/ Neoshell v GTX Pro
So I just bought a new GTX Pro jacket from M E and now I notice that they do an almost identical jacket in Neoshell but it's stretchy and it's a fair bit lighter as well. Have I made that right choice here for Scotland and what the hell is GTX Pro anyway? I threw the tags.
Also massive thumbs up to M E for the cut of their new stuff, the best fit for tall skinny people bar none.
I have one too, a Tupilak. Brilliant fit isn't it? I've climbed a lot in mine and the comfort and performance is outstanding.
Goretex Pro is meant to be tougher and more waterproof than the Neoshell jacket, but less breathable. It certainly is the latter, as to whether it is tougher depends more on the outer layer to which the membrane is bonded. I've already scuffed and put a tiny hole in the chest pocket of my Tupilak where the fabric got caught between a phone and a rock as I thrutched my way upwards so it ain't as tough as ME make out, though I'm determined to rock the gnarly look!! Plenty of reports on here of Neoshell jackets being even more flimsy and fragile however.
Seems to me the right implementation of Neoshell would be as backer to a scuff resistant softshell, like the Marmot Nabu, but with ME's new cut. As far as I can tell, no such garment exists. Come on manufacturers, are you reading this?
Can't answer any of your question but thanks for the tip on the cut of M E kit, will check their stuff out.
Neoshell isn't really designed for scottish winter imo and you made the right choice with GTX pro. Waterproof fabrics will always be a compromise between breathability, water resistance and durability. It's easy to make a waterproof fabric, easy to make a breathable fabric and easy to make a robust fabric. All three in one jacket? Nope! GTX pro is a good compromise in my opinion, neoshell is more breathable and lighter.
I've had an ME morpheus for about 5 years now and it's still a bomb proof fabric, I believe they use an updated version of GTX pro now, which is supposed to be more breathable. The rest of the jacket isn't quite so robust unfortunately and it's a pretty baggy untailored fit, but maybe they've improved on these things.
And BnB said
But this simply isn't true. NeoShell is the membrane, that like Goretex can be added to different face fabrics. I've tested three NeoShell jackets non of which are flimsy or fragile - indeed the two Marmot ones are rather heavy http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=4425 http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=5883 and seem completely bombproof. The Jöttnar Neoshell jacket and troos are also seemingly tough although that fabric is much closer in feel to classic high quality versions of goretex like Arcteryx use; the Marmot ones are stretchy softshell-like material.
So it's just like goretex - you can buy super light flimsy neoshell jackets and you can buy it stuck to uber-tough codura fabrics. Its up to the consumer what they want.
I was ice climbing earlier today in Jöttnar kit - it was basically raining all day and the big icefalls were p*ssing water on us. I stayed nice and dry inside so my experience as a user is that it is no less waterproof than goretex proshell - (haven't tried anything made of Goretex Pro yet though, and they are doing something different with the new Pro which will make it more like Neoshell as I understand it).
Steady on Toby :-) I was only comparing the two ME jackets, as per the OP's original question. And I think my post goes on to say that the toughness depends on the outer to which the membrane is bonded, just as you assert.
Have you tried on one of the new cut ME jackets? What a superb fit (for a certain body type, anyway)
Yup, it's these two jackets;
Even the same colours, I'm assuming they fit the same as, having looked now, the Centurion is actually impossible to get in anything except XL. It's quite a difference in weight for two identical jackets, 50g, and it must be all from the fabric.
What makes you say that Neoshell isn't designed for Scottish winter? I have been using the Rab Neoshell for 3 seasons in Scottish winter and its excellent.
Ok, so what's the difference between Neoshell and Power Shield Pro then? Is Neoshell just Power Shield Pro with less .. err.. holes?
I currently part time at a local outdoor shop to help with funds for uni and trips etc.
We have the new Morpheus jacket in our shop and they changed the design now so it uses only gore - tex performance, they said they re - designed it so it was more aimed at hill-walkers and less serious mountaineers, still a great jacket though.
There likely is a difference between the durability of the membranes too.
So help me decide, I have the two identical (almost identical that is) jacket side by side and can't decide which to keep.
I know that when Power Shield Pro gets overwhelmed it's total, i.e. you get drenched, but really how often does that happen, I did a shoe season in Scotland in soft shell in 2008 and survived and how much better is Neoshell. The GTX Pro does have the crisp packet feel to it but it's not that bad.
I've had it from the horse's mouth that they both use the same membrane - the difference being that in Neo it's taped. Your Powershield Pro is made up of waterproof panels, but is not waterproof if you know what I mean?
I had the same info but that the Power shield Pro was more breathable. I also heard that PS Pro was being dropped as too expensive to produce which would make sense if it was the same but aimed at a lower price point. That last bit isn't confirmed though.
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