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I've been thinking about buying a touring set up to be used mostly for hut to hut touring, skinning into climbs in winter and the likes of the Valle Blanche, but also for use on and off piste resort skiing once in a while.
I've narrowed it down to Atomic aspect skis (122-85-112) @ 182cm, with the Fritschi freeride pro bindings.
Reason behind my selection being a heavier set up for more enjoyment on the down hill but not too heavy for the skin up. Plus a load other reasons which will probably bore a lot of people
So, is this a reasonable set up? Can anyone recommend anything else?
One other thing, boot wise, I was looking at the Black Diamond Slant only because it was cheap, so what is the slant like? Any good for climbing in? Any other recommendations for a good touring boot that can be used for climbing?
Cheers,
Chris
I've narrowed it down to Atomic aspect skis (122-85-112) @ 182cm, with the Fritschi freeride pro bindings.
Reason behind my selection being a heavier set up for more enjoyment on the down hill but not too heavy for the skin up. Plus a load other reasons which will probably bore a lot of people
So, is this a reasonable set up? Can anyone recommend anything else?
One other thing, boot wise, I was looking at the Black Diamond Slant only because it was cheap, so what is the slant like? Any good for climbing in? Any other recommendations for a good touring boot that can be used for climbing?
Cheers,
Chris
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
Yes it's a reasonable set up, I was also looking at the Atomic aspects or the BD aspects, only with pin bindings.
Boot wise I don't know the Slant so can't comment but I would say don't pick a boot just on price. You're better spending money getting a boot that fits perfectly and then looking for a cheap deal on the skis.
Yes it's a reasonable set up, I was also looking at the Atomic aspects or the BD aspects, only with pin bindings.
Boot wise I don't know the Slant so can't comment but I would say don't pick a boot just on price. You're better spending money getting a boot that fits perfectly and then looking for a cheap deal on the skis.
In reply to OwenM:
I was tempted by the Dynafit type pin bindings, but I wanted something a bit more robust just to get the hang of things
Good point on the boots though. I saw the Aspects + bindings reletively cheap on Sportconrad, so best start saving a bit more for some boots.
I was tempted by the Dynafit type pin bindings, but I wanted something a bit more robust just to get the hang of things
Good point on the boots though. I saw the Aspects + bindings reletively cheap on Sportconrad, so best start saving a bit more for some boots.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
Freeride pros are not really a good match for a ski like that, a bit OTT really, the Fritschi Eagles would be more suitable i would think, i wouldn't discount the Dynafit but not really ideal for beginners either.
Boots wise it's a case of whatever fits, forget what's cheap or whats on offer.
Freeride pros are not really a good match for a ski like that, a bit OTT really, the Fritschi Eagles would be more suitable i would think, i wouldn't discount the Dynafit but not really ideal for beginners either.
Boots wise it's a case of whatever fits, forget what's cheap or whats on offer.
In reply to Dark-Cloud:
I did think about the Eagles, but read quite a few good reviews on the freerides about their touring and downhill ability.
I did think about the Eagles, but read quite a few good reviews on the freerides about their touring and downhill ability.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
They are more freeride than touring though and your description of what you want fits the eagles and lighter bindings better.
They are more freeride than touring though and your description of what you want fits the eagles and lighter bindings better.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
Don't go out with a mission to buy a particular boot no matter how good its specs and reviews might be - a ski boot needs to fit you well. Go to a good specialist ship and tell them what you need the boot for and take it from there
Don't go out with a mission to buy a particular boot no matter how good its specs and reviews might be - a ski boot needs to fit you well. Go to a good specialist ship and tell them what you need the boot for and take it from there
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
I've got Atomic Aspect skis. They are great, but light and soft, and that leaves me wondering why you are putting a hard heavy binding on them? It's a bit like, but opposite to, buying a hefty ski (e.g. K2 Hardside) and putting Dynafit on them. All of these things are a compromise as we all want the perfect do-it-all ski-binding combo, but in reality unless you are a ski racer or extreme skier, there probably is less difference than we think. But heavy binding + light soft ski seems a rather strange combo, neither one nor the other; I'd be tempted with a Fritschi binding to schralp it very hard on piste, but doubt the Aspect is up to that sort of skiing, and the Aspect is a great touring ski that is light and better paired with a Dynafit binding.
I've got Atomic Aspect skis. They are great, but light and soft, and that leaves me wondering why you are putting a hard heavy binding on them? It's a bit like, but opposite to, buying a hefty ski (e.g. K2 Hardside) and putting Dynafit on them. All of these things are a compromise as we all want the perfect do-it-all ski-binding combo, but in reality unless you are a ski racer or extreme skier, there probably is less difference than we think. But heavy binding + light soft ski seems a rather strange combo, neither one nor the other; I'd be tempted with a Fritschi binding to schralp it very hard on piste, but doubt the Aspect is up to that sort of skiing, and the Aspect is a great touring ski that is light and better paired with a Dynafit binding.
Post edited at 23:09
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
iv got k2 hardsides with freeride pros as my all round set up heavy enough for piste bashing and still capable for day tours or carrying on a rucksack.
iv got k2 hardsides with freeride pros as my all round set up heavy enough for piste bashing and still capable for day tours or carrying on a rucksack.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Thanks for your advice. I didn't really know what the difference would be if I paired a lighter ski with a heavier binding, but my logic was a lighter ski for the up hill, but the heavier binding for thrashing it down hill, just for the added robustness, and I'd read dynafit were a bit fiddly.
Thanks for your advice. I didn't really know what the difference would be if I paired a lighter ski with a heavier binding, but my logic was a lighter ski for the up hill, but the heavier binding for thrashing it down hill, just for the added robustness, and I'd read dynafit were a bit fiddly.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
Thrashing a light touring ski dowhill isnt really what they are disigned for, a light ski touring ski wont ski any better downhill just beacuse you put a freeride binding on it.
Sounds like you want to be looking for more of a free touring ski if thats the way you want to go.
Thrashing a light touring ski dowhill isnt really what they are disigned for, a light ski touring ski wont ski any better downhill just beacuse you put a freeride binding on it.
Sounds like you want to be looking for more of a free touring ski if thats the way you want to go.
Post edited at 16:45
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
If you want a light (ish) set up that you can enjoy the downs on then you need to do the opposite of what you are looking at and pair a burly ski with a light binding.
And that means a pin binding. Not ideal for beginners but not exactly 'for experts only' either. You'll soon work them out.
If you want a light (ish) set up that you can enjoy the downs on then you need to do the opposite of what you are looking at and pair a burly ski with a light binding.
And that means a pin binding. Not ideal for beginners but not exactly 'for experts only' either. You'll soon work them out.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
You see that kind of set up a lot(and way bigger than a hardside too) in places where people need to skin and carry and still want something burly for the downs. Makes a lot of sense to me.
> (In reply to Mr-Cowdrey) It's a bit like, but opposite to, buying a hefty ski (e.g. K2 Hardside) and putting Dynafit on them.
You see that kind of set up a lot(and way bigger than a hardside too) in places where people need to skin and carry and still want something burly for the downs. Makes a lot of sense to me.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
What would you guys recommend as a do it all set up?
The Aspects are about 3kg for a pair of 182cm, is that regarded as a light weight set up then? Should I be looking at 4kg+ ?
What would you guys recommend as a do it all set up?
The Aspects are about 3kg for a pair of 182cm, is that regarded as a light weight set up then? Should I be looking at 4kg+ ?
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
There is no such thing as a perfect all round set up, like winter climbing gloves everything needs a compromise.
One of the Rossignol s series with dynafit or plum bindings would get my vote but will be heavy for proper touring.
There is no such thing as a perfect all round set up, like winter climbing gloves everything needs a compromise.
One of the Rossignol s series with dynafit or plum bindings would get my vote but will be heavy for proper touring.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
You've told us about the kind of skiing you want to do but not the kind of skier you are. That's what you need to know for a recommendation.
You've told us about the kind of skiing you want to do but not the kind of skier you are. That's what you need to know for a recommendation.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
If you are just learning to ski and have used full on downhill piste skis all of these setups will feel a lot different as well. They will chuck you about on piste and you don't really want to be falling over a lot on any of these set ups, especially dynafit type bindings.
If you are just learning to ski and have used full on downhill piste skis all of these setups will feel a lot different as well. They will chuck you about on piste and you don't really want to be falling over a lot on any of these set ups, especially dynafit type bindings.
In reply to DaveHK:
Only been skiing once, in Austria, but by the end of the week I was skiing all pisted runs parallel, and did a very small amount of off piste through powder and moguls. I'd say I'm fairly aggressive in the way I ski a slope, work well with speed but in contol ie, I can stop and avoid obstacles when need be. But I'm obviously not the most accomplished skier and have a lot to improve on.
In all fairness, I want a set up that can do it all but in reality, the ideal set up would be more touring and off piste based (think Valle Blanche, Haute Route and steep couloirs) but one that'll manage the odd couple of days on piste when the weather in the mountains is too shitty or dangerous to tour etc.
Only been skiing once, in Austria, but by the end of the week I was skiing all pisted runs parallel, and did a very small amount of off piste through powder and moguls. I'd say I'm fairly aggressive in the way I ski a slope, work well with speed but in contol ie, I can stop and avoid obstacles when need be. But I'm obviously not the most accomplished skier and have a lot to improve on.
In all fairness, I want a set up that can do it all but in reality, the ideal set up would be more touring and off piste based (think Valle Blanche, Haute Route and steep couloirs) but one that'll manage the odd couple of days on piste when the weather in the mountains is too shitty or dangerous to tour etc.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
Touring and Off-Piste can mean very different things and (ideally) very different skis depending on exactly what you'll be doing. It's also a matter of personal preference. Some are happy to take a hit on weight for DH performance others are appauled by dragging extra weight uphill. It would help you to decide if you knew which camp you were in.
Not everyone will agree (understatement!) but I think a one ski for everything set up needs to have a dynafit type binding. You give up a little bit of user friendliness but you save so much weight that you can afford to use a heavier ski that will give better DH performance.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
>
> more touring and off piste based (think Valle Blanche, Haute Route and steep couloirs) but one that'll manage the odd couple of days on piste when the weather in the mountains is too shitty or dangerous to tour etc.
>
> more touring and off piste based (think Valle Blanche, Haute Route and steep couloirs) but one that'll manage the odd couple of days on piste when the weather in the mountains is too shitty or dangerous to tour etc.
Touring and Off-Piste can mean very different things and (ideally) very different skis depending on exactly what you'll be doing. It's also a matter of personal preference. Some are happy to take a hit on weight for DH performance others are appauled by dragging extra weight uphill. It would help you to decide if you knew which camp you were in.
Not everyone will agree (understatement!) but I think a one ski for everything set up needs to have a dynafit type binding. You give up a little bit of user friendliness but you save so much weight that you can afford to use a heavier ski that will give better DH performance.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey: Sorry but "only been skiing once " and then talk of steep couloirs may be misplaced.
In reply to earlsdonwhu:
Perhaps it's aspirational and he wants a ski he can grow with rather than something to be replaced as he improves?
Perhaps it's aspirational and he wants a ski he can grow with rather than something to be replaced as he improves?
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
As above, no such thing as a perfect setup, people tour on K2 Coombacks with Marker Tours and then others will use a Dynafit 1.2KG, 80 mm waisted touring ski with a Dynafit, its all about personal preference and what you really will end up using them for, as a beginner you want something thats going to be forgiving and get you out of trouble, not spank your ass the first time you get it wrong, thats what a lightweight touring ski can do.
If it were my money i would be looking at a Salomon Q98 or something similar from one of the big names with Fritschi Vipec for a decent balance of weight and on and off piste performance, will be forgiving enough but still capable of being driven hard if required.
As above, no such thing as a perfect setup, people tour on K2 Coombacks with Marker Tours and then others will use a Dynafit 1.2KG, 80 mm waisted touring ski with a Dynafit, its all about personal preference and what you really will end up using them for, as a beginner you want something thats going to be forgiving and get you out of trouble, not spank your ass the first time you get it wrong, thats what a lightweight touring ski can do.
If it were my money i would be looking at a Salomon Q98 or something similar from one of the big names with Fritschi Vipec for a decent balance of weight and on and off piste performance, will be forgiving enough but still capable of being driven hard if required.
In reply to DaveHK:
That's what I mean an aspiration. I have no intention of skiing steep couloirs just yet but I don't really want to buy a set up, then have to buy a new one in a few years time.
That's what I mean an aspiration. I have no intention of skiing steep couloirs just yet but I don't really want to buy a set up, then have to buy a new one in a few years time.
Post edited at 20:26
In reply to Dark-Cloud:
So a heavier ski with a lighter, dynafit style binding would be better at my stage? Makes sense I suppose.
I think now, I'll rent some touring skis when im in Chamonix next and go from there
So a heavier ski with a lighter, dynafit style binding would be better at my stage? Makes sense I suppose.
I think now, I'll rent some touring skis when im in Chamonix next and go from there
Post edited at 20:29
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
In your position I would spend your money on getting as much good tuition as you can afford/fit in rather than on kit. Learn some good technique and then take it to touring rather than just doing survival skiing and learning bad habits, or worse, breaking yourself
In your position I would spend your money on getting as much good tuition as you can afford/fit in rather than on kit. Learn some good technique and then take it to touring rather than just doing survival skiing and learning bad habits, or worse, breaking yourself
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
I aint saying that just offering options.
> So a heavier ski with a lighter, dynafit style binding would be better at my stage? Makes sense I suppose.
I aint saying that just offering options.
In reply to DaveHK:
I like the option though I'll have a re think.
Thanks for all the replies though everyone.
I like the option though I'll have a re think.
Thanks for all the replies though everyone.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
I was steered away from dynafit bindings for my first touring set, whilst they are a lot lighter, you're much more likely to break your knees if you fall.
Don't know where you're based but it's worth getting boots from somewhere which will (1) let you take boots back as many times as it takes to tweek the fit and (2) where you'd be prepared to travel for that to be a possibility. Spend the money on getting a well fitting boot, save cash on 2nd hand skis, buy & sell while you're figuring out what you really want.
After struggling with ill fitting second hand boots a few times, I
I got my boots from backcountry UK, its a 4 hour train ride to Keighley for me but well worth the trip. I've been back twice for slight adjustments to the fit. the adjustments involved heating boot then stretching them. Also grinding the insole thinner to allow more space.
Also if you're planning to work on technique on piste a bit more before going off piste, then touring kit is often not recommmended to learn with, as it's generally harder to control & can hinder development of good technique.
I would also agree with Paul Atkinson. tuition first, kit later. Tips for quailty but affordable tuition are: Evolution2, AAC(UK), Eagle ski club.
I was steered away from dynafit bindings for my first touring set, whilst they are a lot lighter, you're much more likely to break your knees if you fall.
Don't know where you're based but it's worth getting boots from somewhere which will (1) let you take boots back as many times as it takes to tweek the fit and (2) where you'd be prepared to travel for that to be a possibility. Spend the money on getting a well fitting boot, save cash on 2nd hand skis, buy & sell while you're figuring out what you really want.
After struggling with ill fitting second hand boots a few times, I
I got my boots from backcountry UK, its a 4 hour train ride to Keighley for me but well worth the trip. I've been back twice for slight adjustments to the fit. the adjustments involved heating boot then stretching them. Also grinding the insole thinner to allow more space.
Also if you're planning to work on technique on piste a bit more before going off piste, then touring kit is often not recommmended to learn with, as it's generally harder to control & can hinder development of good technique.
I would also agree with Paul Atkinson. tuition first, kit later. Tips for quailty but affordable tuition are: Evolution2, AAC(UK), Eagle ski club.
Post edited at 21:34
In reply to climatechangeisreal:
20 years ago maybe. Not an issue with modern touring kit.
> touring kit is often not recommmended to learn with, as it's generally harder to control & can hinder development of good technique.
20 years ago maybe. Not an issue with modern touring kit.
Post edited at 22:02
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
85 underfoot is a bit skinny these days. You might consider something a bit wider but still fairly light. I would be much happier pootling around on something 100mm+ in order to enjoy the down a bit more. If you are concerned the extra weight then as said above maybe think about dynafit binders.
85 underfoot is a bit skinny these days. You might consider something a bit wider but still fairly light. I would be much happier pootling around on something 100mm+ in order to enjoy the down a bit more. If you are concerned the extra weight then as said above maybe think about dynafit binders.
In reply to climatechangeisreal: my first time skiing on real snow was on a touring set up and didn't have any problems. Didn't notice the difference between the touring setup and my downhill skies.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
That's the point of skiing and climbing.... endless possibilities of new kit! The second hand market for touring kit is pretty strong.
> That's what I mean an aspiration. I have no intention of skiing steep couloirs just yet but I don't really want to buy a set up, then have to buy a new one in a few years time.
That's the point of skiing and climbing.... endless possibilities of new kit! The second hand market for touring kit is pretty strong.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
So completely disregarding my original post, does anyone know of a site for cheap ski deals? I want to see if I can buy a set up (maybe not including boots) for less than rental price.
So completely disregarding my original post, does anyone know of a site for cheap ski deals? I want to see if I can buy a set up (maybe not including boots) for less than rental price.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
Not cheap back country options since the market is smaller but you might try:
http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/
it's generally hard to get bindings on sale.....last season's skis is a bit easier. You don't really get "deals" as such for touring ie a cheap ski, binding boot package as you might with normal alpine. I would caution against deciding on a set up without testing it first.
Not cheap back country options since the market is smaller but you might try:
http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/
it's generally hard to get bindings on sale.....last season's skis is a bit easier. You don't really get "deals" as such for touring ie a cheap ski, binding boot package as you might with normal alpine. I would caution against deciding on a set up without testing it first.
In reply to Chris Ridgers:
touring boots are generally softer than regular downhill boots, freeride boots somewhere in between. Touring bindings but your boot further away from the ski than regular downhill bindings. So in general it's a little harder to turn your skis with touring kit. So with touring kit you need slightly better technique to get your turns in, especially on more difficult terrain.
Several experienced ski instructors said I was unwise to learn to ski with touring kit for these reasons and the touring kit was holding back my development, they did have a point, my technique was lousy (but by that point I'd paid my money & was unwilling to go back to renting...).
touring boots are generally softer than regular downhill boots, freeride boots somewhere in between. Touring bindings but your boot further away from the ski than regular downhill bindings. So in general it's a little harder to turn your skis with touring kit. So with touring kit you need slightly better technique to get your turns in, especially on more difficult terrain.
Several experienced ski instructors said I was unwise to learn to ski with touring kit for these reasons and the touring kit was holding back my development, they did have a point, my technique was lousy (but by that point I'd paid my money & was unwilling to go back to renting...).
Post edited at 09:46
In reply to Morgan Woods:
Sorry mate, but that is simply not true. Have a look at www.sport-conrad.com, I've bought 2 packages from them, first was Atomic touring skis, Dynafit bindings, boots and skins, the second was K2 hardsides, Fritschi bindings, K2 skins. For EACH setup, the total saving was over 300 quid compared to UK prices.
> You don't really get "deals" as such for touring ie a cheap ski, binding boot package as you might with normal alpine.
Sorry mate, but that is simply not true. Have a look at www.sport-conrad.com, I've bought 2 packages from them, first was Atomic touring skis, Dynafit bindings, boots and skins, the second was K2 hardsides, Fritschi bindings, K2 skins. For EACH setup, the total saving was over 300 quid compared to UK prices.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Just had a look and the prices are great! Although not cheaper than rentung in the short term, after another trip I'll be saving money!
In regards to sport conrad, I see they have the Atomic Aspects I wanted in the first place. How are the Dynafit TLT speed bindings with these skis?
Just had a look and the prices are great! Although not cheaper than rentung in the short term, after another trip I'll be saving money!
In regards to sport conrad, I see they have the Atomic Aspects I wanted in the first place. How are the Dynafit TLT speed bindings with these skis?
Post edited at 22:32
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
Light soft ski, light binding, an excellent touring combination, fine on piste, but not great on piste.
Light soft ski, light binding, an excellent touring combination, fine on piste, but not great on piste.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
You're never going to find a new set cheaper than renting in the short term. I'm not sure this is realistic?
You're never going to find a new set cheaper than renting in the short term. I'm not sure this is realistic?
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Sounds good if they're not great on piste then that's not too bad, I'd only use them on the occasional day.
Sounds good if they're not great on piste then that's not too bad, I'd only use them on the occasional day.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
I think your best option would be to initially buy a second hand set of touring skis and bindings, e.g. BD Aspects with Fritschi's or Markers; it doesn't really matter at this stage.
Then learn to ski tour well, learn what you like and what you don't like, get plenty of experience and don't worry about trashing your (relatively) cheap set up.
Then, once your skiing well (and also have a good idea about what you want) you'll be in an ideal position to buy a new set up that will suit you.
DO spend money on a new pair of boots though; boots are worth getting right from the start. Buy the boot that fits you the best; don't get hung up on Brands or Models. Also, it's worth noting that now the Dynafit patent has expired almost all touring boots you can buy now have the wee fittings built in that you need for Dynafit bindings. I.e. it’s one less decision as all touring boots should fit either Fritschi, Marker, Dynafit, or Plum bindings.
I think your best option would be to initially buy a second hand set of touring skis and bindings, e.g. BD Aspects with Fritschi's or Markers; it doesn't really matter at this stage.
Then learn to ski tour well, learn what you like and what you don't like, get plenty of experience and don't worry about trashing your (relatively) cheap set up.
Then, once your skiing well (and also have a good idea about what you want) you'll be in an ideal position to buy a new set up that will suit you.
DO spend money on a new pair of boots though; boots are worth getting right from the start. Buy the boot that fits you the best; don't get hung up on Brands or Models. Also, it's worth noting that now the Dynafit patent has expired almost all touring boots you can buy now have the wee fittings built in that you need for Dynafit bindings. I.e. it’s one less decision as all touring boots should fit either Fritschi, Marker, Dynafit, or Plum bindings.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Thanks for the tip, their packages look good. My point was more for physical shops based on what i've seen in France. I still wouldn't buy boots online.
> Sorry mate, but that is simply not true. Have a look at www.sport-conrad.com, I've bought 2 packages from them, first was Atomic touring skis, Dynafit bindings, boots and skins, the second was K2 hardsides, Fritschi bindings, K2 skins. For EACH setup, the total saving was over 300 quid compared to UK prices.
Thanks for the tip, their packages look good. My point was more for physical shops based on what i've seen in France. I still wouldn't buy boots online.
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