/ Yet another pop at the Sochi Olympics

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/03/sochi-pest-control-stray-dogs-winter-olympics

I'm finding it all a bit biased and tiresome now. The Guardian is particularly anti-Russia.
Mike Stretford - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity: Yes I agree, though I find the BBC worse.



lost1977 - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

they seem to forget that in the UK last year over 7000 strays where PTS
Jim C - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Papillon:

> Yes I agree, though I find the BBC worse.

I watched a programme last week I think , that said the whole thing was corrupt, and Putin's pals were getting all the big contracts at inflated prices, making it the most expensive Olympics yet.

What a shocking slur, I don't believe a word of it.
http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeye/episodes/putins-road-to-sochi

I wonder who got the contract to make the snow ?

“You’d have to spend a long time searching the map of this huge country to find someplace with no snow,” says Boris Nemtsov, a member of the Russian Opposition Coordination Council. “Putin found it.”
In reply to Jim C:

The fact that there is corruption is Russia is no shock to anyone; there's only so long the western media can go on about it given that they aren't going to change it.

The Panorama thing was a bit of a stitch-up, with the journo going into an area for which he had no pass and then bleating when the FSB turned-up (and bear in mind this is just after 34 (IIRC) people were killed by terrorists in Volgograd.
Redacted - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Wasn't that the same journalist who painted a very twisted and nasty Western view of North Korea?it makes my blood boil when i see our license fees used to support Western propaganda.The same was true for Ukraine at some big football thing a while back,where they were trying to persuade British people not to go there.They probably didn't want the Brutish to see all the statues to former Soviet leaders and this-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Motherland,_Kiev

It may spoil the carefully and rigorously crafted Western illusion that all the peoples of the former USSR and Eastern Bloc hated Communism,which is pure propaganda.
Sir Chasm - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Redacted: A nasty view of North Korea? Because it's lovely really?
Yet another name, Shona?

Choss on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Bloody dog Killers. To hell with them all!
Post edited at 18:38
In reply to Sir Chasm:

No stray dogs in N Korea...
Timmd on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Redacted:
Things are so f*ked up in North Korea that street children get murdered and put into stews and sold as pork from stalls selling street food.

North Korea is reliant on outside aid so that people don't starve, and families which have been separated by the forming of North and South Korea into two countries aren't allowed to re-join each other, except from when the ones in the north are lucky enough to be chosen as the ones who can go and meet their long lost families for a while, before the heart wrenching separating which occurs when it's time for them to go home again, which results in them crying to each other through the coach windows.

There's so much information out there if you want to find out how things are in North Korea, it's one of the grimmer countries. :-(
Post edited at 22:58
Postmanpat on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Sir Chasm:

> A nasty view of North Korea? Because it's lovely really?

> Yet another name, Shona?

She's got stamina, if not a lot else.
KingStapo - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
> I'm finding it all a bit biased and tiresome now. The Guardian is particularly anti-Russia.

because Russia is a vile and hateful place run by Hitler mk2...

To be honest I think they deserve all the hateful journalism that can be thrown at them. I find it incredible that such a country exists. "There are no gays in Sochi" Effing REALLY!!!!????

Bunch of clunge puppets tha lot of em.

In reply to KingStapo:

> because Russia is a vile and hateful place run by Hitler mk2...

> To be honest I think they deserve all the hateful journalism that can be thrown at them. I find it incredible that such a country exists. "There are no gays in Sochi" Effing REALLY!!!!????

> Bunch of clunge puppets tha lot of em.

Do you know any Russians? Have you been there?
Double Knee Bar - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to KingStapo:

So you think putin is hitler mkII then you go on to label a nation of people as "clunge puppets".
The New NickB - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Double Knee Bar:

Is a clunge puppet some sort of sex toy?
steveej - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

I spent 4 months there and agree with the previous post.
In reply to steveej:

Which previous post?
Fat Bumbly2 - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

"The Guardian is particularly anti-Russia."

Rather amusing to those of us of a certain age.
KingStapo - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to The New NickB:

> Is a clunge puppet some sort of sex toy?

I guess, not too sure really, had to write that as UKC wouldn't let me write a far more inflammatory C-word...
Ridge - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

> No stray dogs in N Korea...

"Free Range" is the approved term, not stray.
The New NickB - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

> "The Guardian is particularly anti-Russia."

> Rather amusing to those of us of a certain age.

Not really, the Guardian's support of the Soviet Union is something of a myth.
elsewhere on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

> "The Guardian is particularly anti-Russia."

> Rather amusing to those of us of a certain age.

80 years ago the then Manchester Guardian was reporting the Ukrainian famine when the NYT said there was no famine so I'm guessing you are or soon will be a centenarian. Congratulations!
Redacted - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to KingStapo:

Are you 8 years old and some bigger boy called Ivan has just walked off with your new toy ?
The New NickB - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Redacted:

Interesting to see you support a capitalist like Putin!
Redacted - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Timmd:
> Things are so f*ked up in North Korea that street children get murdered and put into stews and sold as pork from stalls selling street food.

Does that come from the same sources who tell the world the result of the deaths during the NK famine of 94-97 were caused by the Government starving the people and not the greatest floods and droughts in living memory?

Don't tell me about NK Tim i've been through this already and exposed the lies and exaggerations perpetuated by the Western governments who have been murdering millions by sanctions,invasions,bombings and of late,soft war.

Go look it up there's
> so much information out there if you want to find out
Redacted - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to The New NickB:

I support the Motherland !
Mother Russia !
Redacted - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Postmanpat:
> She's got stamina, if not a lot else.

At least i'm not a wee bitch like some,know what i mean Patsy ?
Post edited at 22:50
In reply to elsewhere:

Wasn't it the Manchester Guardian's reporter who Stalin had the NKVD kill? Welsh bloke, Methodist, Socialist... can't remember his name off the top of my head, but IIRC the Times' man in Moscow was a fellow traveling useful idiot despite his aristocratic heritage.
The New NickB - on 05 Feb 2014
Enty - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Saw some great Tweets on FB from journos staying in hotels there. Stray dogs in the foyer etc etc.........

E
ads.ukclimbing.com
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to KingStapo:

I go to Moscow quite often with work. Have to say I like the place a lot. The female fashion is what I would term "Whore chic" and nearly all of them carry it off brilliantly. Whenever there is a pitch in Russia there is no shortage of volunteers in the office. I think we shall start using the term "Clunge Puppets".....you sir, are a genius and should write for Viz

In reply to KingStapo:

I presume that you'll be heading off to Saudi soon with your rainbow flag?
Sir Chasm - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity: Good point, there are worse countries for gay rights than Russia, so we shouldn't criticise Russia. Especially when the whole world is watching.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I think Moscow has more breathtakingly beautiful women than anywhere on earth.
Al Evans on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Redacted:

> I support the Motherland !

> Mother Russia !

Can anybody tell me what is the difference between The Motherland and The Fatherland?
In reply to Al Evans:

Sex?
nufkin - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Even better than Reykjavik?




Which also, in the interests of balance, has quality man-crumpet too
TomBaker - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Redacted:

I particularly like "killing through sanctions" you mean that not only do they not produce enough food for themselves (yes I know plenty of countries don't (they however are all friendly with the outside world)but that whilst the upper classes eat they let the rest starve. Terrible!!

I thought we were currently feeding most of them through aid, whilst they farmland is badly managed.
Mike Stretford - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Some balance form the Guardian

http://tinyurl.com/ndepptb

I agree with a lot of that article. I've been to Russia and even university staff didn't disappoint in terms of racism and homophobia..... but what they really enjoy is pointing out the hypocrisy of the western media, and let's face it, they can have a field day.

We give millions in aid to India and our politicians go on tours promoting business. We are strong allies with Saudi Arabia despite their abhorrent laws. We even tiptoe about when it comes to criticising homophobia from communities in our own society. So all in all it's a bit rich to keep banging on about Russia.

There's been long standing grudges between the US/UK and Russia, and the media is happy to play its part. I really did question (to myself) whether this was in our best interests while I was out there. My hotel was full of Germans doing business and making money, apparently the governments are cooperating for this very reason. I wonder if we'd be better off with a slice of the pie rather than carrying on with this grudge.
Post edited at 11:12
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to nufkin:

Definitely better than Reykjavik
Sir Chasm - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Papillon: I wonder if the "banging on about Russia" could be linked to an international sporting event being held there. Perhaps when the Olympics (maybe not the winter ones) are held in Saudi Arabia they will come under scrutiny too.

Mike Stretford - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Sir Chasm:

> I wonder if the "banging on about Russia" could be linked to an international sporting event being held there. Perhaps when the Olympics (maybe not the winter ones) are held in Saudi Arabia they will come under scrutiny too.

It's been going on for quite some time, long before the games.

India has worse laws than Russia when it comes to sexuality.... they had the Commonwealth games in 2010, we sent Prince Charlie and I don't remember this much fuss.
Sir Chasm - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Papillon: Do you want us to be nicer to Russia? Nastier to India? Ignore human rights issues as long as we can make some money? Is your problem that we're inconsistent?

Mike Stretford - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Sir Chasm:
> Ignore human rights issues as long as we can make some money? Is your problem that we're inconsistent?

No, yes.

Our inconsistency is ridiculed in Russia, any positive impact we may hope to have is lost, and Putin gains.

We do ignore human rights issues to make money, the question should be were we draw the line.

What do you think?
Post edited at 11:47
Sir Chasm - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Papillon: I think the Grauniad would have had at least as much of a pop if the games had been held in any country with a dubious human rights record - did you expect the Guardian to be uncritical? And of course we're inconsistent, expecting anything else would be naive, why would you expect the government,the opposition,the right wing media and the left wing media to have a consistent approach?

Mike Stretford - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Sir Chasm:

> I think the Grauniad would have had at least as much of a pop if the games had been held in any country with a dubious human rights record - did you expect the Guardian to be uncritical?

I would expect it from the Guardian, naturally, though it doesn't always happen (that misspelling is eternally funny isn't it!). To their credit were the only paper to run a piece highly critical on Sheikh Mansour. I shouldn't expect it from the BBC but I do.

> And of course we're inconsistent, expecting anything else would be naive, why would you expect the government,the opposition,the right wing media and the left wing media to have a consistent approach?

You don't seem to have picked up on the scale of criticism that the OP and I have, or seem to disagree with us that it is happening.

There is often a consensus in British politics and the media when it comes to foreign relation and I think that is the case when it comes to Russia.


Sir Chasm - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Papillon:

> I would expect it from the Guardian, naturally, though it doesn't always happen (that misspelling is eternally funny isn't it!). To their credit were the only paper to run a piece highly critical on Sheikh Mansour. I shouldn't expect it from the BBC but I do.



> You don't seem to have picked up on the scale of criticism that the OP and I have, or seem to disagree with us that it is happening.

I don't disagree that Russia is being criticised. As to the scale of it, hosting the Olympics focuses attention on the host country and I don't think Russia is being criticised any more than China was.

> There is often a consensus in British politics and the media when it comes to foreign relation and I think that is the case when it comes to Russia.

I don't agree that there is often a consensus in British politics and the media when it comes to foreign relation.
Redacted - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to TomBaker:

TBH i don't know enough about the present situation in NK to comment and by the sounds of things you know far less than i do.When i spoke of killing by sanctions i was of course talking of our(UK/US)sanctions in Iraq that killed up to 1 million people.
Redacted - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Sir Chasm:
> I don't agree that there is often a consensus in British politics and the media when it comes to foreign relation.

WTF !
I won't hijack this thread but what planet are you on kid ?
Fat Bumbly2 - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to The New NickB:
I know it's a myth - I was referring to the usual rightard accusations of the era. (Cold war for the Ukraine cleverclogs).
Post edited at 19:34
felt - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Al Evans:

> Can anybody tell me what is the difference between The Motherland and The Fatherland?

This is interesting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland
Bruce Hooker - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Papillon:

> India has worse laws than Russia when it comes to sexuality.... they had the Commonwealth games in 2010, we sent Prince Charlie and I don't remember this much fuss.

That's a good point, it just didn't come up, did it? Could it be anything to do with politics, and yet how may times has the Conservative Party said sport should be kept out of politics, when people didn't want Britain playing rugby with South Africa during apartheid, for example.

For information it's just as bad in France, nearly all the news reports about the Olympics are negative, yesterday it was the buildings not being ready - lots of shots of bemused gardeners or build workers on clearly unfinished sites saying "Don't worry everything will be ready on time" and today it's shorts of massive military concentrations around Sochi, as if this was anything shocking. Only saved at the end by the "man on the spot" saying the controls were tight but no more than previous games. Very anti-Putin too, can't anyone tell them that in Russia he is very popular?
Redacted - on 06 Feb 2014
In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Don't forget Putin isn't bowing to the Nato neo-colonialist led attack on Syria,nor is he bowing to our backward Islamist fascist Wahabi friends in Saudi and Qatar.So our press,who are their PR arm dutifully trumpet the anti-Russian rhetoric from their BBC/C4/Reuters/Sky/NBC/CNN/Al-Jazeera/ITN propaganda mills.

It's all old news though as it's been going on since 1917,though some people really struggle to get their wee minds around it.




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