread and the other just kept slipping, again I suspect the threads. They worked in the shop, and again when checking at morraine camps, but they failed on the day (the first when fitting at the foot of the glacier). I didn't pay anymore attention than that to them to be honest, was happy to give them back!

I used a different hire shop the next time and triple checked everything in the shop, and they were fine for the two days that we used them, although a bit fussy with worn boots.

I would buy them if I needed them, but for what I climb/walk I'm happy with the simpler classic bindings.

In reply to TobyA:

From Andy Kirkpatrick's article

"Firstly, the step-in isn’t as quick to don as people imagine (once you’re not in your house or in the shop that is), with the hybrid binding being far faster, with a great deal more care being required when locating the front bail correctly so they don’t pop mid pitch. This process can also be more difficult if your boots are covered in ice and frozen mud and the front bail’s holding power is dependent on the crampon’s hold over the front welt of the boot, a potential problem with many modern leather boots featuring faster wearing welts. Getting the right fit can be quite an involved process with some step-in models, meaning switching them between different boots can be a real pain."

In reply to Euge:

I think Andy is over-egging his pudding there. If you don't have any crampons - then I reckon a pair of semi-autos is probably the most sensible and multipurpose binding to go for, but there's no real difference in time in putting them on. Full old fashioned straps were much more hassle (although very secure) but I've been using semi autos regularly since 2000 and have had different step ins since 93 I think. And I used both my newmatic G12s and step in Terminators for ice climbing in the last week, so that's my experience.