/ First trad rack!

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Finlay.george - on 23 Jan 2014
DMM-wallnuts set 1-11
DMM 4cu cams sizes 0.5/1/1.25/1.5/2
5-60cm runners
6-25cm quick draws
4-locking Caribbeans
1-240cm sling
1-120cm sling
1-nut tool

would this be a good trad rack to start with?
only planning on doing small single pitch climbs around Cornwall.
martinph78 on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

Looks like a good start. I've not done any climbing around cornwall, but some DMM torque nuts or similar large hexes might be worth adding, maybe in place of some of the cams?
Monk - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

I wouldn't bother with the 1.25 cam. And I'd probably get 2 more quickdraws and 2 less 60cm slings. Other than that, looks good.
Finlay.george - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Martin1978:

I have been looking at DMM torque nuts
1poundSOCKS - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george: I'd say 2 locking Caribbeans at most. :)

To contradict Martin, I'd stick with the cams.

Phill Mitch - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george: I would probably drop the 1.25 cam and get a couple more quick draws, might get a 2.5 or a 3 cam also.
Good luck and enjoy.

origamib - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

A set like this is worth looking at: http://www.dicksclimbing.com/products/dmm-protection-set?utm_source=googlepla&utm_medium=cpc

Pretty cheap price and will give you a full set of protection and maybe add cams on if you can afford it...
Jamie B - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

You need more nuts, if not another full set at least duplicates between about sizes 3-8. More 120cm slings as well.
forcan - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

Good start, now go climbing with other people who have their own gear, and whatever you borrow from them, buy it yourself and add to your rack!!
SteveoS - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

> I'd say 2 locking Caribbeans at most. :)

> To contradict Martin, I'd stick with the cams.

Disagree completely.

3 screwgates, 1 for each bit of gear on your anchor, 1 to take the clove hitches and 1 to belay from.

You don't need cams, 90% of the stuff in Cornwall has been climbed without them.
Otis - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

You'll need a few snap gates to go with the cams (no point weighing yourself down with quick draws for use on dmm cams). The colour coded spectre or phantom crabs are quite spangly and can help you pick out the right cam from your rack.

As others have mentioned its worth adding a couple more 120 slings (immediately) and another set of nuts (you may get away without these to start with if you're lucky).

Mike
Otis - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

Ps you might consider a few shorter quick draws too. They can be useful low down on routes to cut down fall distances slightly if you ping off close to the ground. A marginal benefit, but definitely a psychological boost at times!
Trevers - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

I would get 2 each of the longer slings. Often 2x240 slings make the perfect belay, and you don't want to pass on the ideal thread opportunity because you're trying to conserve your 120
1poundSOCKS - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to SteveoS:
You don't need nuts either, or a rope. And 90% of routes at Stanage were first climbed without a harness. :)

I generally use snap gates for anchors.
Post edited at 09:00
Nick Russell on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

Everyone will have their opinion on what to change, but that will be fine. It's similar to what I started out with: a set of nuts (Metolius), 10 quickdraws (no extenders), and 5xBD camalots (0.5-3).
In reply to Finlay.george:

yep as a trad beginner myself being out a couple of times I'd get one more 120cm sling possibly a 240cm just for belays
duchessofmalfi - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to ivebittenoffmorethanicanstu:

Don't bother with the really long slings - just learn to use the rope to tie belays it is faster and more effective.
nightmonkeyuk - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

I have some cams for sale which might interest you.
Much cheapness.
deacondeacon - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

That will be a nice sized beginner rack which should be plenty to get going on, on single pitch granite. Start with this and see what you tend to feel that you're missing once you've been doing it a while.
You'll also have your partners rack so like others have said, if you're constantly borrowing a certain piece of kit you'll know what to treat yourself to next time you're shopping.

I was in the outdoors shop near lemon quay in Truro at Christmas ( over the dual carriageway) and they had a sale on climbing hardware. Also buying so much at the same time I'd expect a couple of freebies :)

Good luck.
Paul Hy - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to forcan:

> Good start, now go climbing with other people who have their own gear, and whatever you borrow from them, buy it yourself and add to your rack!!

great advise.

also i'd drop the 1.25 cam and get a 3.
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nclarey - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

Hexes?!?! :-)
Ban1 - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

NOT HEXES

you might have trouble escaping the anchor just using rope so a couple of 240 slings are great. you can always tie them shorter or double them up
GridNorth - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Ban1:

In almost 50 years of climbing I have never felt a need for 1 x 240cm sling never mind 2.
Ban1 - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to GridNorth:

what would you suggest for anchor building?. i only enjoy 240 slings as they can be so useful. sling boulders/lots of extra to play with.

but i am still just an pup compared to your experience.
GridNorth - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Ban1:

I mostly use the ropes but I do carry a couple of 120cm slings. One in case I can use it as a thread on the route and one if I need to thread anything for the belay. Admittedly there are times when a 240cm would be handy but not that often. They are a bit of a pain to manage IMO.
Ban1 - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to GridNorth:

ive never been a fan of building out of rope. ok for single pitch but still not as easy to equalise as slings. but is swings and roundabouts both are needed depending on the situation
GridNorth - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Ban1:

I disagree. The easiest and possibly most efficient and affective way of equalising is with double ropes. It can be a faff with singles though.
Owen W-G - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

IMO, get a couple more slings and DO get cams. Sets of 3x WC friends can go at a decent price. Any sizes in 0.5-3 range useful and you can fill in the gaps at a later date. A couple of hexes useful but don't bother with a full set.
David Coley - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Ban1:

> ive never been a fan of building out of rope. ok for single pitch but still not as easy to equalise as slings

What makes you say that?

Hooo - on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

> I have been looking at DMM torque nuts

If you're starting out, I definitely recommend getting a set of hexes. Torque nuts are great. Cheap, light and even a beginner can see when they're bomber. Cams take more experience to place and especially to judge how good a placement is. Get good at using passive gear before you start playing with cams and the experience you gain will stand you in good stead.
Kemics - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:

I personally love 120cm slings. I think they're very useful for threads, belays and as long runners on meandering routes (I take 4 with me on long stuff). 1 x 240cm is handy too. Not essential but I had one as part of my first rack and definitely got a lot of use from it. (lots of slinging boulders for belays)

I'm guessing you're going to rack those 5 x 60cm slings as slingdraws? Giving you a total of 11 draws. 5 of which you can extend if necessary?

http://www.climbing.com/skill/the-alpine-quickdraw/

I think your list is pretty much spot on and I wouldnt make any changes. I'd immediately look to double on wires 1-6 asap but 11 wires and 5 cams should see you fine for a while.

Hexes are crap :P stick with the cams.

Also, someone mentioned Dicks Climbing shop higher up the thread. If you're planning on buying the rack in one go. Give him a call and he'd probably be willing to cut a deal :) (plus his prices are pretty competitive in the first place now)

GridNorth - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to Kemics:

I wouldn't dismiss Hexes altogether. They are very handy for rigging abseils and belays at Pembroke but I would be reluctant to carry them on a route. I do have some Torque nuts which I quite like and prefer the smaller ones to large wedges. The largest wedge shaped nut I carry is a Rock 10.
Kemics - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to GridNorth:

I have a set of torque nuts too but they almost exclusively sit in gear box unused :)

For 50 quid (cost of torque nuts) you can get 2 cams which are way more versitle, lighter and will have so many more placements on Cornish granite.

With a limited budget I'd put hexes right at the bottom of any kit shopping list :)
TK52 - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:
I'd say scrap the lower size cams and go for sizes 1,2,3 and 4. Small cams are handy on the harder routes but if you're starting to lead it's way more reassuring to whack a bigger cam in than fiddle with little ones! I'd also say at least 6 locking crabs - you want at least three for anchors in Cornwall, 1 for your belay device and at least one for attaching yourself to anchors. A boa is handy as it will take 2 clove hitches safely - 1 HMS Boa, 3 x HMS and 2 x D-shaped crabs.
I've got a set of hexs/torque nuts but don't seem to use them that often - did when I started but a nut usually fits in a similar place to the torque nut. Depends on your budget.
2 x 120cm slings at least and defo a 240 if not 2.
Get a bug or similar belay device and definitely prussik cord for abseils! Chat to Martin about widths of prussik cord - it depends on the size of your rope :)
Post edited at 17:26
Ban1 - on 27 Jan 2014
In reply to TK52:

I already had this discussion with a much more experienced climber than me so why would you have 2X 240 slings
andrewmcleod - on 28 Jan 2014
In reply to Ban1:
I have a 400cm sling :P have sometimes found a 240cm too short for a widely-spaced three-point belay! But then I do like to have ALL the gear... :)

(and often end up doing all the leading and so often prefer anchors with slings)
Post edited at 18:11
TK52 - on 28 Jan 2014
In reply to Ban1:

For threads. 120s often come short and make way more than a 60 degree angle on each individual angle. They give more versatility than 120s. Also for those huge boulders you come across on large ledges at the top of the crag! I'm not saying my way is right, I just always carry them on the back of my harness for setting up. Don't ted to use the rope to set up as you never know how much you will have to set up with on the longer routes. Again, my way of climbing - doesn't have to be everyone else's.
Ban1 - on 28 Jan 2014
In reply to andrewmcleod:

400CM SLING! wow im not saying I don't like your reasoning but how big is it racked or do you just triple it over your head
andrewmcleod - on 29 Jan 2014
In reply to Ban1:
It's only 8mm so isn't much bigger than the 11mm 240cm slings I have, all of which are on screwgate krabs (yes, I know this is the 'numpty' way :P ). And then it just sits on the back of my harness. I'm not generally a fan of the slings-over-the-shoulder, apart from when collecting someone else's gear, but maybe I will see reason once I have to place a sling one-armed.

I'd rather all the gear, even if I only have little/no idea, and then start taking less as my amount of 'idea' increases. It's not like I climb hard enough (definitely not on trad!) for weight to be a significant issue!
Post edited at 11:04
The Ivanator - on 29 Jan 2014
In reply to Finlay.george:
> 4-locking Caribbeans

Don't forget to load your iPod with plenty of da reggae sounds too.
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Ban1 - on 29 Jan 2014
In reply to andrewmcleod:

8mm whats that made from? I might pick one up to see how it goes
Paul Hy - on 30 Jan 2014
In reply to Ban1:

Dyneema see here: http://www.joe-brown.com/outdoor-equipment/dmm_8mm_dyneema_sling_400cm

i've just bought a sling from Needle Sports which are fantastic for doing threads, not so good over spikes thou! see here: http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rock-Climbing-Equipment/Slings-Extenders/Slings/Aramid-Cord-Sl... i bought a 120cm one
Ban1 - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to Paul Hy:

im not a fan of using dyneema for anchor building because of the strength issue when a knot is tied but there great for extending quickdraws
andrewmcleod - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to Ban1:

It is true that the strength is reduced by about 50%, but this just means the strength goes from 'crazy strong' to 'still pretty damn strong'. I think slings are more than twice the strength of typical 6/7mm accessory cord, so I am not that worried.
Ban1 - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to andrewmcleod:

well were kind of pushing another thread here but an 8mm dyneema sling is approx 22kn but when tied its more like 10kn

a 8mm nylon cord is approx 17kn but when tied its not effected the same way.

climbwhenready - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to Ban1:

> a 8mm nylon cord is approx 17kn but when tied its not effected the same way.

Are you sure?
Ban1 - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

many brands will differ but I say around 13kn to 17kn for 8mm
The Ivanator - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Ban1:
Hey wid all dis technical talk you is really losing the Calypso vibe. Have dey locked those Caribbeans away for good?
Post edited at 00:14
climbwhenready - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Ban1:

> many brands will differ but I say around 13kn to 17kn for 8mm

A knot decreases that though, similar to webbing?

Anyway, 10kN is a lot for the belay.
Ban1 - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

Yeah 10kn should be plenty.
Anyways when they test breaking strain they don't test the slings/cords in a 3 point anchor situation so I could be wrong but by doubling up on strand you would increase strength to the system.

Alas this is the shit we talk about when it's too wet to climb
andrewmcleod - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to Ban1:

Any knot will weaken any sling/cord/rope etc, just possibly more in slings?

But 8mm dyneema is massively less bulky than 8mm cord, so not really a fair comparison. Would anyone seriously use a 4m cordalette in 8mm? :P

needvert on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to andrewmcleod:

> But 8mm dyneema is massively less bulky than 8mm cord, so not really a fair comparison. Would anyone seriously use a 4m cordalette in 8mm? :P

I notice my 10mm 400m dyneema sling is about 15g/m, which would indeed be 4-5mm. I suspect the most commonly advocated nylon cordelette diameter is 7mm, which would be over twice the weight when dry.
(Bluewater cord...5mm=16.5g/m, 7mm=32.9g/m)

It's difficult to know how much strength reduction you'll get, if you do the common 3 piece cordelette thing you'll end up with a big overhand with 6 strands running through it. The test results you see tend to be for a 1-2 strands of material so don't really apply.


RE: Screw gates, while I have and a few, but I don't think you need more than 1-3 (1-2 if you don't use guide mode). Screw gates are heavy, I'd get the lightest you can (Petzl Attache 3Ds & WC Neons perhaps.)

Ciderslider - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Otis:

> Ps you might consider a few shorter quick draws too. They can be useful low down on routes to cut down fall distances slightly if you ping off close to the ground. A marginal benefit, but definitely a psychological boost at times!

+1 most definitely !

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