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Has anyone had any problems with eVent at all? I have a pair of eVent trousers and gaiters, both around 2 years old. They both started wetting out recently, and so were re-proofed. They never seemed to bead again though, but didn't leak (I understand the re-proofing is for teh outer fabric). The last two outings I have come home SOAKED to the skin because my trousers are leaking completely, everywhere. Not damp in places, but soaking me from the waist down. The waist itself (under my jacket) is dry, but everything below is soaked.
Ok, it has been very wet and very windy lately, but it seems odd they've both done similar things in a similar timescale and my Active or Pro Shell jackets haven't let a drop through in the same conditions.
Anyone had similar, over a similar timescale? Not sure I shall be buying eVent again, which is a shame as I had, until recently, praised these trousers!
Ok, it has been very wet and very windy lately, but it seems odd they've both done similar things in a similar timescale and my Active or Pro Shell jackets haven't let a drop through in the same conditions.
Anyone had similar, over a similar timescale? Not sure I shall be buying eVent again, which is a shame as I had, until recently, praised these trousers!
In reply to Martin1978:
Yes. It's shit. You were lucky to get 2 years.
> Has anyone had any problems with eVent at all?
Yes. It's shit. You were lucky to get 2 years.
In reply to Martin1978:
Had similar problems with my Montane Superfly XT jacket. Completely wets out and then you get soaked to the skin. I was always under the presumption that while breathable jackets might wet out and stop breathing they wouldn't actually leak.
I have put it down to not washing the fabric enough. It has seen what I consider light sporadic use in the mountains and a bit of wearing around town. I have only re-proofed the jacket 2/3 times in around 4 years of ownership. And it has let me down 3/4 times. The last time it only took 2.5 hours of continual rain before I was soaked to the skin. One occasion my 2 friends in Paramo gear where dry under their jackets while I was wet; their jackets had seen way more use than mine.
However seen as my jacket is 4 years old now I've given it another re-proof and if it leaks again I'll be getting another jacket, which will definitely be Gore-Tex. My 50,000 miles Goretex motorbike jacket doesn't leak and that has only been washed once in the 7 years I've owned it.
Had similar problems with my Montane Superfly XT jacket. Completely wets out and then you get soaked to the skin. I was always under the presumption that while breathable jackets might wet out and stop breathing they wouldn't actually leak.
I have put it down to not washing the fabric enough. It has seen what I consider light sporadic use in the mountains and a bit of wearing around town. I have only re-proofed the jacket 2/3 times in around 4 years of ownership. And it has let me down 3/4 times. The last time it only took 2.5 hours of continual rain before I was soaked to the skin. One occasion my 2 friends in Paramo gear where dry under their jackets while I was wet; their jackets had seen way more use than mine.
However seen as my jacket is 4 years old now I've given it another re-proof and if it leaks again I'll be getting another jacket, which will definitely be Gore-Tex. My 50,000 miles Goretex motorbike jacket doesn't leak and that has only been washed once in the 7 years I've owned it.
In reply to CharlieW:
Yes. 3 years and mine leaks like a sieve despite taking care washing, reproofing and tumble drying. The taped seams are peeling and parts of the membrane are delaminating.
Yes. 3 years and mine leaks like a sieve despite taking care washing, reproofing and tumble drying. The taped seams are peeling and parts of the membrane are delaminating.
In reply to all:
Hmm, seems like they've had their day then. Not what I wanted to hear, but thanks all. I've only just (this week) bought a new jacket (thankfully pro-shell!) so I'm skint, but it looks like I'll be shopping again Judging by this straw-poll it won't be eVent.
I know people love to slag of goretex but I've never had it leak, be it paclite, active shell or (as of this week), pro shell.
I've contacted the manufacturer so will see what they say but not hopeful.
Cheers all.
Hmm, seems like they've had their day then. Not what I wanted to hear, but thanks all. I've only just (this week) bought a new jacket (thankfully pro-shell!) so I'm skint, but it looks like I'll be shopping again Judging by this straw-poll it won't be eVent.
I know people love to slag of goretex but I've never had it leak, be it paclite, active shell or (as of this week), pro shell.
I've contacted the manufacturer so will see what they say but not hopeful.
Cheers all.
In reply to DaveHK:
Yes, it is shit. I've got an expensive event jacket which is basically a windproof now, but not as comfy, breathable or, waterproof as my paramo wind proof smock. Grrrr. Marketing hype.
Yes, it is shit. I've got an expensive event jacket which is basically a windproof now, but not as comfy, breathable or, waterproof as my paramo wind proof smock. Grrrr. Marketing hype.
In reply to Martin1978:
I've read this thread in despair... my bivi is eVent! Hope it's more to due with heavy use than degradation over time.
I've read this thread in despair... my bivi is eVent! Hope it's more to due with heavy use than degradation over time.
In reply to Martin1978:
Smart akec response first: this is why I switched to paramo!
Slightly more helpful: have you contacted the retailer? 2 years is not a long time and it should be covered under guarantee. If they (or more likely the manufacturer) try and fob you off with it being the lifetime of the garment or it being par for the course for lightweight gear then unless you've abused it, it isn't fit for purpose under the sale of goods act. You can download letters from the bbc consumer programs to help you pursue this.
Remember your contract is with the retailer, not the manufacturer so if the manufacturer plays the worn out card, that's the retailer's look out not yours.
That said, most manufacturers are very good at sorting this stuff out.
Smart akec response first: this is why I switched to paramo!
Slightly more helpful: have you contacted the retailer? 2 years is not a long time and it should be covered under guarantee. If they (or more likely the manufacturer) try and fob you off with it being the lifetime of the garment or it being par for the course for lightweight gear then unless you've abused it, it isn't fit for purpose under the sale of goods act. You can download letters from the bbc consumer programs to help you pursue this.
Remember your contract is with the retailer, not the manufacturer so if the manufacturer plays the worn out card, that's the retailer's look out not yours.
That said, most manufacturers are very good at sorting this stuff out.
In reply to Martin1978:
Her was me thinking it was just me! My Montane Superfly XT and Rab Latok Trousers have both been wetting out over the last few weekends in Scotland. The jacket is well worn, but the trousers haven't had much wear.
Just washed and re proofed both today ready for next weekend. Really hoping for a better performance from them. Taking my Paramo Velez as a back up though. Ten days is a long time to keep getting wet!
Up until now, and reading these posts, I've been really impressed with eVent. Still hopeful my kit just needed cleaning. Update to follow.
Her was me thinking it was just me! My Montane Superfly XT and Rab Latok Trousers have both been wetting out over the last few weekends in Scotland. The jacket is well worn, but the trousers haven't had much wear.
Just washed and re proofed both today ready for next weekend. Really hoping for a better performance from them. Taking my Paramo Velez as a back up though. Ten days is a long time to keep getting wet!
Up until now, and reading these posts, I've been really impressed with eVent. Still hopeful my kit just needed cleaning. Update to follow.
In reply to angry pirate:
I've contacted the manufacturer directly, they were very helpful with a faulty rucksack so I'm hoping for the same with the trousers.
Regarding wear, the trousers have worn very well and the outer is super durable, which is part of the reason I asked about other peoples experiences. It's a shame the membrane seems to be letting down otherwise serviceable kit. Not very environmentally sound or value for money. I'd repair any of my garments (and have done a lot), but I can't do anything about the membrane failing.
Interestingly, I've been searching for the eVent guarantee and can't find it? Unlike goretex who make a big deal about promoting their guarantee (which I have used and they stood by).
I've contacted the manufacturer directly, they were very helpful with a faulty rucksack so I'm hoping for the same with the trousers.
Regarding wear, the trousers have worn very well and the outer is super durable, which is part of the reason I asked about other peoples experiences. It's a shame the membrane seems to be letting down otherwise serviceable kit. Not very environmentally sound or value for money. I'd repair any of my garments (and have done a lot), but I can't do anything about the membrane failing.
Interestingly, I've been searching for the eVent guarantee and can't find it? Unlike goretex who make a big deal about promoting their guarantee (which I have used and they stood by).
In reply to Martin1978:
Mine was great at first, for about 2 years, then i switched back to a much cheaper jacket i bought that did the business better, and still does.
Best bit of clothing I ever bought however, is the paramo cascada trousers, nothing touches them, wind, rain, snow or hail
Mine was great at first, for about 2 years, then i switched back to a much cheaper jacket i bought that did the business better, and still does.
Best bit of clothing I ever bought however, is the paramo cascada trousers, nothing touches them, wind, rain, snow or hail
Mine is fine after four years.
...I haven't washed it much.
In reply to Martin1978:
I have had a Montane event jacket for aprox 15years and it has never leaked I wash wash it every year and re waterproof it. Best lightweight jacket I ever bought.
I have had a Montane event jacket for aprox 15years and it has never leaked I wash wash it every year and re waterproof it. Best lightweight jacket I ever bought.
In reply to Martin1978:
I used to work in cotswolds and while there bought latok salopettes & jacket, both heavy duty event.
I've only used it for winter climbing or when I know it's ging to be horrendous weather in summer, preferring softshell and being warm & wet usually.
After about 20 days out my jacket started wetting out, reproofed it very well, even ironed the stuff on to get the beading back.
Still got patches of wetting out, especially around elbows and across my chest & shoulders.
Asking about it I got told by a sales rep that in order for it to remain waterproof it has to fit properly so the jacket isn't unduly stressed... I sadly looked at my extra long knuckle brushing the floor arms and opted for a paramo .
In conclusion I think that Event has it's place, but that's not in winter, found it good on the days where you weren't carrying a rucksack so nothing to rub water through it - approximately never.
I used to work in cotswolds and while there bought latok salopettes & jacket, both heavy duty event.
I've only used it for winter climbing or when I know it's ging to be horrendous weather in summer, preferring softshell and being warm & wet usually.
After about 20 days out my jacket started wetting out, reproofed it very well, even ironed the stuff on to get the beading back.
Still got patches of wetting out, especially around elbows and across my chest & shoulders.
Asking about it I got told by a sales rep that in order for it to remain waterproof it has to fit properly so the jacket isn't unduly stressed... I sadly looked at my extra long knuckle brushing the floor arms and opted for a paramo .
In conclusion I think that Event has it's place, but that's not in winter, found it good on the days where you weren't carrying a rucksack so nothing to rub water through it - approximately never.
In reply to Martin1978:
I think that, before writing your items off, you might try a fairly aggressive wash with a detergent.
Event was launched with much fanfare that it didn't need the PU smear that Gore-tex uses since they'd found a way of protecting the ePTFE pores from oil contamination that caused a breach of Gen I (no PU) Gore-tex.
Long-term use with production fabrics showed that they had been optimistic, and Event also suffers pore contamination and subsequent breach of the membrane (dirt attracted by the oil contamination draws water through the pores).
As a result, they revised their washing instructions, to recommend a detergent wash to remove the oil contamination, followed by a soap wash to remove the traces of detergent that would negate the DWR.
So it may be that your trousers and jacket are suffering this oil contamination problem, and you may be able to cure it with a damned good wash process. Or it could be that the membrane really has failed catastrophically... I'd say it's worth a try.
I think that, before writing your items off, you might try a fairly aggressive wash with a detergent.
Event was launched with much fanfare that it didn't need the PU smear that Gore-tex uses since they'd found a way of protecting the ePTFE pores from oil contamination that caused a breach of Gen I (no PU) Gore-tex.
Long-term use with production fabrics showed that they had been optimistic, and Event also suffers pore contamination and subsequent breach of the membrane (dirt attracted by the oil contamination draws water through the pores).
As a result, they revised their washing instructions, to recommend a detergent wash to remove the oil contamination, followed by a soap wash to remove the traces of detergent that would negate the DWR.
So it may be that your trousers and jacket are suffering this oil contamination problem, and you may be able to cure it with a damned good wash process. Or it could be that the membrane really has failed catastrophically... I'd say it's worth a try.
In reply to Martin1978:
I also had this problem with eVent trousers,leaking badly. I contacted Montane about it, even send some pictures to them. They have suggested that I should wash my trousers with normal detergent but turned inside out. I even gently rubbed some detergent in. Then I washed them on a normal washing cycle. It worked out great, with no leakage after that.
I also had this problem with eVent trousers,leaking badly. I contacted Montane about it, even send some pictures to them. They have suggested that I should wash my trousers with normal detergent but turned inside out. I even gently rubbed some detergent in. Then I washed them on a normal washing cycle. It worked out great, with no leakage after that.
In reply to captain paranoia:
That's what the manufacturer has basically said, they've sent me washing instructions that are different to previous instructions. Basically wash in liquid detergent with normal clothing, rinse twice, and iron low to restore DWR.
I have tried the above and given a dosing of Nikwax TX Direct (as directed), so will see if that makes a difference...
That's what the manufacturer has basically said, they've sent me washing instructions that are different to previous instructions. Basically wash in liquid detergent with normal clothing, rinse twice, and iron low to restore DWR.
I have tried the above and given a dosing of Nikwax TX Direct (as directed), so will see if that makes a difference...
In reply to matejn:
Thanks, fingers crossed that works then. It seems that soap/Nikwax tech-wash doesn't remove enough dirt or oils.
Maybe that's why goretex also suggest a liquid detergent for cleaning now?
Thanks, fingers crossed that works then. It seems that soap/Nikwax tech-wash doesn't remove enough dirt or oils.
Maybe that's why goretex also suggest a liquid detergent for cleaning now?
In reply to Martin1978:
I had a latok alpine jacket which after about 2 years of occasional use simply wasn't waterproof. I got soaked in the rain...tried washing normally.
Bought Goretex and wouldnt go back.
Only shame is, I like Rab's cut/fit and attention to detail.
But, Mountain Equipmemt are just as good, and use goretex.
I had a latok alpine jacket which after about 2 years of occasional use simply wasn't waterproof. I got soaked in the rain...tried washing normally.
Bought Goretex and wouldnt go back.
Only shame is, I like Rab's cut/fit and attention to detail.
But, Mountain Equipmemt are just as good, and use goretex.
In reply to MattJ753:
My Vaude e-vent (love it) has just started wetting out after approx 3 years hard use. Can't grumble having got this for £40 in TK max mind. Just bought a berghaus vapour goretex for a reasonable £110 from sports pursuit so we'll see how that lasts !
My Vaude e-vent (love it) has just started wetting out after approx 3 years hard use. Can't grumble having got this for £40 in TK max mind. Just bought a berghaus vapour goretex for a reasonable £110 from sports pursuit so we'll see how that lasts !
In reply to captain paranoia:
NeoShell is also an air perm fabric without that PU layer, as is the new Goretex Pro as I understand it all. It's interesting that Marmot for example are talking up the the air permeable nature of the new Gore Pro as making the jackets more comfortable vimeo.com/85906208 It strikes me that what they are really saying is what some of us have been discussing about NeoShell - it's not fully windproof therefore it should breath better.
But it will be interesting to see if NeoShell and Gore Pro face the same contamination and leakage problems that people seem to be consistently reporting with eVent.
I've been getting some wet patches under shoulder straps for example whilst using the Jöttnar NeoShell jacket in horrible weather so have been thinking about this. Currently I'm inclined to think its sweat failing to breath in those areas rather than water coming through from the outside, but I did wonder if pressure (on the outside) could do the same as contamination and allow leaking.
> Event was launched with much fanfare that it didn't need the PU smear that Gore-tex uses since they'd found a way of protecting the ePTFE pores from oil contamination that caused a breach of Gen I (no PU) Gore-tex.
NeoShell is also an air perm fabric without that PU layer, as is the new Goretex Pro as I understand it all. It's interesting that Marmot for example are talking up the the air permeable nature of the new Gore Pro as making the jackets more comfortable vimeo.com/85906208 It strikes me that what they are really saying is what some of us have been discussing about NeoShell - it's not fully windproof therefore it should breath better.
But it will be interesting to see if NeoShell and Gore Pro face the same contamination and leakage problems that people seem to be consistently reporting with eVent.
I've been getting some wet patches under shoulder straps for example whilst using the Jöttnar NeoShell jacket in horrible weather so have been thinking about this. Currently I'm inclined to think its sweat failing to breath in those areas rather than water coming through from the outside, but I did wonder if pressure (on the outside) could do the same as contamination and allow leaking.
In reply to TobyA:
I'm not sure how true that is about Goretex Pro. I watched the video but that is the only reference I can find to air permeability of Pro. In fact Goretex don't say anything about this in their workbook or other literature.
I took out the new proshell this weekend, in some horrendous weather, and didn't notice any air permeability (like I did with Neoshell in less extreme conditions).
It doesn't breath as well as active shell, but it was dry inside after a day of normal hillwalking in relentless wind, rain and sleet. I only had a Helly Dry baselayer top under it, temps were around 1-2 degrees, and winds and sleet were gusting 60-90 mph. Pretty sure I'd have felt any air permeability! I've also not noticed any dampness under the shoulders or back, with 45 and 80 litre packs.
Very impressed with it after four days of mixed use, all in varying strengths of wind and rain or sleet though. I've bought this one so will get to see how it stands up to long-term use!
> NeoShell is also an air perm fabric without that PU layer, as is the new Goretex Pro as I understand it all.
I'm not sure how true that is about Goretex Pro. I watched the video but that is the only reference I can find to air permeability of Pro. In fact Goretex don't say anything about this in their workbook or other literature.
I took out the new proshell this weekend, in some horrendous weather, and didn't notice any air permeability (like I did with Neoshell in less extreme conditions).
It doesn't breath as well as active shell, but it was dry inside after a day of normal hillwalking in relentless wind, rain and sleet. I only had a Helly Dry baselayer top under it, temps were around 1-2 degrees, and winds and sleet were gusting 60-90 mph. Pretty sure I'd have felt any air permeability! I've also not noticed any dampness under the shoulders or back, with 45 and 80 litre packs.
Very impressed with it after four days of mixed use, all in varying strengths of wind and rain or sleet though. I've bought this one so will get to see how it stands up to long-term use!
Post edited at 12:10
In reply to Martin1978:
try holding up the membrane to the light inside out. It was pretty obvious why my 5 year old event jacket was leaking when I did this, it had worn through in a few places. That said I bought another event jacket because it was half the price of a similar gore product and I figure I don't get any more years of full waterproofness out of goretext products if I actually climb in them (as rock abrasion takes its toll).
try holding up the membrane to the light inside out. It was pretty obvious why my 5 year old event jacket was leaking when I did this, it had worn through in a few places. That said I bought another event jacket because it was half the price of a similar gore product and I figure I don't get any more years of full waterproofness out of goretext products if I actually climb in them (as rock abrasion takes its toll).
In reply to captain paranoia:
ps. the revised instructions aren't new; I dug out an OM thread from 2005 where Julie Greengrass (then Montane's designer) posted the revised instructions, in response to the same problem. Last post on this page:
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/gear/rab-jacket/9681.html
I'd recommend a soap wash after the detergent, rather than simply rinsing twice.
ps. the revised instructions aren't new; I dug out an OM thread from 2005 where Julie Greengrass (then Montane's designer) posted the revised instructions, in response to the same problem. Last post on this page:
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/gear/rab-jacket/9681.html
I'd recommend a soap wash after the detergent, rather than simply rinsing twice.
In reply to Martin1978:
Here's a copy of Montane's care instructions for those interested:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=DF178194116A45B2%211201
I'll be giving mine another clean following these instructions, so hope that works. If it does I'll be happy with eVent again!
Here's a copy of Montane's care instructions for those interested:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=DF178194116A45B2%211201
I'll be giving mine another clean following these instructions, so hope that works. If it does I'll be happy with eVent again!
In reply to Martin1978:
Gore are being incredibly confusing with their lack of imagination in names but "Proshell" is different from "Pro" if I am remembering this all correctly. Proshell was their name for their best grade of membrane up to last year, a development on XCR, but they all used the PU treatment on the membrane. This years 'big development' according to some articles I read is this new PU-less version "Pro". Confused yet?
> I'm not sure how true that is about Goretex Pro. I watched the video but that is the only reference I can find to air permeability of Pro. In fact Goretex don't say anything about this in their workbook or other literature.
> I took out the new proshell this weekend,
Gore are being incredibly confusing with their lack of imagination in names but "Proshell" is different from "Pro" if I am remembering this all correctly. Proshell was their name for their best grade of membrane up to last year, a development on XCR, but they all used the PU treatment on the membrane. This years 'big development' according to some articles I read is this new PU-less version "Pro". Confused yet?
In reply to TobyA:
Yeah, it is stupidly confusing. I meant Pro (rather than proshell). This is the jacket: http://www.mountainequipment.co.uk/the_gear/clothing/waterproof/lhotse_jack...
Who knows what they've got in the pipeline though!
Yeah, it is stupidly confusing. I meant Pro (rather than proshell). This is the jacket: http://www.mountainequipment.co.uk/the_gear/clothing/waterproof/lhotse_jack...
Who knows what they've got in the pipeline though!
In reply to Martin1978:
I've had a Rab eVent jacket for 5 years and it's still fine. Used it for middle bits of summers in Scotland, Alpine/Pyrenean mountaineering and some winter routes, about 350 days roughly. Still keeps me dry and I like the lightness but go for Paramo when it's colder. Used to trash Goretex jackets completely in about 3 years when I had them (although it's not quite a fair comparison as I hadn't discovered Paramo then so used them all year, so maybe 650 days use). Will happily buy another eVent jacket for summer and mountaineering when this one gives up, although Paramo still gets my vote, at least for walking/scrambling use (2000 days use and still great).
I've had a Rab eVent jacket for 5 years and it's still fine. Used it for middle bits of summers in Scotland, Alpine/Pyrenean mountaineering and some winter routes, about 350 days roughly. Still keeps me dry and I like the lightness but go for Paramo when it's colder. Used to trash Goretex jackets completely in about 3 years when I had them (although it's not quite a fair comparison as I hadn't discovered Paramo then so used them all year, so maybe 650 days use). Will happily buy another eVent jacket for summer and mountaineering when this one gives up, although Paramo still gets my vote, at least for walking/scrambling use (2000 days use and still great).
In reply to Martin1978:
I appreciate the concern but after £1000's spent on top end jackets over the years I buy the last season special offer in eye catching colours. It's just a layer in the system and probably not that valuable in this climate. Being wet isn't a problem, being wet and cold is. If it lasts longer than a year bonus.
D
I appreciate the concern but after £1000's spent on top end jackets over the years I buy the last season special offer in eye catching colours. It's just a layer in the system and probably not that valuable in this climate. Being wet isn't a problem, being wet and cold is. If it lasts longer than a year bonus.
D
In reply to Dauphin:
>...probably not that valuable in this climate. Being wet isn't a problem, being wet and cold is. If it lasts longer than a year bonus.
Not sure which climate you are in! Being wet usually leads to being cold.
Even on sale I think a year is just wasteful, and I hate shopping/spending money, so like to do it as little as possible!
>...probably not that valuable in this climate. Being wet isn't a problem, being wet and cold is. If it lasts longer than a year bonus.
Not sure which climate you are in! Being wet usually leads to being cold.
Even on sale I think a year is just wasteful, and I hate shopping/spending money, so like to do it as little as possible!
In reply to Martin1978:
I've owned two eVent products. One jacket, one pair of trousers. They both failed badly within two years of purchase, despite only moderate use and correct care. I wont be spending money on any more of the stuff, simples.
I've owned two eVent products. One jacket, one pair of trousers. They both failed badly within two years of purchase, despite only moderate use and correct care. I wont be spending money on any more of the stuff, simples.
In reply to Martin1978:
I tried all the washing stuff with tec wash and waterproofer that Montane sent me, after a lot of hassle. When that didnt work they sent me instructions on ironing the jacket. Never worked from day one. I was then told that event is for light and fast, but in my brain it doesnt make sense how if you re working faster and creating more heat and vapour, the material performs better than when youre just strolling around town getting drenched. Btw i love the prism & vapour rise.
I tried all the washing stuff with tec wash and waterproofer that Montane sent me, after a lot of hassle. When that didnt work they sent me instructions on ironing the jacket. Never worked from day one. I was then told that event is for light and fast, but in my brain it doesnt make sense how if you re working faster and creating more heat and vapour, the material performs better than when youre just strolling around town getting drenched. Btw i love the prism & vapour rise.
In reply to Martin1978:
It would be interesting to know if threads like this are acknowledge by brands, and how much it affects the long term production of such products. Esp relatively small companies like Rab - anyone from Rab out there who is looking on with keen interest and furthermore planning to change your waterproof membrane contract on the basis of such feedback?
I'm guessing the producer is locked into a contract for a long period, as it's not new that in the majority people perceive eVent to be uterly pump(?).
I naively hope they don't blindly keep producing such products simply because people keep buying them.
It would be interesting to know if threads like this are acknowledge by brands, and how much it affects the long term production of such products. Esp relatively small companies like Rab - anyone from Rab out there who is looking on with keen interest and furthermore planning to change your waterproof membrane contract on the basis of such feedback?
I'm guessing the producer is locked into a contract for a long period, as it's not new that in the majority people perceive eVent to be uterly pump(?).
I naively hope they don't blindly keep producing such products simply because people keep buying them.
In reply to Martin1978:
Is this a trades description act issue? Knowing full well that what you sell doesn't achieve its basic purpose, but convincing people it does (essentially lying) and taking their money.
Is this a trades description act issue? Knowing full well that what you sell doesn't achieve its basic purpose, but convincing people it does (essentially lying) and taking their money.
In reply to pff:
Ironing or wash-in solutions usually reactivate DWR, not the functionality of the membrane. If membrane is clogged with mud or whatever it is, washing would help to improve breathability, not the waterproofness.
So, there are two ways to create waterproof garment. The first is DWR, durable water repellent which does not make garment waterproof, but protects outer layer of wetting out. The second thing is membrane, which is more important to keep yourself dry.
Ironing or wash-in solutions usually reactivate DWR, not the functionality of the membrane. If membrane is clogged with mud or whatever it is, washing would help to improve breathability, not the waterproofness.
So, there are two ways to create waterproof garment. The first is DWR, durable water repellent which does not make garment waterproof, but protects outer layer of wetting out. The second thing is membrane, which is more important to keep yourself dry.
In reply to Merlin:
I don't think event is 'utterly pump'. It wears through a bit faster from stuff like having a rucksack on and de laminates a little easier. However I don't think the puncture resistance is any different and it breathes better than Goretex (well atleast it used to). I haven't found Goretex lasts any better if you actually climb in the garments yet it costs twice as much. I'd prefer to get a new event garment every 3-5 years than spend twice as much and try and make a goretex garment last 6-10 years when at around 5 years it will be patched in multiple places and will have tonnes of micro holes I'll never find!
I prefer to use stretchy soft shells more now a days. Much more abrasion / puncture resistant, wind proof enough for most conditions, and overall I stay drier and therefore warmer.
I don't think event is 'utterly pump'. It wears through a bit faster from stuff like having a rucksack on and de laminates a little easier. However I don't think the puncture resistance is any different and it breathes better than Goretex (well atleast it used to). I haven't found Goretex lasts any better if you actually climb in the garments yet it costs twice as much. I'd prefer to get a new event garment every 3-5 years than spend twice as much and try and make a goretex garment last 6-10 years when at around 5 years it will be patched in multiple places and will have tonnes of micro holes I'll never find!
I prefer to use stretchy soft shells more now a days. Much more abrasion / puncture resistant, wind proof enough for most conditions, and overall I stay drier and therefore warmer.
Post edited at 11:36
In reply to PPP:
"The second thing is membrane, which is more important to keep yourself dry."
Remember that if the DWR isn't working and the outer fabric wets out the breathability of the garment drops considerably too and that you'll likely get wet from sweat. It's easy to confuse the two issues as they have similar symptoms.
"The second thing is membrane, which is more important to keep yourself dry."
Remember that if the DWR isn't working and the outer fabric wets out the breathability of the garment drops considerably too and that you'll likely get wet from sweat. It's easy to confuse the two issues as they have similar symptoms.
In reply to fionn:
In that case I would moan then! I think people do often have unrealistic assumptions that they should stay bone dry after hours of hiking in yucky weather - but that's not your case by the sounds of it. Not working at all after two years sounds like a faulty fabric and it would seem fair for the manufacturers to check that.
In that case I would moan then! I think people do often have unrealistic assumptions that they should stay bone dry after hours of hiking in yucky weather - but that's not your case by the sounds of it. Not working at all after two years sounds like a faulty fabric and it would seem fair for the manufacturers to check that.
In reply to Merlin:
Probably not, the material will conform to the relevant standards. (For what it's worth, Mrs Ridge's 5 year old event jacket is fine, but getting worn now).
It's worth remembering that the earliest of the 10,000 different versions of Goretex didn't work too well either, and the outdoor clothing industry is swimming in sales and marketing hype.
> Is this a trades description act issue? Knowing full well that what you sell doesn't achieve its basic purpose, but convincing people it does (essentially lying) and taking their money.
Probably not, the material will conform to the relevant standards. (For what it's worth, Mrs Ridge's 5 year old event jacket is fine, but getting worn now).
It's worth remembering that the earliest of the 10,000 different versions of Goretex didn't work too well either, and the outdoor clothing industry is swimming in sales and marketing hype.
In reply to PPP:
If the pores of the membrane are contaminated with oil, they attract dirt, and the dirt pulls water through the membrane by osmotic action. That is the issue that affected Gen I Gore-tex, resulting in the PU smear to protect the ePTFE pores, and which has also affected eVent.
So, not only does a dirty membrane cause the membrane to leak, it compromises breathability in the affected area, causing condensation, which only makes the situation worse...
> If membrane is clogged with mud or whatever it is, washing would help to improve breathability, not the waterproofness.
If the pores of the membrane are contaminated with oil, they attract dirt, and the dirt pulls water through the membrane by osmotic action. That is the issue that affected Gen I Gore-tex, resulting in the PU smear to protect the ePTFE pores, and which has also affected eVent.
So, not only does a dirty membrane cause the membrane to leak, it compromises breathability in the affected area, causing condensation, which only makes the situation worse...
In reply to Merlin:
Serious mountaineers and explorers have depended on our extreme weather mitts, gloves and hats for years. Climbers and backcountry skiers have relied on our bombproof mountaineering packs for over ten years.
Dear GraniteGear
Whilst out rambling in Helmand I was extremely disappointed with the ballistic protection proved by your equipment...
Serious mountaineers and explorers have depended on our extreme weather mitts, gloves and hats for years. Climbers and backcountry skiers have relied on our bombproof mountaineering packs for over ten years.
Dear GraniteGear
Whilst out rambling in Helmand I was extremely disappointed with the ballistic protection proved by your equipment...
In reply to Martin1978:
Happy i read this thread as have been shopping for a replacement for my Event jacket, a latok alpine, which had been brilliant but same problems re. rewaterproofing and being shite in the rain.
Was tempted just to get another at the bargain price of £145. Will probably go for some goretex effort now at nearer teh £250 mark and hope it lasts longer.
Happy i read this thread as have been shopping for a replacement for my Event jacket, a latok alpine, which had been brilliant but same problems re. rewaterproofing and being shite in the rain.
Was tempted just to get another at the bargain price of £145. Will probably go for some goretex effort now at nearer teh £250 mark and hope it lasts longer.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I know, but I meant "more important" rather than "the most important". I have an old jacket with *-tex membrane (the manufacturer seems to be from Eastern Europe, not much information about the membrane or the manufacturer itself) which wets out a lot, but it never let any water in. I guess it is still better to sweat more rather than have water in. Especially if you do not wear cotton shirt.
I know, but I meant "more important" rather than "the most important". I have an old jacket with *-tex membrane (the manufacturer seems to be from Eastern Europe, not much information about the membrane or the manufacturer itself) which wets out a lot, but it never let any water in. I guess it is still better to sweat more rather than have water in. Especially if you do not wear cotton shirt.
In reply to PPP:
Unless the membrane has a fairly obvious hole in it I think it can be pretty hard to tell if you are getting wet from the inside or the outside. Especially if the membrane has quite a lot of very small holes.
Unless the membrane has a fairly obvious hole in it I think it can be pretty hard to tell if you are getting wet from the inside or the outside. Especially if the membrane has quite a lot of very small holes.
Post edited at 15:32
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Well, if you have more than one layer under the jacket, it's not difficult to tell what's happening. For example, either your shirt gets wet first (if the jacket stopped breathing) or your fleece gets wet first (if the jacket leaks).
Also, it would be easy to tell what's happening in dry weather.
Well, if you have more than one layer under the jacket, it's not difficult to tell what's happening. For example, either your shirt gets wet first (if the jacket stopped breathing) or your fleece gets wet first (if the jacket leaks).
Also, it would be easy to tell what's happening in dry weather.
In reply to PPP:
I generally wear a polyester / polyproperlene baselayer adding a fleece or two in winter. With layers like this which don't soak up water its hard to tell where the water originated. I also find water tends to bead up inside the jacket on the membrane from sweat so it wouldn't be expected that water would only be found on layers against the skin.
In dry weather I don't wear a water proof jacket and its unlikely the outer fabric would be wetted out which as mentioned is one factor which can significantly decrease the breath ability of a jacket making it hard to tell how the user is getting wet. Its also feasible when it is raining and the jacket is wetting out on the face fabric that its leaking AND less breathable.
> "Well, if you have more than one layer under the jacket, it's not difficult to tell what's happening. For example, either your shirt gets wet first (if the jacket stopped breathing) or your fleece gets wet first (if the jacket leaks). "
I generally wear a polyester / polyproperlene baselayer adding a fleece or two in winter. With layers like this which don't soak up water its hard to tell where the water originated. I also find water tends to bead up inside the jacket on the membrane from sweat so it wouldn't be expected that water would only be found on layers against the skin.
> "Also, it would be easy to tell what's happening in dry weather."
In dry weather I don't wear a water proof jacket and its unlikely the outer fabric would be wetted out which as mentioned is one factor which can significantly decrease the breath ability of a jacket making it hard to tell how the user is getting wet. Its also feasible when it is raining and the jacket is wetting out on the face fabric that its leaking AND less breathable.
Post edited at 16:04
In reply to Ridge:
D'ya know I recently looked up why Ballistic Nylon is called ballistic nylon? Turns out WWII bomber crew flak jackets were made out it, but they were admittedly of little use against anything more direct.
D'ya know I recently looked up why Ballistic Nylon is called ballistic nylon? Turns out WWII bomber crew flak jackets were made out it, but they were admittedly of little use against anything more direct.
In reply to Martin1978:
Despite the above washing, re-proofing, and ironing suggestions I've been out again tonight and they're still leaking. Ok, it is pretty extreme conditions, and I was only out for 2.5hrs, but my thermal trousers were wet when I got home and my thermal top was dry. That says enough for me. The worst of it is, my boots are getting wet inside because of it
On the plus side, the Goretex Pro jacket is awesome, and has taken 5 days of wind and rain that you can hardly stand up in! I'll be getting some Pro trousers as soon as I can afford to. I know that not everyone has the same needs, but I really need to be able to rely on my kit in the worst conditions.
Despite the above washing, re-proofing, and ironing suggestions I've been out again tonight and they're still leaking. Ok, it is pretty extreme conditions, and I was only out for 2.5hrs, but my thermal trousers were wet when I got home and my thermal top was dry. That says enough for me. The worst of it is, my boots are getting wet inside because of it
On the plus side, the Goretex Pro jacket is awesome, and has taken 5 days of wind and rain that you can hardly stand up in! I'll be getting some Pro trousers as soon as I can afford to. I know that not everyone has the same needs, but I really need to be able to rely on my kit in the worst conditions.
In reply to Martin1978:
I was going to chip in to this thread earlier, but read the updated instructions for washing and thought I'd give it a try on my 18 month old Rab Event jacket before commenting...
...wore it out today and had to turn around and head back to the car after 2 hours because my inner layers were absolutely sodden. Didn't try the Event overtrousers I have, but they've never given particularly stellar performance.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with Event - I'm going to see if I can pick up a Pro Shell jacket before they disappear to be replaced by the Pu-less Pro.
I was going to chip in to this thread earlier, but read the updated instructions for washing and thought I'd give it a try on my 18 month old Rab Event jacket before commenting...
...wore it out today and had to turn around and head back to the car after 2 hours because my inner layers were absolutely sodden. Didn't try the Event overtrousers I have, but they've never given particularly stellar performance.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with Event - I'm going to see if I can pick up a Pro Shell jacket before they disappear to be replaced by the Pu-less Pro.
I've had same problem,
Soaking wet legs through event trousers 20 mins into a day out. They're ok for winter climbing if its properly cold (ie as a wind proof layer) I understand the problems with pores blocking etc but don't really want a waterproof that needs washing after every use
Soaking wet legs through event trousers 20 mins into a day out. They're ok for winter climbing if its properly cold (ie as a wind proof layer) I understand the problems with pores blocking etc but don't really want a waterproof that needs washing after every use
In reply to Martin1978:
This thread makes for interesting reading. I too had an eVent jacket that gave up after about 3 years and is now shower-proof at best. I previously sent it back to the manufacturer and they basically said it was worn out. Holding my jacket up to the light revealed loads of little holes - not ideal. Chemical contamination would probably not cause this but could still cause leaking.
If you own an eVent jacket then hang onto the receipt and in my mind companies should replace it if it fails within its warranty period. I'm not sure what lifetime people expect from their waterproof kit, but I want a minimum of 5 years 'frontline' use (ie completely 100% reliable for that period in all weathers in the mountains, without me having to treat it like it's made of tissue paper) from my waterproofs, and preferably more. I don't think a £200 jacket should fail after a few years. My current Arc'teryx ProShell jacket (40 and 80 denier) is 'as new' but for one scuff after 5 years of hard use and I want to get 10 years out of that.
I too hope Gore have done their homework on Pro. Pro is basically two PTFE membranes on top of each other from what I can tell, giving greater breathability than before but I think the chemical resistance (if not the durability) may be affected. Gore do a huge amount of lab testing but it's not an easy thing to do lab tests on - you need someone to sweat into a jacket and cover it with mud and dirt for 5 years before you can be sure your new membrane is all good. We will see.
This thread makes for interesting reading. I too had an eVent jacket that gave up after about 3 years and is now shower-proof at best. I previously sent it back to the manufacturer and they basically said it was worn out. Holding my jacket up to the light revealed loads of little holes - not ideal. Chemical contamination would probably not cause this but could still cause leaking.
If you own an eVent jacket then hang onto the receipt and in my mind companies should replace it if it fails within its warranty period. I'm not sure what lifetime people expect from their waterproof kit, but I want a minimum of 5 years 'frontline' use (ie completely 100% reliable for that period in all weathers in the mountains, without me having to treat it like it's made of tissue paper) from my waterproofs, and preferably more. I don't think a £200 jacket should fail after a few years. My current Arc'teryx ProShell jacket (40 and 80 denier) is 'as new' but for one scuff after 5 years of hard use and I want to get 10 years out of that.
I too hope Gore have done their homework on Pro. Pro is basically two PTFE membranes on top of each other from what I can tell, giving greater breathability than before but I think the chemical resistance (if not the durability) may be affected. Gore do a huge amount of lab testing but it's not an easy thing to do lab tests on - you need someone to sweat into a jacket and cover it with mud and dirt for 5 years before you can be sure your new membrane is all good. We will see.
In reply to Mr Fuller:
I must say none of my goretex trousers or jackets last anything like 10 years if used intensively! The trousers I buy in particular are very hard wearing 3 layer goretex. Normally after about 3-4 years use my goretex trousers are well patched up and have many more much smaller holes I'll never find and are delamininating in various places!
Now I use mostly stretchy soft shell I only quite rarely wear waterproofs and I'm finding they last a LOT longer (as do the stretchy soft shells as compared to hard shells)
I must say none of my goretex trousers or jackets last anything like 10 years if used intensively! The trousers I buy in particular are very hard wearing 3 layer goretex. Normally after about 3-4 years use my goretex trousers are well patched up and have many more much smaller holes I'll never find and are delamininating in various places!
Now I use mostly stretchy soft shell I only quite rarely wear waterproofs and I'm finding they last a LOT longer (as do the stretchy soft shells as compared to hard shells)
Post edited at 14:09
In reply to Martin1978:
Well mine are going back for inspection, so will be interesting to see what they say.
Not sure why anyone would have wanted to be out in anything other than a hard shell this past week, but each to their own I guess!!
Well mine are going back for inspection, so will be interesting to see what they say.
Not sure why anyone would have wanted to be out in anything other than a hard shell this past week, but each to their own I guess!!
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Yeah, not wearing your waterproof definitely makes it last longer! I will normally wear a waterproof only when it's really raining and a softshell will easily outlast most waterproofs. In winter I normally go for membrane softshell but this winter I've been out now for 11 days and have worn my waterproof pretty much car-to-car every single day... Still waiting to see something. Anything. Please...
Yeah, not wearing your waterproof definitely makes it last longer! I will normally wear a waterproof only when it's really raining and a softshell will easily outlast most waterproofs. In winter I normally go for membrane softshell but this winter I've been out now for 11 days and have worn my waterproof pretty much car-to-car every single day... Still waiting to see something. Anything. Please...
In reply to Mr Fuller:
I've got the rab latok alpine (event). When I carry it I don't generally plan to wear it very often when winter climbing anymore, so I figured I could get away with something a lot lighter but still relatively hard wearing. Only cost £150 and I think I'll get over 5 years out of it at the present rate of use.
I've got the rab latok alpine (event). When I carry it I don't generally plan to wear it very often when winter climbing anymore, so I figured I could get away with something a lot lighter but still relatively hard wearing. Only cost £150 and I think I'll get over 5 years out of it at the present rate of use.
In reply to Neil Pratt:
I got 5 years out of my last rab event jacket and I wore that a lot, I've had this one 18 months but wear it much less frequently and wore it in the rain over xmas - no leaking at all and jacket beads up water very well.
I wash mine whenever I think I will have sweated in it much, but with pure soap liquid, this system has worked well for me on my event jackets.
Stevo
I got 5 years out of my last rab event jacket and I wore that a lot, I've had this one 18 months but wear it much less frequently and wore it in the rain over xmas - no leaking at all and jacket beads up water very well.
I wash mine whenever I think I will have sweated in it much, but with pure soap liquid, this system has worked well for me on my event jackets.
Stevo
In reply to Martin1978:
It says everythung to me in the way they deal with these complaints. When I sent my jacket back to Montane to check it out, they sent me instructions for ironing and a bottle of wash rather than do the job there and then. Like any company im sure theres been a lot of investment in this product but their main selling point is that they are not goretex. And peoplelooking tobuy new new jackets usually look for some edge over what they have already. It just said it all to me that they couldnt clean the jacket for me and stand over the results. Do a google for event and jackets, id say a lot of results come to ukc.
It says everythung to me in the way they deal with these complaints. When I sent my jacket back to Montane to check it out, they sent me instructions for ironing and a bottle of wash rather than do the job there and then. Like any company im sure theres been a lot of investment in this product but their main selling point is that they are not goretex. And peoplelooking tobuy new new jackets usually look for some edge over what they have already. It just said it all to me that they couldnt clean the jacket for me and stand over the results. Do a google for event and jackets, id say a lot of results come to ukc.
In reply to pff:
Well I've had a bit of a different experience. Come home from the Lakes to a nice new pair of trousers from Montane Their service was excellent in my case, very quick and understanding. Second time I've had to return something (a rucksack was the first) and both times I've found them very helpful and quick to replace the items.
Whilst I wouldn't buy eVent in the future, I would buy from Montane without hesitation.
Well I've had a bit of a different experience. Come home from the Lakes to a nice new pair of trousers from Montane Their service was excellent in my case, very quick and understanding. Second time I've had to return something (a rucksack was the first) and both times I've found them very helpful and quick to replace the items.
Whilst I wouldn't buy eVent in the future, I would buy from Montane without hesitation.
In reply to Martin1978:
Can't say I've had any problems with my Montane Venture after heavy use for I think 4 years. Yes it has wetted out on insanely wet days but then again, anything would. Aside from that it's been resilient and fine. Slight wetting out occurs around the cuffs at times. I've washed and re-proofed regularly so maybe that's helped? Tempted by Gore Tex Pro or even Neoshell for the next jacket but would be happy with event too.
Can't say I've had any problems with my Montane Venture after heavy use for I think 4 years. Yes it has wetted out on insanely wet days but then again, anything would. Aside from that it's been resilient and fine. Slight wetting out occurs around the cuffs at times. I've washed and re-proofed regularly so maybe that's helped? Tempted by Gore Tex Pro or even Neoshell for the next jacket but would be happy with event too.
In reply to Martin1978:
Im glad you felt that you got great and quick service and that you got a replacement.
I got a super fly xt sent to me for all the hassle over 3years, brand new direct from Montane, but that wetted itself out within a week of getting it. But having said all that I was probably unlucky in the 2 that I got, there seems to be lots of good comments about their waterproofness.
Im glad you felt that you got great and quick service and that you got a replacement.
I got a super fly xt sent to me for all the hassle over 3years, brand new direct from Montane, but that wetted itself out within a week of getting it. But having said all that I was probably unlucky in the 2 that I got, there seems to be lots of good comments about their waterproofness.
In reply to Martin1978:
Worst bloody stuff I've ever had the misfortune to buy. Your experience seems very similar to mine; I'd never choose a jacket using this material again (and shame on Rab for using it).
Worst bloody stuff I've ever had the misfortune to buy. Your experience seems very similar to mine; I'd never choose a jacket using this material again (and shame on Rab for using it).
In reply to Martin1978:
I bought an Event jacket about a year ago, which I've only needed to wear a few times. The other day I was out in pretty wet weather, and I noticed that my elbows were damp. I was using poles so I'm hoping it had come in at the wrists rather than through the jacket, although I've not noticed it with other jackets.
I find the breathability really good, I tended to overheat in Goretex and this is much better. I'll be keeping an eye on the proofing though.
I bought an Event jacket about a year ago, which I've only needed to wear a few times. The other day I was out in pretty wet weather, and I noticed that my elbows were damp. I was using poles so I'm hoping it had come in at the wrists rather than through the jacket, although I've not noticed it with other jackets.
I find the breathability really good, I tended to overheat in Goretex and this is much better. I'll be keeping an eye on the proofing though.
Shame this thread was not about earlier, recently bought the rab alpine latok jacket to replace the lowe alpine triple ceraminc as it was due for retirement.
Looked at other jackets but through they were too expensive so went for e-vent.
will see how it copes this summer
Looked at other jackets but through they were too expensive so went for e-vent.
will see how it copes this summer
In reply to Howard J + Chesher cat:
I wouldn't worry too much. In your case Howard I am fairly sure that will be the poles. Chesher cat, I think the general consensus is it is really good for a few years but the problem is long-term durability. I wouldn't worry about it failing you this summer.
I wouldn't worry too much. In your case Howard I am fairly sure that will be the poles. Chesher cat, I think the general consensus is it is really good for a few years but the problem is long-term durability. I wouldn't worry about it failing you this summer.
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