UKC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b039086d/The_Naked_Rambler/

Anyone else see this last night...I know that the subject has been talked about on UKC before.
A fascinating insight into the man himself.
Pete

In reply to Pete Ford:

Yes, watched this and enjoyed it. Hardy soul indeed and quite a character. would like to bump into him when out & about, would be only too happy to sit and share butties and a coffee with him. Total loon mind but who isn't?

In reply to wilkie14c:


I'd rephrase that given he's naked

In reply to Pete Ford:

No worse than a Saturday night in a student city. His 'followers' are a bit weirder..

In reply to crayefish:

lol perhaps a poor choice of words on my behalf there! But it did raise his profile and show the public what an approchable chap he was. Not sure about going for a naked wander along stange with him though.

In reply to Pete Ford:

Guess I'm in a minority, I thought he came across as a total tosser. I'm ok with his right to wander naked, across moorland and trails etc, but when he feels he has to prove a point walking past schoolkids and buying mars bars from shops in the buff, then thats totally unacceptable.

Strange about the kids n'all

In reply to JamButty:


From the same shop that no doubt sells magazines with naked pictures in. You can see the irony

In reply to wilkie14c:

Except they're generally covered up. I'd really like to have to select my pick n mix from the lower shelves after his gonads had been floating past.

In reply to JamButty:


How come?

In reply to Pete Ford:

What a nob.
It was the casual farting that wound me up, saying he could do what he likes. But forgetting that no one wants to smell his guff, no respect for other people, utterly selfish. A complete prick with no point.

In reply to Ste Brom:



I'm sure there's a joke to be made here....

In reply to JamButty:


I'm not sure I'd go that far, but after watching the show (and allowing for third-party editing, which will always distort a person's character), my empathy for the guy is reduced and my concern for his well-being is massively increased. Much of his behaviour is consistent with sociopathy, and his lack of regret over not seeing his kids grow up was distressing to watch, particularly his justification for his stance.

I can only imagine the emergency conflab as they were getting closer and closer to the school: the interviewer was sounding increasingly panicky.

Having said that, the entire furore about public nakedness is a bit hypocritical and we should perhaps be less inclined to back a man like this into a corner. The attribution of a sexual motive to his actions is clearly mistaken, and the presumption of paedophilia isn't helping to eradicate the actual problem of paedophilia.

Martin

In reply to JamButty:
>
but you're judging him on how you expect a "normal" person to behave, and he's on a different level of single-mindedness - in the case of going past the school he had, in his own mind, to keep heading on his route South no matter what.

In reply to Pete Ford:

He seemed a bit bonkers but harmless. It was clearly a waste of tax payers money for him to have spent 6 or 7 years in prison. It certainly didn't have any effect on his attitude or ( supposedly distressing and lewd )behaviour.

In reply to Pete Ford:

I can't help thinking that instead of just sending him back to the slammer again and again and again on public order or indecency charges, they could of used the mental health act to get the man some help. Which I think he clearly needs.

In reply to OwenM:

Whos to say walking around without any clothes on is any more strange than climbing rocks just for fun

In reply to Pete Ford:

I only saw a bit of it, but I did think it slightly odd that he got dressed to get into his tent at night rather than just slipping into a sleeping bag/liner

In reply to wilkie14c:


The nakedness isn't the distressing part, I think: it's the issues that are clearly behind it. I could give out lollipops to kids, and would have brightened up a lot of days. But the motivations and the mindset behind the action would be significant - kindly old man or depraved pervert?

I always considered the guy to be a bit driven, but laidback and - most importantly - in control of his actions; having seen the programme, his mental processing makes me concerned for his well-being.

The real discussion would be, if we accept that non-sexual naturism isn't going to bring about the End of Days, does it matter if the route to public nudity reveals a troubled mind? How far is society able to intrude on his resistance to being assessed by mental health professionals?

Has he ever been attacked, I missed a bit of the programme?

In reply to JamButty: You aren't in a minority, I thought he was a selfish tosser too. He wants "freedom" but then manages to lose it by being in jail, he deprives his kids of a father, and his wife of a husband. He displayed no empathy towards others, yet expected in it spades, and has no understanding of how a civil society works. I don't mind him being naked, but his failure to understand that his actions are (oin balance) harmful was simply sociopathic.

In reply to Ste Brom:


Is this really what you took from this program ? That he farts in a bus-shelter without feeling the need to say "Oh, excuse me !" ?

He struck me as being a modern-day Don Quixote. (He even has some part-time Sancho Panzas following him around and cooking for him !). A man who is following a heart-felt principal, oblivious to the apparent pointlessness of the cause, and the effect of his behaviour on those closest to him, as well as those he passes by.

I think he needs help, but I also believe that it is down to him to seek it, rather than for society to foist help onto him.

At least he had a guiding principle in his life, unlike his second supporter, who seemed to be there because people smiling as they passed made him feel liked.

A very sad program.

Rug

In reply to maisie:

As far as I know he hasn't been attacked but there were some pretty angry people shouting at him. I do agree with all that his thought prosess isn't like the rest of us <I'd rather say that than dismiss him as a nutter>
Agreed that it made me uncomfortable when talking about his kids and ease he seemed to have left them. I think he is different and eccentric, certainly appeared harmless and no history of ever being a danger to anyone.

In reply to Frank the Husky:


I agree.....I also don't think it appropriate to walk around naked in the way he does. There are naturist places if he wants to do that stuff or he could strip off and walk in remote places if that's what he likes.
As for walking past schools etc....its just out of order and not within the parameters of what social norms in our society.

In reply to abr1966:


There is a very similar argument made by a sector of society that people who venture into the mountains (especially in winter) should be prevented from doing so. It is very hard to argue that doing what you want to do is OK, if you are trying to prevent others from doing what they want to do. As long as the activity is reasonably harmless, then I don't see the need to stop it.

Rug

In reply to rug:

Depends on what one constitutes to be reasonably harmless.....that could be a very long thread!
I may have some bias as I work in child protection and a common defence is one of being harmless,,,, would it be OK to stop outside a school whilst naked do you think and talk to the children?

In reply to Pete Ford:

Haven't seen it as it's not been shown in Aus, but, from what I've read at various news sources, the man shows all the signs of being a classic narcissistic personality disorder.

In reply to abr1966:



Much as I don't think the naked rambler has a cause, as such, it did make me question this very issue. You seem to think a child is harmed in some way by seeing a naked person. Is that right? Can you expand on it further? The people on the programme who were offended by him tended to say vague things about paedophiles but nudity - in its simplest, purist form - isn't offensive and isn't criminal.

In reply to abr1966:

Speaking with my parental hat on, I think I would be rather more concerned about a 50 something man waiting outside a school to talk with the kids, than with a one-off event of him walking past the school naked - especially given that it was quite apparent from the film (although, granted, it would not be apparent to parents/children at the school, hence the complaints) that the arrival at the school at leaving time was entirely coincidental.

With your child protection hat on (and kudos to you BTW), which would concern you more ?

Another unrelated point... Much mention was made of him not having seen his kids for 6.5 years. To be fair to the fella, he had been in prison for those 6.5 years, so it probably didn't have that much to do with his preference on the matter, and he did see them as soon as he made it 'home'. As to his professing that the lack of contact was worth it in order for him to persue his cause, I suspect that as he had made this cause his life's goal, he would have to admit to his life being utterly pointless if it (his cause) was not worth the sacrifice. He was also separated, and so his contact with them would have been limited to an extent anyway. I suspect that highlighting this was largely an editorial decision, and you would need to spend more time talking to him face to face to get the real picture. Even then, he didn't seem the most articulate of men, so it still may not be apparent what his view actually was.

But then I'm probably over-thinking this all, and projecting my own hangups onto the program.

Rug

In reply to abr1966:

The naked rambler is an ex Royal Marine, is that not part of their training that they do lots of naked things together ?

In reply to Pete Ford:

If we, or our children, see a penis then it is quite likely that they will die. For this reason nudity cannot be tolerated!

In reply to andrewmcleod:

Oh no how longer after exposure does it take effect?

In reply to wilkie14c:


Yeah but it is illegal, rock climbing is; not for the most part. By definition it is a lot more strange. He is a unique case, there are lots of climbers

In reply to Lukeva:

Its not actually illegal, that was picked up in the programme. If people complain it can then become illegal as consider a breach of the peace, which is why he's not often arrested away from the public view, but when he walks around shops he deserves to be arrested.

In reply to nufkin:


It is unacceptable because the law says so, that is a fact. It is also very disconcerting to ramble naked past a bunch of school kids IMO, could be ASPD or NPD

In reply to Lukeva:

Being a homosexual was illegal until fairly recently so I think that is what his 'point' is, a questioning of the law makers

In reply to JamButty:


exactly that is when it becomes a crime.

In reply to Lukeva:

could be ASPD or NPD

agree there's something not right with him, and to keep locking him up for the same offence does no-one any favours, but unless he voluntarily goes for assessment what else could be done.
Police are only doing their job.

In reply to wilkie14c:
I was just responding to a question and stating the facts as they stand not really commenting on the law itself. Notwithstanding that I think it is morally wrong to parade naked in front of kids.

In reply to Pete Ford:
Being naked and rock climbing are equally illegal, i.e. not. It all depends where you are doing it...

If you get naked in a busy high street, the current law of the land is (something like) that if you cause offence you are committing a breach of the peace which is illegal.

If you go climbing on some land without permission, you are committing trespass which is admittedly not criminal initially but can become so if you refused to leave. And of course lots of climbing happens without explicit access permission...

In reply to Lukeva:

Yea I know that bud, I was just countering it, I'm on both sides of the fence here. I don't think he parades as such, he doesn't even draw attention to his nakedness, he lets others do that for him. Its a strange situation and over and above anything else its obviously a huge drain on police and CPS resorces

Very sad that we have come to a state of affairs where people are offended by the sight of a naked body . We started wearing cloths because of the climate I would imagine.
The only person the naked rambler has /is harming is himself and maybe his children by depriving them of his fatherhood , I feel sorry for him , the extremes he has put himself through to make a point , and am surprised he has not made himself hypodermic walking naked in the cold.

In reply to David Best:
and am surprised he has not made himself hypodermic walking naked in the cold.

Must. Not. make. "little prick". joke

damn

In reply to wilkie14c:

I'm sure if he went from bothy to bothy nobody would care too much...

In reply to toad:

Brilliant

In reply to David Best:



He may be offending lots of people (especially the parents), that may well be his 'point' who knows what is going through is mind. He may be very manipulative... his point may be 'look at ME' not 'look at society'. It's a bit sinister isn't it?

In reply to toad:

ha

In reply to Lukeva:


I suppose it's not very thoughtful to parade naked in front of anybody if they don't want to see that, but if he's not doing it for sexual purposes the fact that it's children he's passing is irrelevant, surely? I'd expect children would just find it amusing, not traumatic

In reply to nufkin:


I'd like the opportunity to choose whether my kids see this ugly naked screwed up man, not have it imposed on them ad hoc due to his personality disorder.

In reply to stroppygob:

Fair enough. My thinking was just that there isn't really anything wrong with children seeing naked people as such, and that objection came more from parents projecting their own - and society's - aversion to nakedness upon their children, under the pretext of harm being done

In reply to stroppygob:


If he wasn't ugly would it be OK?

In reply to Doghouse:

I'm just watching it now on iPlayer.

Just got to the big Scottish chap wittering on about it being bad, "what with Jimmy Saville and Paedophila and everything"

Don't get the connection really

In reply to Doghouse:

Doesn't sound terribly coherent or to be able to articulate 'why' he's doing it exactly. Starts a lot of sentences with "I'm not doing it for the publicity, I'm doing it for..." and then never really finishes the sentence.

So far anyway.

In reply to shirleynot:


Yes, but he should have a little black cocktail dress in this Bergan for walking round town in.

In reply to nufkin:


No doubt, in most cases!

We wear clothes to hide a modesty as well as insulation. Let's face it the vast majority of people we don't want to see naked... shudder at the thought as I look round my place of work. Let's hope he doesn't set a precedent, and that he keeps his fetish to the hill where spirits are more free

youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo&

this is what i got from 50% of the forum

Met the guy once in a bothy in the Caingorms (with his girlfriend).

Myself and some others staying discussed with him why he was doing it, of course. It seemed to relate most strongly to his urge to go with a feeling of being part of something bigger than himself, of going with the urge to do it(expressed in the film by him of expanding and knowing what he wanted). Ultimately it seemed to make him happy. He could'nt really put it into words but then his actions say more than his words and as he says it does make you think.
Didnt strike me as any more pointless or selfish than risking your life on a mountain or a climb.

By coincidence, in the bothy that night was a young man who had exposed himself to the Queen at a reception at Buckingham Palace. Did it for a bet of £100. Something of a contrast.