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For reasons neither interesting or important, in the next couple of months we are going to find ourselves in the position of having a spare house, which we don't really want to sell at the moment.
Can anyone who rents out a property offer any advice on being a landlord. Want to do things properly, it is a fairly standard two bed terrace in a decent area and we will be living fairly close by.
Can anyone who rents out a property offer any advice on being a landlord. Want to do things properly, it is a fairly standard two bed terrace in a decent area and we will be living fairly close by.
In reply to The New NickB:
Get a decent letting agent. A good one will find tenants, credit check, prepare contracts take deposit, do an inventory, ensure you're legal (gas certificates etc) , do regular inspections, and sort any issues out on your behalf. A good one is well worth the money.
Get a decent letting agent. A good one will find tenants, credit check, prepare contracts take deposit, do an inventory, ensure you're legal (gas certificates etc) , do regular inspections, and sort any issues out on your behalf. A good one is well worth the money.
In reply to The New NickB:
I find the best thing to do is get some tenants in and then ignore them as much as possible.
I find the best thing to do is get some tenants in and then ignore them as much as possible.
In reply to The New NickB:
My advice from experience would be to ask for 3 months deposit and make sure you do some proper background checks on them, including confirming their place of work and avoid anyone on housing benefit. That should keep it "relatively" stress free.
Good luck
My advice from experience would be to ask for 3 months deposit and make sure you do some proper background checks on them, including confirming their place of work and avoid anyone on housing benefit. That should keep it "relatively" stress free.
Good luck
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
Holy Carp! Three months?! That would be just shy of £3k in the house we are currently in! One month and a bit seems pretty standard in the world I live in.
> My advice from experience would be to ask for 3 months deposit
Holy Carp! Three months?! That would be just shy of £3k in the house we are currently in! One month and a bit seems pretty standard in the world I live in.
In reply to The New NickB:
Have the correct insurance for a start.
Gas safety check.
EPC rating. (has to be at least E by a certain date that I cannot remember).
A legal contract (some estate agents put stupid clauses in that would not stand up to scrutiny in court).
Try and ensure you have knowledge of their financial situation - I also give the estimated cost of what it would cost a month to live there so the tenants know if they can actually afford it!
An inventory.
If you want a generic contract send me an email and I will see what I can do.
Use someone like http://www.depositprotection.com/help/browse#Q1 for the deposit (which has to be paid in full, it cannot be paid in installments as that leaves you open to legal action and a big fine).
If you can tile the kitchen and bathrooms so you don't have to paint everytime you have a new tenant.
Keep the rent you get to rememdy wear and tear items at the end of the tenancy. (Carpets, painting etc).
I just had a tenant move out after two and half years of renting it. The house has been painted and cleaned, with carpet goign down for new tenants as an example.
Oh go and check on it every three to six months!
Have the correct insurance for a start.
Gas safety check.
EPC rating. (has to be at least E by a certain date that I cannot remember).
A legal contract (some estate agents put stupid clauses in that would not stand up to scrutiny in court).
Try and ensure you have knowledge of their financial situation - I also give the estimated cost of what it would cost a month to live there so the tenants know if they can actually afford it!
An inventory.
If you want a generic contract send me an email and I will see what I can do.
Use someone like http://www.depositprotection.com/help/browse#Q1 for the deposit (which has to be paid in full, it cannot be paid in installments as that leaves you open to legal action and a big fine).
If you can tile the kitchen and bathrooms so you don't have to paint everytime you have a new tenant.
Keep the rent you get to rememdy wear and tear items at the end of the tenancy. (Carpets, painting etc).
I just had a tenant move out after two and half years of renting it. The house has been painted and cleaned, with carpet goign down for new tenants as an example.
Oh go and check on it every three to six months!
In reply to The New NickB:
If the house is very close to you, then you can manage yourself if you want the highest cash return. However, I now swear by agent managing as it is a damn sight less faff for me. 'Want us to sort out your gas safety certificate?' 'Yes go do it letting agent minions!'. But seriously, for the 10% (well that's what I am charged) fee, it's worth getting your property agent managed.
If the house is very close to you, then you can manage yourself if you want the highest cash return. However, I now swear by agent managing as it is a damn sight less faff for me. 'Want us to sort out your gas safety certificate?' 'Yes go do it letting agent minions!'. But seriously, for the 10% (well that's what I am charged) fee, it's worth getting your property agent managed.
In reply to The New NickB: check you mortgage provider, assuming you have one, allows you to rent the property.
In reply to The New NickB: I wouldn't get it managed. We got an agent to find a tennant for a one off fee then went on our own. Saved a lot of money.
The gas and energy certificates are easy to organise. Many tradesmen take the mick on quotes if they know it's managed.
The gas and energy certificates are easy to organise. Many tradesmen take the mick on quotes if they know it's managed.
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
Nice bit of bigotry there in your not taking anyone on housing benefit.
Nice bit of bigotry there in your not taking anyone on housing benefit.
In reply to The New NickB: Remember that tenants are people too!
Oh, and if you do use an Agent, avoid Martin & Co like the plague, even after the Ombudsman's Report called them "Unprofessional, unsatisfactory & confused" they still refused to pay out the compensation awarded against them until the Ombudsman took further action against them.
Oh, and if you do use an Agent, avoid Martin & Co like the plague, even after the Ombudsman's Report called them "Unprofessional, unsatisfactory & confused" they still refused to pay out the compensation awarded against them until the Ombudsman took further action against them.
In reply to The New NickB:
don't pay an agent to use DPS for you to register deposit, this is very easy to do yourself online so save a bit of cash.
worth spending some cash though on proper contract - I'm in same situation as you and previously used agent supplied contract, but found out in practice it was crap (i.e. when tenant repeatedly failed to pay, agent advice was 'write them a letter'. Next time will have a clause with instant fine, followed by daily interest otherwise there is little incentive to pay on time for many). so next time will pay a solicitor a few hundred to get a better one, that includes cover for landlord in event of rent non-payment (the biggest on going PITA for any landlord). house is biggest asset you have worth KKKs so a few hundred is worthwhile.
again, don't pay an agent to do the inventory, this is easily done by yourself to save cash, various templates on line.
reference checks: again, don't trust the agents here, I've been given crap tenants that simply couldn't afford to pay the rent after supposed back ground checks (turns out there mum had written a nice letter). next time I'll be asking for physical payslips/job contracts/bank statements to show they have sufficient cash to pay. and possibly also using one of the online landlord zones to do some credit checks. Again, house is biggest asset you have so worth a comparatively small amount of money to protect yourself against the worst possible scenarios.
the theme you may notice here is don't use the agent for anything other than finding the tenant(unless you wan't them to manage building maintenance issues). so if you can find a tenant yourself, through a mate or ad in the paper, you save yourself up to a grand on agents finders fee.
up to you whether you tell the mortgage company. if you don't (as buy to let mortgages are usually far higher) then make sure you have several months mortgage saved up in case one tenant doesn't pay, you have trouble kicking them out and they cause damage etc leaving you with several months no rent but a mortgage still to pay.
in terms of deposit amounts, if it's a desirable house/area that you fill easily, go for 2 months deposit. just safeguards you that little bit more in the event of bad tenant.
goes without saying, if you do the maintenance yourself, do it properly and fairly to the tenant, respond to requests within 24 hrs, i.e. give the service you would expect as a tenant.
don't pay an agent to use DPS for you to register deposit, this is very easy to do yourself online so save a bit of cash.
worth spending some cash though on proper contract - I'm in same situation as you and previously used agent supplied contract, but found out in practice it was crap (i.e. when tenant repeatedly failed to pay, agent advice was 'write them a letter'. Next time will have a clause with instant fine, followed by daily interest otherwise there is little incentive to pay on time for many). so next time will pay a solicitor a few hundred to get a better one, that includes cover for landlord in event of rent non-payment (the biggest on going PITA for any landlord). house is biggest asset you have worth KKKs so a few hundred is worthwhile.
again, don't pay an agent to do the inventory, this is easily done by yourself to save cash, various templates on line.
reference checks: again, don't trust the agents here, I've been given crap tenants that simply couldn't afford to pay the rent after supposed back ground checks (turns out there mum had written a nice letter). next time I'll be asking for physical payslips/job contracts/bank statements to show they have sufficient cash to pay. and possibly also using one of the online landlord zones to do some credit checks. Again, house is biggest asset you have so worth a comparatively small amount of money to protect yourself against the worst possible scenarios.
the theme you may notice here is don't use the agent for anything other than finding the tenant(unless you wan't them to manage building maintenance issues). so if you can find a tenant yourself, through a mate or ad in the paper, you save yourself up to a grand on agents finders fee.
up to you whether you tell the mortgage company. if you don't (as buy to let mortgages are usually far higher) then make sure you have several months mortgage saved up in case one tenant doesn't pay, you have trouble kicking them out and they cause damage etc leaving you with several months no rent but a mortgage still to pay.
in terms of deposit amounts, if it's a desirable house/area that you fill easily, go for 2 months deposit. just safeguards you that little bit more in the event of bad tenant.
goes without saying, if you do the maintenance yourself, do it properly and fairly to the tenant, respond to requests within 24 hrs, i.e. give the service you would expect as a tenant.
In reply to The New NickB:
I rented out my place to a friend of a friend, did everything informally and it worked out great. Also, my mum used an agent at first and then when it became clear that they provided absolutely nothing useful while taking their cut, sacked them off and just went DIY.
Personally I would much prefer to spend some time finding someone I trust to rent the place (avoiding the need to pay for someone to do credit checks etc) than have anything to do with anyone whose express intention is to take my money for as little work as possible.
All an agent will do is lie to you and the tenant and get in the way when anything needs doing. And syphon off your money.
I rented out my place to a friend of a friend, did everything informally and it worked out great. Also, my mum used an agent at first and then when it became clear that they provided absolutely nothing useful while taking their cut, sacked them off and just went DIY.
Personally I would much prefer to spend some time finding someone I trust to rent the place (avoiding the need to pay for someone to do credit checks etc) than have anything to do with anyone whose express intention is to take my money for as little work as possible.
All an agent will do is lie to you and the tenant and get in the way when anything needs doing. And syphon off your money.
In reply to JayPee630:
and i'm telling you that isn't, unless putting your income at risk is bigoted.
and i'm telling you that isn't, unless putting your income at risk is bigoted.
In reply to The New NickB:
Read about the law. It's better to find out what is what, in advance, rather than afterwards.
You must put their deposit in a deposit protection scheme, and if they then go and leave you no details of how to contact them, it can be a bit of a faff to get the money back out - you have to provide evidence of why you are entitled to keep it.
So - get them to sign an agreement about the state of the house when they move in, with photos and an inventory.
All soft furnishings must be fire retardant.
Gas and electricity checks must be done (gas every year).
If you want them to leave, this must be done in the right way. You can't just change the locks. There is a lot of advice about this online, but it can take 6 months to legally get someone out who just chooses to not pay their rent.
Make sure that you arrange regular visits, just to make sure that everything is going well.
Check the conditions of your mortgage and buildings insurance - you may need to change both in order to let the house out, and the insurance will be invalid if you don't tell everyone what you are doing.
You will need to fill out a tax return every year, so check what you can claim and keep all receipts.
Problems have to be fixed quickly. You might be happy to spend 6 months decorating a room in your own home, but this doesn't work in a rented house. You need spare cash and workmen to be able to instantly fix boilers, fridges, leaks etc.
Make it clear in the contract who will pay the council tax, contents insurance, water rates, utilities bills etc. There are lots of good examples online.
Be prepared for changes in interest rates - they are bound to go up soon.
Having said all that, you can end up providing someone with a lovely home and can benefit financially too!
Read about the law. It's better to find out what is what, in advance, rather than afterwards.
You must put their deposit in a deposit protection scheme, and if they then go and leave you no details of how to contact them, it can be a bit of a faff to get the money back out - you have to provide evidence of why you are entitled to keep it.
So - get them to sign an agreement about the state of the house when they move in, with photos and an inventory.
All soft furnishings must be fire retardant.
Gas and electricity checks must be done (gas every year).
If you want them to leave, this must be done in the right way. You can't just change the locks. There is a lot of advice about this online, but it can take 6 months to legally get someone out who just chooses to not pay their rent.
Make sure that you arrange regular visits, just to make sure that everything is going well.
Check the conditions of your mortgage and buildings insurance - you may need to change both in order to let the house out, and the insurance will be invalid if you don't tell everyone what you are doing.
You will need to fill out a tax return every year, so check what you can claim and keep all receipts.
Problems have to be fixed quickly. You might be happy to spend 6 months decorating a room in your own home, but this doesn't work in a rented house. You need spare cash and workmen to be able to instantly fix boilers, fridges, leaks etc.
Make it clear in the contract who will pay the council tax, contents insurance, water rates, utilities bills etc. There are lots of good examples online.
Be prepared for changes in interest rates - they are bound to go up soon.
Having said all that, you can end up providing someone with a lovely home and can benefit financially too!
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
FFS, if you warn against a whole category of people it's bigotted, whatever personal justification you use for it. Substitute black, jewish, or anything else for that and see how it reads.
FFS, if you warn against a whole category of people it's bigotted, whatever personal justification you use for it. Substitute black, jewish, or anything else for that and see how it reads.
In reply to JayPee630:
You don't like the advice because if you slip in the word black/jewish it will sound offensive?
I can only assume you are being such a d1ck because you have not heard of universal credit and the changes to housing benefit.
http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tenancies/rent-arrears-to-go-up-%C2%A3180-un...
I changed the word "tenant" to Jewish when i read the atricle and you're absolutely right...it did sound really racist.
You don't like the advice because if you slip in the word black/jewish it will sound offensive?
I can only assume you are being such a d1ck because you have not heard of universal credit and the changes to housing benefit.
http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tenancies/rent-arrears-to-go-up-%C2%A3180-un...
I changed the word "tenant" to Jewish when i read the atricle and you're absolutely right...it did sound really racist.
In reply to JayPee630:
JayPee is correct here - it's bigoted.
In particular, the original wording -- avoiding the person (because of housing benefit) -- betrays this as. It implies it is the person and not the housing benefit that you have a problem with. Compare with the days of no dogs, no blacks, no Irish.
JayPee is correct here - it's bigoted.
In particular, the original wording -- avoiding the person (because of housing benefit) -- betrays this as. It implies it is the person and not the housing benefit that you have a problem with. Compare with the days of no dogs, no blacks, no Irish.
In reply to JayPee630:
Having lived next door to a housing agency house for a few years, I'd agree with Bjartur i Sumarhus. Out of the 4 tennants that lived there, 2 sets weren't there for very long, one set were a genuinely nice family and I was actually sorry to see them go when they moved somewhere bigger.
The last lot, however, were well known to the local police, the Residents Association were warned about them, he'd done time for burglary and handling, she was an alcoholic drug addict who I once found unconsious outside my front door next to rocks of crack cocaine, the place got trashed and stank and I got fed up with various police officers knocking on my door to see if I knew where they were - and that's just the summary.
In reply to the OP, I'm currently renting out my old house, coincidentally to a mate (so no agent), but still have it done up legally. You'll need to put the deposit with one of the government recognised schemes, have all the relevant contracts, safety certificates, buildings insurance, permission from mortgage lender (mine allows me to let for 2 years, but added 1.5% to the rate!), file tax returns on the rental income and, if you're still got it in 3 years, pay capital gains tax on the sale.
> Nice bit of bigotry there in your not taking anyone on housing benefit.
Having lived next door to a housing agency house for a few years, I'd agree with Bjartur i Sumarhus. Out of the 4 tennants that lived there, 2 sets weren't there for very long, one set were a genuinely nice family and I was actually sorry to see them go when they moved somewhere bigger.
The last lot, however, were well known to the local police, the Residents Association were warned about them, he'd done time for burglary and handling, she was an alcoholic drug addict who I once found unconsious outside my front door next to rocks of crack cocaine, the place got trashed and stank and I got fed up with various police officers knocking on my door to see if I knew where they were - and that's just the summary.
In reply to the OP, I'm currently renting out my old house, coincidentally to a mate (so no agent), but still have it done up legally. You'll need to put the deposit with one of the government recognised schemes, have all the relevant contracts, safety certificates, buildings insurance, permission from mortgage lender (mine allows me to let for 2 years, but added 1.5% to the rate!), file tax returns on the rental income and, if you're still got it in 3 years, pay capital gains tax on the sale.
In reply to d508934:
I'd agree with not using an agent - the nice chap from Romans couldn't look me in the eye when he sheepishly admitted I wouldn't see very much of the first month's rent, by the time they'd deducted all the fees, some of which were astronomical.
I'd agree with not using an agent - the nice chap from Romans couldn't look me in the eye when he sheepishly admitted I wouldn't see very much of the first month's rent, by the time they'd deducted all the fees, some of which were astronomical.
In reply to The New NickB:
You have two choices - do it yourself or get an agent.
If agent then you can just get them to let it and then self-manage, or you can get them to do the whole thing.
I would strongly recommend getting a decent agent if you are going to be doing this for the first time, unless you fancy a fair amount of work. A decent agent will have a pile of trademen at their beck and call, will know who to ring when the boiler blows up at 1am, will know the legal situation inside out, and will be able to give you advice on what you need to do at any stage. Most charge 10% of rental.
If you do it yourself you need to accept the risk that goes with that. Yes, it is possible to do it yourself, and if it all goes well then all will be fine, but get an irritating tenant (about 50% in our experience) then the agent takes the heat off you.
Make sure you get Landlord's insurance - Homelet, who we use, costs about £70 a year so that if tenant burns themselves on a gas ring you are covered when they sue you. You can pay insurance for lost earnings due to the property being empty, but frankly we investigated it and its a fortune.
If you tell the mortgage company they may not move you onto BTL. Many - especially if you say that you are intending to sell in the future and are only doing this short term - will simply give you a "consent to let" and charge £50-£100 for it, but keep you on the same mortgage.
You have two choices - do it yourself or get an agent.
If agent then you can just get them to let it and then self-manage, or you can get them to do the whole thing.
I would strongly recommend getting a decent agent if you are going to be doing this for the first time, unless you fancy a fair amount of work. A decent agent will have a pile of trademen at their beck and call, will know who to ring when the boiler blows up at 1am, will know the legal situation inside out, and will be able to give you advice on what you need to do at any stage. Most charge 10% of rental.
If you do it yourself you need to accept the risk that goes with that. Yes, it is possible to do it yourself, and if it all goes well then all will be fine, but get an irritating tenant (about 50% in our experience) then the agent takes the heat off you.
Make sure you get Landlord's insurance - Homelet, who we use, costs about £70 a year so that if tenant burns themselves on a gas ring you are covered when they sue you. You can pay insurance for lost earnings due to the property being empty, but frankly we investigated it and its a fortune.
If you tell the mortgage company they may not move you onto BTL. Many - especially if you say that you are intending to sell in the future and are only doing this short term - will simply give you a "consent to let" and charge £50-£100 for it, but keep you on the same mortgage.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
"Having lived next door to a housing agency house for a few years, I'd agree with Bjartur i Sumarhus. Out of the 4 tennants that lived there..."
This sort of stuff exemplifies to problem - 4 sets of tennants one of which was a problem. I could counter that I lived next door to a rented house which over 10 years had 4 sets of tennants, some on HB some working and was driven out of my house by the last lot due to problems with noise and drug use and those ones weren't on housing benefit, they were working.
If you extrapolate from the housing benefit to behaviour in this way you are exhibiting bigotry. Choosing to base this on 1 in 4 problem from a sample of 4 (especially when 1 sample was a favorable experience) further undermines it.
Some tenants will be arseholes and trouble. Some will pay their rent and some won't. To correlate bad tenants with housing benefit without compelling evidence is bigotry.
If there is a problem with universal credit it is a problem with universal credit not with the tenants.
"Having lived next door to a housing agency house for a few years, I'd agree with Bjartur i Sumarhus. Out of the 4 tennants that lived there..."
This sort of stuff exemplifies to problem - 4 sets of tennants one of which was a problem. I could counter that I lived next door to a rented house which over 10 years had 4 sets of tennants, some on HB some working and was driven out of my house by the last lot due to problems with noise and drug use and those ones weren't on housing benefit, they were working.
If you extrapolate from the housing benefit to behaviour in this way you are exhibiting bigotry. Choosing to base this on 1 in 4 problem from a sample of 4 (especially when 1 sample was a favorable experience) further undermines it.
Some tenants will be arseholes and trouble. Some will pay their rent and some won't. To correlate bad tenants with housing benefit without compelling evidence is bigotry.
If there is a problem with universal credit it is a problem with universal credit not with the tenants.
In reply to duchessofmalfi:
Fine, anyone with a property to rent that wants to avoid potential problems with arrears would understand what I meant.
You two can find whatever message you like. If bigot is it, then glad to have helped.
Fine, anyone with a property to rent that wants to avoid potential problems with arrears would understand what I meant.
You two can find whatever message you like. If bigot is it, then glad to have helped.
In reply to John_Hat:
hadn't heard of that but sounds useful - what if after a few years you still can't sell/don't want to sell but keep letting? how contractual does the agreement get in your experience?
> If you tell the mortgage company they may not move you onto BTL. Many - especially if you say that you are intending to sell in the future and are only doing this short term - will simply give you a "consent to let" and charge £50-£100 for it, but keep you on the same mortgage.
hadn't heard of that but sounds useful - what if after a few years you still can't sell/don't want to sell but keep letting? how contractual does the agreement get in your experience?
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
To be fair to you UC does appear to be your problem and LBS does seem to have a bigger problem with the tenants themselves. UC may never see the light of day (nationally) in its present form and it has all the hallmarks of a disaster in the wings.
However, I think it is a bit much to write off a huge swath of the population and I would feel extremely unease posting this myself:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/House_to_rent_no_dss.jpg
To be fair to you UC does appear to be your problem and LBS does seem to have a bigger problem with the tenants themselves. UC may never see the light of day (nationally) in its present form and it has all the hallmarks of a disaster in the wings.
However, I think it is a bit much to write off a huge swath of the population and I would feel extremely unease posting this myself:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/House_to_rent_no_dss.jpg
In reply to John_Hat:
From the other side of the coin, my flat used to be 'fully managed' by Martin & Co, who made it very clear they were only interested in problems during normal office hours (and then could take days to even get quotes, let alone fix a minor problem). They never used the same tradesman twice (the tradesmen told me when they came that Martin & Co treated them like sh*t and didn't pay their bills). Thankfully my Landlord sacked them and now I deal direct with him, problems are sorted straight away and no bother.
> I would strongly recommend getting a decent agent if you are going to be doing this for the first time, unless you fancy a fair amount of work. A decent agent will have a pile of trademen at their beck and call, will know who to ring when the boiler blows up at 1am, will know the legal situation inside out, and will be able to give you advice on what you need to do at any stage. Most charge 10% of rental.
From the other side of the coin, my flat used to be 'fully managed' by Martin & Co, who made it very clear they were only interested in problems during normal office hours (and then could take days to even get quotes, let alone fix a minor problem). They never used the same tradesman twice (the tradesmen told me when they came that Martin & Co treated them like sh*t and didn't pay their bills). Thankfully my Landlord sacked them and now I deal direct with him, problems are sorted straight away and no bother.
In reply to duchessofmalfi:
Appreciate the recognition. In the context of the original question, my answer had good intentions even if the wording was clunky and the advice (whilst sound IMO) could be deemed unpalatable.
Appreciate the recognition. In the context of the original question, my answer had good intentions even if the wording was clunky and the advice (whilst sound IMO) could be deemed unpalatable.
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
UC is IDS's brainchild - you can write to him here about it:
caxtonhouse.clerkpru <at> dwp.gsi.gov.uk
Don't feel shy about expressing your opinions to him.
UC is IDS's brainchild - you can write to him here about it:
caxtonhouse.clerkpru <at> dwp.gsi.gov.uk
Don't feel shy about expressing your opinions to him.
In reply to John_Hat:
I just don't get this. I own a house... I know what to do if a boiler breaks down. Paying 10 % for an agent to basically act as a middle man between me and a tradesman seems mad. If you've any sense you'll check quotes before any work gets done anyway so what exactly is the agent doing?
> I would strongly recommend getting a decent agent if you are going to be doing this for the first time, unless you fancy a fair amount of work. A decent agent will have a pile of trademen at their beck and call, will know who to ring when the boiler blows up at 1am, will know the legal situation inside out, and will be able to give you advice on what you need to do at any stage. Most charge 10% of rental.
> If you do it yourself you need to accept the risk that goes with that. Yes, it is possible to do it yourself, and if it all goes well then all will be fine, but get an irritating tenant (about 50% in our experience) then the agent takes the heat off you.
I just don't get this. I own a house... I know what to do if a boiler breaks down. Paying 10 % for an agent to basically act as a middle man between me and a tradesman seems mad. If you've any sense you'll check quotes before any work gets done anyway so what exactly is the agent doing?
In reply to Papillon:
Dealing with ringing people, getting them to quote, ringing them again when they don't turn up, chasing them for the quote, and all whilst you are doing your day job or on holiday or out at dinner with your wife for your anniversary.
> so what exactly is the agent doing?
Dealing with ringing people, getting them to quote, ringing them again when they don't turn up, chasing them for the quote, and all whilst you are doing your day job or on holiday or out at dinner with your wife for your anniversary.
In reply to Papillon:
Essentially, not only are you paying a fee for the agent to find and vet potential tenants you are paying not to have to deal with said tenants directly. Having worked as an estate agent in a former life you will be amazed at how many calls you get from some tenants. Most people assume as landlord you will only be contacted very rarely in an emergency but the reality is that some tenants see no problem waking you up at 7am on Sunday morning wanting to talk to you about changing the colour of the lampshade in the bedroom or is convinced that the gas meter is broken as they have just received a large bill. You are paying for a bit of peace and quiet!
Essentially, not only are you paying a fee for the agent to find and vet potential tenants you are paying not to have to deal with said tenants directly. Having worked as an estate agent in a former life you will be amazed at how many calls you get from some tenants. Most people assume as landlord you will only be contacted very rarely in an emergency but the reality is that some tenants see no problem waking you up at 7am on Sunday morning wanting to talk to you about changing the colour of the lampshade in the bedroom or is convinced that the gas meter is broken as they have just received a large bill. You are paying for a bit of peace and quiet!
In reply to John_Hat:
If someone has lived in an area for a while (which I think the OP has), it is likely that they will know some decent tradesmen in the area, I know I do. One phone call does it.
As a tenant I never dealt with an agency that was open out of office hours.
So let's assume the property is in very bad shape when you rent it out (@600pcm), you need a tradesman one a month. That's £60 a month for a couple of phone calls. The reality is more like four jobs a year so triple tha.
> Dealing with ringing people, getting them to quote, ringing them again when they don't turn up, chasing them for the quote, and all whilst you are doing your day job or on holiday or out at dinner with your wife for your anniversary.
If someone has lived in an area for a while (which I think the OP has), it is likely that they will know some decent tradesmen in the area, I know I do. One phone call does it.
As a tenant I never dealt with an agency that was open out of office hours.
So let's assume the property is in very bad shape when you rent it out (@600pcm), you need a tradesman one a month. That's £60 a month for a couple of phone calls. The reality is more like four jobs a year so triple tha.
In reply to The New NickB:
My advice is find some good tenants and treat them right as if you have good tenants it makes managing the whole thing so much less of a pain in the bum.
I can recommend https://www.openrent.co.uk/ as a good place to advertise and they'll do various extra things like contracts if you want them to.
My advice is find some good tenants and treat them right as if you have good tenants it makes managing the whole thing so much less of a pain in the bum.
I can recommend https://www.openrent.co.uk/ as a good place to advertise and they'll do various extra things like contracts if you want them to.
In reply to Cú Chullain: I must have been very lucky with tenants! (that's in jest, I'm sure the reality is most tenants are normal people)
In reply to duchessofmalfi:
I think I made it fairly clear I had a problem with 1 specific set of tennants.
However, once bitten, twice shy and all that - in the end, it's my personal property and I'll rent it to who I feel comfortable with. I don't want/can't afford to risk not getting the rent paid, a legal battle to evict someone and/or a huge bill to sort a wrecked place out once they've left.
> LBS does seem to have a bigger problem with the tenants themselves.
I think I made it fairly clear I had a problem with 1 specific set of tennants.
However, once bitten, twice shy and all that - in the end, it's my personal property and I'll rent it to who I feel comfortable with. I don't want/can't afford to risk not getting the rent paid, a legal battle to evict someone and/or a huge bill to sort a wrecked place out once they've left.
In reply to MeMeMe:
+1
> My advice is find some good tenants and treat them right as if you have good tenants it makes managing the whole thing so much less of a pain in the bum.
+1
In reply to Papillon:
Quite a few agencies have 24hr emergency contact numbers these days.
You are also assuming that most tenants are normal, decent people who look after their homes. There is a sizable minority who despite having glowing references live like animals and treat your property like shit. They are the ones who after yet another house party call you up again to get the toilet fixed or to mend the hole in the plasterboard or to replace the curtains that have been pulled down again. Does not matter how in the shape the property was when you let it out, some tenants who slip through the vetting process will keep you busy every month before invariably trying to run off without paying their last months rent, telling you to keep the deposit instead despite the fact that barely covers half the damage they have done.
Quite a few agencies have 24hr emergency contact numbers these days.
You are also assuming that most tenants are normal, decent people who look after their homes. There is a sizable minority who despite having glowing references live like animals and treat your property like shit. They are the ones who after yet another house party call you up again to get the toilet fixed or to mend the hole in the plasterboard or to replace the curtains that have been pulled down again. Does not matter how in the shape the property was when you let it out, some tenants who slip through the vetting process will keep you busy every month before invariably trying to run off without paying their last months rent, telling you to keep the deposit instead despite the fact that barely covers half the damage they have done.
In reply to Cú Chullain:
An agent will not prevent or rectify any of that. You will end up paying more to rectify the problems than if you sorted it out yourself, you don't know the tradesmen involved and someone unscrupulous will work out you are willing to write blank cheque after blank cheque, for poor work.
It's my property I am liable for, I don't want to stay remote from it.
> They are the ones who after yet another house party call you up again to get the toilet fixed or to mend the hole in the plasterboard or to replace the curtains that have been pulled down again. Does not matter how in the shape the property was when you let it out, some tenants who slip through the vetting process will keep you busy every month before invariably trying to run off without paying their last months rent, telling you to keep the deposit instead despite the fact that barely covers half the damage they have done.
An agent will not prevent or rectify any of that. You will end up paying more to rectify the problems than if you sorted it out yourself, you don't know the tradesmen involved and someone unscrupulous will work out you are willing to write blank cheque after blank cheque, for poor work.
It's my property I am liable for, I don't want to stay remote from it.
Post edited at 16:22
In reply to owlart:
Currently using Martin & Co, as we're away for six months. We have lovely tenants, who are about to be neighbours (they're renting ours whilst they buy / renovate just up the street. Not so sure about the letting agents, though - recently, the (cheap) shower bracket fell off the wall, and we were quoted 40 quid to replace, which we thought was steep but OK'd. The next bill showed that it cost A HUNDRED AND THIRTY POINDS, for which we've still to receive a proper explanation. It's the worst, but not the only example. We have, though, made it pretty clear that this and any other dubious behaviour is going to discussed, at some length and with all the regulatory bods that we can find, unless they stop taking the Mick.
Having a property managed should be giving us piece of mind, but the letting agents are causing us a great deal of stress.
Martin
> Remember that tenants are people too!
> Oh, and if you do use an Agent, avoid Martin & Co like the plague, even after the Ombudsman's Report called them "Unprofessional, unsatisfactory & confused" they still refused to pay out the compensation awarded against them until the Ombudsman took further action against them.
Currently using Martin & Co, as we're away for six months. We have lovely tenants, who are about to be neighbours (they're renting ours whilst they buy / renovate just up the street. Not so sure about the letting agents, though - recently, the (cheap) shower bracket fell off the wall, and we were quoted 40 quid to replace, which we thought was steep but OK'd. The next bill showed that it cost A HUNDRED AND THIRTY POINDS, for which we've still to receive a proper explanation. It's the worst, but not the only example. We have, though, made it pretty clear that this and any other dubious behaviour is going to discussed, at some length and with all the regulatory bods that we can find, unless they stop taking the Mick.
Having a property managed should be giving us piece of mind, but the letting agents are causing us a great deal of stress.
Martin
In reply to Cú Chullain:
A-men.
One of our neighbours in a professionally rented property no doubt passed his background check (either that or the landlord either doesn't care or wants to drive homeowners out of the street.) It hasn't stopped him from having visitors hauled out unconscious from drink and drunks into ambulances at 6pm, it hasn't stopped him from starting a chain of violence that has led to windows being smashed at the property by the other party, etc., etc. Then there are the several hundred fag buts piled up on the shared garden space, the unilaterally vandalism of the neighbouring farmers fence to improve the view, the visits from big burly men in suits with earpieces and the not-unreasonably probability that he's going to get locked up (again) leaving the property to sit empty for weeks without your knowledge.
> There is a sizable minority who despite having glowing references live like animals and treat your property like shit.
A-men.
One of our neighbours in a professionally rented property no doubt passed his background check (either that or the landlord either doesn't care or wants to drive homeowners out of the street.) It hasn't stopped him from having visitors hauled out unconscious from drink and drunks into ambulances at 6pm, it hasn't stopped him from starting a chain of violence that has led to windows being smashed at the property by the other party, etc., etc. Then there are the several hundred fag buts piled up on the shared garden space, the unilaterally vandalism of the neighbouring farmers fence to improve the view, the visits from big burly men in suits with earpieces and the not-unreasonably probability that he's going to get locked up (again) leaving the property to sit empty for weeks without your knowledge.
In reply to maisie:
My sister in law is having a similar experience with another well known agent. The hassle they've had sorting out ridiculous bills is far more than it would have cost to just get a decent recommended tradesman in.
> Having a property managed should be giving us piece of mind, but the letting agents are causing us a great deal of stress.
My sister in law is having a similar experience with another well known agent. The hassle they've had sorting out ridiculous bills is far more than it would have cost to just get a decent recommended tradesman in.
In reply to duchessofmalfi:
I have to say, I read it completely the opposite way - as avoiding the hassle of housing benefit payments and bureaucracy being involved, rather than because the tenants were likely to be more trouble.
> In particular, the original wording -- avoiding the person (because of housing benefit) -- betrays this as. It implies it is the person and not the housing benefit that you have a problem with. Compare with the days of no dogs, no blacks, no Irish.
I have to say, I read it completely the opposite way - as avoiding the hassle of housing benefit payments and bureaucracy being involved, rather than because the tenants were likely to be more trouble.
In reply to The New NickB:
Thanks all. I've got a low down on all the legal requirements and my LA does an approved landlord certification scheme, which I am investigating.
My inclination would be to go towards managing it myself, a) because I am close by, b) because I have plenty contacts for reliable tradesmen and don't mind doing small jobs myself, and c) my experience of letting agents hasn't been great.
I have quite a few friends who rent out property locally, so I will be talking to them as well.
It is a few months off yet, plenty time to decide on a plan of action.
Thanks all. I've got a low down on all the legal requirements and my LA does an approved landlord certification scheme, which I am investigating.
My inclination would be to go towards managing it myself, a) because I am close by, b) because I have plenty contacts for reliable tradesmen and don't mind doing small jobs myself, and c) my experience of letting agents hasn't been great.
I have quite a few friends who rent out property locally, so I will be talking to them as well.
It is a few months off yet, plenty time to decide on a plan of action.
In reply to JayPee630:
FFS - shakes head.......
E
> Nice bit of bigotry there in your not taking anyone on housing benefit.
FFS - shakes head.......
E
In reply to LastBoyScout:
Another vote here for avoiding housing benefit/dss tenants. It isn't bigotry, it's common sense to reduce the risk of non-payment and getting the house trashed, and short term occupancy or even squatting.
Sx
Sx
> (In reply to JayPee630)
>
> [...]
>
> Having lived next door to a housing agency house for a few years, I'd agree with Bjartur i Sumarhus. Out of the 4 tennants that lived there, 2 sets weren't there for very long, one set were a genuinely nice family and I was actually sorry to see them go when they moved somewhere bigger.
>
> The last lot, however, were well known to the local police, the Residents Association were warned about them, he'd done time for burglary and handling, she was an alcoholic drug addict who I once found unconsious outside my front door next to rocks of crack cocaine, the place got trashed and stank and I got fed up with various police officers knocking on my door to see if I knew where they were - and that's just the summary.
>
>
> In reply to the OP, I'm currently renting out my old house, coincidentally to a mate (so no agent), but still have it done up legally. You'll need to put the deposit with one of the government recognised schemes, have all the relevant contracts, safety certificates, buildings insurance, permission from mortgage lender (mine allows me to let for 2 years, but added 1.5% to the rate!), file tax returns on the rental income and, if you're still got it in 3 years, pay capital gains tax on the sale.
>
> [...]
>
> Having lived next door to a housing agency house for a few years, I'd agree with Bjartur i Sumarhus. Out of the 4 tennants that lived there, 2 sets weren't there for very long, one set were a genuinely nice family and I was actually sorry to see them go when they moved somewhere bigger.
>
> The last lot, however, were well known to the local police, the Residents Association were warned about them, he'd done time for burglary and handling, she was an alcoholic drug addict who I once found unconsious outside my front door next to rocks of crack cocaine, the place got trashed and stank and I got fed up with various police officers knocking on my door to see if I knew where they were - and that's just the summary.
>
>
> In reply to the OP, I'm currently renting out my old house, coincidentally to a mate (so no agent), but still have it done up legally. You'll need to put the deposit with one of the government recognised schemes, have all the relevant contracts, safety certificates, buildings insurance, permission from mortgage lender (mine allows me to let for 2 years, but added 1.5% to the rate!), file tax returns on the rental income and, if you're still got it in 3 years, pay capital gains tax on the sale.
Another vote here for avoiding housing benefit/dss tenants. It isn't bigotry, it's common sense to reduce the risk of non-payment and getting the house trashed, and short term occupancy or even squatting.
Sx
Sx
Post edited at 21:49
In reply to The New NickB:
My experience as a tenant is that although there are some landlords who are a PITA, every single letting agent is out to get you (admittedly some more than others). Firstly, there is the substantial fees they charge for very little at all, and secondly they are basically a barrier to getting anything done...
And landlords, if you feel agencies are treating you badly, don't forget that YOU are their customers... the tenants are just the farm animals with no real choice (once you find a good flat at the right price, you are basically stuck with whatever ridiculous crap the letting agents make you do).
Finally on an unrelated note don't forget that while it may be your house, it is your tenants home and they have all the rights that entails; for example they can change the locks and they don't have to give you a key. Why would you need a key to someone else's home, after all? And the unenforceable crap in letting agent tenancy agreements is amazing...
My experience as a tenant is that although there are some landlords who are a PITA, every single letting agent is out to get you (admittedly some more than others). Firstly, there is the substantial fees they charge for very little at all, and secondly they are basically a barrier to getting anything done...
And landlords, if you feel agencies are treating you badly, don't forget that YOU are their customers... the tenants are just the farm animals with no real choice (once you find a good flat at the right price, you are basically stuck with whatever ridiculous crap the letting agents make you do).
Finally on an unrelated note don't forget that while it may be your house, it is your tenants home and they have all the rights that entails; for example they can change the locks and they don't have to give you a key. Why would you need a key to someone else's home, after all? And the unenforceable crap in letting agent tenancy agreements is amazing...
In reply to The New NickB:
An agent said to me "naturally you won't want anyone on housing benefit" to which I replied "why not?"
I have had all sorts and, frankly, single mums on HB are the easiest. They don't bother me, sort everything out themselves and stay a long time.
Professionals are the most annoying and demanding and the only couple who did a runner owing loads and forcing me to take out a CCJ were a respectable and quiet couple in their late 50's.
Meet the tenants yourself, develop a professional relationship and treat them as you would wish to be treated.
An agent said to me "naturally you won't want anyone on housing benefit" to which I replied "why not?"
I have had all sorts and, frankly, single mums on HB are the easiest. They don't bother me, sort everything out themselves and stay a long time.
Professionals are the most annoying and demanding and the only couple who did a runner owing loads and forcing me to take out a CCJ were a respectable and quiet couple in their late 50's.
Meet the tenants yourself, develop a professional relationship and treat them as you would wish to be treated.
I heard on the news on Radio Four (so it must be true) that a lot of big landlords (500 plus houses) are now issuing end of contract notices to their benefit tenants in.advance of the new way that the government plan to.manage benefits.
As has been pointed out people from all walks of life can cause problems, but being as in.general landlords, especially small.ones, are mot likely to.evict for some months, it makes them an easy target for non-payment of rent!
As has been pointed out people from all walks of life can cause problems, but being as in.general landlords, especially small.ones, are mot likely to.evict for some months, it makes them an easy target for non-payment of rent!
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